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Posted: 11/27/2007 6:20:40 PM EDT
I always had the impression it was the Chief Petty Officer rank of the Navy. Their authority is god-like over their sections, and they are often called upon by the senior officer staff to positions of great responsibility for the day-to-day AND long term operations of the unit. They are often feared and sometimes loathed by their fellow Petty Officers and almost universally by their Seamen - and for good cause. Chief can have your ass in a sling in a New York Minute. I was afraid of Chiefs, and I was an Ensign.

An argument could be made for the Master Sergeant rank in the Air Force, as I have heard they they tend to carry out duties and responsibilities given to O-4/5 level officers. Pop was an Air Force Officer who came up through the enlisted ranks. He told me about the AF E-7s being tasked with heavy responsibilities.

I get the impression that the Platoon Sergeant rank in the Army gets stuck in a position of making Top happy while answering to the LT. That can't be fun.

I don't know about Gunny, although I would bet he's given a great deal more authority and decision-making capabilities than the comparable Army rank.

What do you think and why?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:22:59 PM EDT
Since we don't have CWO's, I'd say the AF, our MSgt's have tremendous pull and power.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:23:42 PM EDT
Pretty each service gives its SNCOs a high deal of authority. That is the whole point of being a Staff/Senior NCO.

I am not sure about the AF and Army, but the Marines that starts at SSgt (E6) vice E7.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:24:54 PM EDT
USMC, all E-7's bow to the Gunny.


Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:27:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 6:28:08 PM EDT by SmilingBandit]
The Navy does treat their SNCOs differently than any other branch. Hell, they wear the same uniforms as the officers.

However in the Air Force the NCOs run the aircraft maintenance world.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:30:32 PM EDT
An AF E-7 is usually a section supervisor, at least in the maint. world.

Usually the NCOIC of a shop is an E7
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MadProfessor:
An AF E-7 is usually a section supervisor, at least in the maint. world.

Usually the NCOIC of a shop is an E7


As my instructor in tech school said:
"As an E1 I was in charge of a 56 million dollar air plane. As an E5 I was in charge of a 20 thousand dollar truck. Finally as an E7 I was put in charge of a 400 dollar desk."
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:38:40 PM EDT
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 6:44:39 PM EDT by USMC6177]

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
USMC, all E-7's bow to the Gunny.




True that. What ever you do don't piss off the Company Guns or you and your whole world will be in shitopia
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:48:02 PM EDT
I'd say USMC. Not many people question the Gunny and I think its the service where E7 is the hardest to attain.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:49:14 PM EDT
I say the Marine Corps because, in general the USMC puts much, much more responsibility on it Marines. As a Corporal I was the NCOIC of a work center (71A) for over 2.5 yrs . Our line numbers showed that at a minimum a SSgt was to be the NCOIC with 1 NCO and 3 <NCOs.

We generally had SNCOs in charge of most work centers however but there were plenty of times a NCO would take over for extended periods.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:50:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 6:52:59 PM EDT by warped]
Navy, Chiefs get more respect than a Gunny or SFC, I have witnessed it with my own eyes.

I just wish other E-7s were treated the same.

Several of us had this discussion, and there were E-7s from each branch there.

Well not the Coast Guard, well you know why....

Just kidding.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:51:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 6:52:23 PM EDT by exjug]

Originally Posted By MadProfessor:
An AF E-7 is usually a section supervisor, at least in the maint. world.

Usually the NCOIC of a shop is an E7



Pretty much the same on the aviation side in the Marines. I was flight line and the Gunny was pretty much god. Plus he was the one that would get your ass of of hot water when you did something stupid or if some O was trying to bust your balls over something stupid. I still enjoy telling "Gunny" stories to my civi friends and co-workers.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:52:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Magoo6541:
I say the Marine Corps because, in general the USMC puts much, much more responsibility on it Marines. As a Corporal I was the NCOIC of a work center (71A) for over 2.5 yrs . Our line numbers showed that at a minimum a SSgt was to be the NCOIC with 1 NCO and 3 <NCOs.

We generally had SNCOs in charge of most work centers however but there were plenty of times a NCO would take over for extended periods.


Heck yeah man, I was a the night crew maint controller my last full year in..I was 'safe for flight' qualified...I was a Sergeant. Gunny's were 'supposed' to be doing my job. I had Staff Sergeants from other shops asking me what to do.

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:54:13 PM EDT
As a Scout Plt Sgt I was God. I lost half of my authority as a 1ST Sgt.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:55:23 PM EDT
Not sure, but the E-7 that has drug his personal AR down the driveway, and snapped their vagina at civilians that dont address them as Sir still has less authority than someone on this site.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:57:18 PM EDT
I don't think that any one service has a higher authority than another. As an E5, I've had the opportunity to work with the other services in many capacities and there have been awesome Senior NCOs and shitty Senior NCOs. The good ones have a backbone, a sense of humor and will always set you up to succeed.

