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Posted: 9/26/2004 7:34:42 PM EST
Well I have a Enfield action and a .458 cal barrel blank. And I have the itch for a big bore. So which would you choose?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:40:50 PM EST
I would choose the Lott. It has the versatility of shooting .458 Win mag when the airlines loose your ammo and all your african ph has is .458 win mag.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:42:02 PM EST
The 458 lott can also shoot the 458 win mag rounds for cheaper and less painful practice. As a man though, lacking sense and reason, I'm still voting for the 460 Weatherby Mag. The Enfield action is about indestructable.

Over in Safari-land you might have trouble running across extra 460 Weatherby shells and even 458 Lott rounds, but the 458 WinMag shells can be found about anywhere.

Reason and wisdom says 458 Lott. Testosterone and beer says 460 Weatherby.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:43:51 PM EST
Having fired a 460 Weatherby a total of 4 times, I would definitely vote for it. 1 MOA and it set off car alarms in the parking lot. On the 3rd round, I wasn't holding it into my shoulder right, so the 4h was painful as hell. Then again, you'll only need 1 round. [
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:43:57 PM EST
Do you have to open up the receiver much?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:44:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:
The 458 lott can also shoot the 458 win mag rounds for cheaper and less painful practice. As a man though, lacking sense and reason, I'm still voting for the 460 Weatherby Mag. The Enfield action is about indestructable.

Over in Safari-land you might have trouble running across extra 460 Weatherby shells and even 458 Lott rounds, but the 458 WinMag shells can be found about anywhere.

Reason and wisdom says 458 Lott. Testosterone and beer says 460 Weatherby.



You just want to shoot the .460 when its done dont you!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:45:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:
Do you have to open up the receiver much?



Not much. But I have to make a new mag for it. The existing one is too small.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:48:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 7:49:27 PM EST by _Ugly_]

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:
The 458 lott can also shoot the 458 win mag rounds for cheaper and less painful practice. As a man though, lacking sense and reason, I'm still voting for the 460 Weatherby Mag. The Enfield action is about indestructable.

Over in Safari-land you might have trouble running across extra 460 Weatherby shells and even 458 Lott rounds, but the 458 WinMag shells can be found