There are other attributes, but those are the three that I believe are the most important.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:58:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
The Navy does treat their SNCOs differently than any other branch. Hell, they wear the same uniforms as the officers.

However in the Air Force the NCOs run the aircraft maintenance world.


The Maint Chief in the Navy runs the world. No Pilot in his right mind would do anything to upset the Maint Chief. Other Chiefs in the Squadron bow down to him and the Skipper brings him his morning coffee. However, The Maint Chief hides when the Squadron Gunner walks into his office to have a chat.

Jerr (Former Squadron Gunner W-3)

BTW Don't forget the Sub Service "Chief of the Boat."
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:00:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colklink:
Not sure, but the E-7 that has drug his personal AR down the driveway, and snapped their vagina at civilians that dont address them as Sir still has less authority than someone on this site.


hmm..... who could that be....
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:02:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colklink:
Not sure, but the E-7 that has drug his personal AR down the driveway, and snapped their vagina at civilians that dont address them as Sir still has less authority than someone on this site.


What's the back story on this?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:08:43 PM EDT
+1 for the Marine Gunnery Sergeant.


Think of how many young Lieutenants had their 'education' 'enhanced' or 'furthered' by a terminal Gunny, or a terminal SSgt for that matter.


That being said I don't think it is a good idea to run afoul with an E-7 from any branch.

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:28:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 7:30:02 PM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
Dang man, you know you got clout when you do a google image search for "The Gunny" and google askes if you meant "r.lee ermey".

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:30:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Dang man, you know you got clout when you do a google search for "The Gunny" and google askes if you meant "r.lee ermey".




You didn’t know? He's Chuck Norris's dad
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:31:50 PM EDT
Depends entirely on the person wearing the rank.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:33:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.


Same thing in the Navy as well, on the Tugs. Pretty much the CO for all intents and purposes.

Far as that goes, I think the US Navy NCO's get far more responsibility than their counterparts in the other services, I would assume the same for the USCG.

As an E-4 I had authority to fire the SRBOC, which was considered an act of war. Depending on the particular watch station I was standing, I had E-6/7/8 and O1/2/3 standing watch under my direction.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:34:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:38:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.


Same thing in the Navy as well, on the Tugs. Pretty much the CO for all intents and purposes.

Far as that goes, I think the US Navy NCO's get far more responsibility than their counterparts in the other services, I would assume the same for the USCG.

As an E-4 I had authority to fire the SRBOC, which was considered an act of war. Depending on the particular watch station I was standing, I had E-6/7/8 and O1/2/3 standing watch under my direction.


Yup. Many of our coxswains are E-4's. They are in charge of thier boat and everyone on it. No one else tells them what to do. That's one big thing I like about the CG, we get a whole lot of responsibility, especially at lower levels. It's pretty cool.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:39:15 PM EDT
Arent Navy CPO in charge of the whole LCAC det as well? Thats a zero free enviroment, IIRC.

They report directly to S3?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:40:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 7:41:49 PM EDT by 0699TeufelHnd]
I say "THE GUNNY" cause I'm a jarhead,

But the guy with the anchor, wearing the khakis has A LOT of power.


Bursting Bomb is "THE SHIT" though.

MGuns Teufel
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:41:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Depends entirely on the person wearing the rank.


This is probably the best answer we will see
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:49:44 PM EDT
USMC FTW!!!

I have ZERO experience with the AF, so I wont comment, but I know the traditional billet for a SFC in the army is a PltSGT. It is quite common to see a Gunnys Commanding a platoon in combat.

I have had some experience with the navy, and though they may be responsible for lots of $ worth of equipment, I never had that "Oh-Fuck...." feeling when they walked on deck like I do with a Gunny

The company Gunny is a ball buster, and there is no reason to even speak to him unless you are a Senior E5 SGT, or a SSGT. If Gunny is comming and there is enough time, HIDE!!! If not you had better have your as squared away, or youre fucked!!!

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:56:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Yup. Many of our coxswains are E-4's. They are in charge of thier boat and everyone on it. No one else tells them what to do. That's one big thing I like about the CG, we get a whole lot of responsibility, especially at lower levels. It's pretty cool.


Question: if a USCG (or Navy) NCO is the commander of a vessel at sea, do they get the title "Captain" (title, not rank)?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:57:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.


You know, I had completely forgotten about the singular responsibilities of a Coasty Chief. They are gods amongst men, as they can indeed be ship's captains in peace and in war. This puts them in actual command of 1+ large vessels.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:59:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 7:59:34 PM EDT by DD977GM2]
Chief in the Navy over everyone else. Especially a Chief Gunner's Mate.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:05:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colklink:
Not sure, but the E-7 that has drug his personal AR down the driveway, and snapped their vagina at civilians that dont address them as Sir still has less authority than someone on this site.


That douchebag was an E-7 before he put on his butterbar? WTF?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:13:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 8:15:15 PM EDT by Manic_Moran]
British Colour Sergeant.

You've never been given a proper bollocking until you've been bollocked by the best. Go one further up, and they're given sticks to beat people with.

That said, I acknowledge the USCG argument.

NTM
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:25:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 8:26:37 PM EDT by Avalon01]
Polish Starszy sierżants know how to get things done.

And sometimes that means beating you with your own rifle. Our your own magazine. After they beat you with the rifle.

Av.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:46:32 PM EDT
Hmm, tought. You have the Army's Sergeant First Class, the Marine's Gunnery Sergeant, the Air Force's Tech Sergeant and the Navy/Coast Guard have the Chief Petty Officer. Tough to decide which one's top of the pile.

But being Army, I am putting my money of my own, the SFC.

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:52:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 8:54:47 PM EDT by freerider04]

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Yup. Many of our coxswains are E-4's. They are in charge of thier boat and everyone on it. No one else tells them what to do. That's one big thing I like about the CG, we get a whole lot of responsibility, especially at lower levels. It's pretty cool.


Question: if a USCG (or Navy) NCO is the commander of a vessel at sea, do they get the title "Captain" (title, not rank)?


Not in my humble experience. I'm pretty sure that's reserved for commissioned officers. I can just imagine my old Chief/Senior Chief strangling a new guy for calling him "Captain"
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:52:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 8:55:22 PM EDT by freerider04]

Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Chief in the Navy over everyone else. Especially a Chief Gunner's Mate.


Excellent call Guns

Well at least on the second half

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 9:17:53 PM EDT
Marine Gunnery Sergeant by far.



Army, Navy just wasent for me!



Air Force is just to easy!



And as for the Roast Guard....Nuff Said!
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:02:21 PM EDT
Navy E7 or a Gunny. I've seen Air Force and Army E7's with absolutely no power being abused like little girls by their respective O2/3's. Never happen to a chief.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:08:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
USMC, all E-7's bow to the Gunny.





back in the day as a Corporal I wouldn't be afraid to piss off another service's E-7's if I knew I was right, but ALL Gunny's scared the crap out of me. And when I was on ship all parted for the Gunny in the P-way...not the same for higher ranking Navy
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:11:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.


You make a good argument, as does Tromatic. Unlike all the morons in here running their interservice rivalry cum guzzlers, as usual.

All the usual idiots talking shit about AF SNCOs really need to figure out what a production superintendent is in aircraft maintenance. The only E-7s in the military that are routinely directly responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in assets, if not billions.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:15:58 PM EDT
Gunnys are gods in the Corps


Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
USMC, all E-7's bow to the Gunny.


Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:20:30 PM EDT
Having been in both the Navy and the Air National Guard / AF, the Navy Chiefs win hands down.

In the AF, there's a lot of E7s. . . not a lot of Master Sergeants. In the Navy, there were very few E7s, but many Chief Petty Officers.

I've also seen and heard of AF MSgts. getting demoted at Article 15 hearings. I have never heard of a Chief going to Captain's Mast and getting busted.

Never underestimate the power of khakis and a couple of anchors.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:26:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kaizoku:

Originally Posted By colklink:
Not sure, but the E-7 that has drug his personal AR down the driveway, and snapped their vagina at civilians that dont address them as Sir still has less authority than someone on this site.


That douchebag was an E-7 before he put on his butterbar? WTF?
AFAIK, he was just a dumbass college kid before he converted to dumbass 2nd LT.

To answer the original question, I'm going with Marine Gunnery Sergeants.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 11:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I get the impression that the Platoon Sergeant rank in the Army gets stuck in a position of making Top happy while answering to the LT.


No such rank as Platoon Sergeant in the Army.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 1:05:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By freerider04:
Coast Guard

Where else could a young chief be put in charge of a 65' icebreaking tug with 7 men, or be in charge of a small boat station of 40 people, quite a few boats, and a huge AOR, or run an aids to navigation team responsible for maintaining the ATON in the busiest ports of the country.

That's be in charge of as in OinC (office in charge), the old man, doesn't report to anyone else at his unit, the buck stops here, style of in charge.


You make a good argument, as does Tromatic. Unlike all the morons in here running their interservice rivalry cum guzzlers, as usual.

All the usual idiots talking shit about AF SNCOs really need to figure out what a production superintendent is in aircraft maintenance. The only E-7s in the military that are routinely directly responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in assets, if not billions.


If you ask the US Government, if they would rather loose a few billion dollars or a few dozen guys in combat, they would rather loose the money. Money is not really the currency of the realm in the military, it is not the bottom line, it is human lives are the bottom line and the measure of worth. Entrusting tens if not hundreds of lives into someones hand is more a mark of trust in the military than 10 of billions of dollars.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 1:37:00 AM EDT
USMC Gunny's have been through more and have to work harder to be Gunny's than any other branch. The E7's I saw in the Army were a walking joke....only met 3 in 5 years worth a shit...OOOOORAAHH
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 2:11:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By starlidr:
Since we don't have CWO's, I'd say the AF, our MSgt's have tremendous pull and power.


+another, the USAF E-7's and above are our WO's.
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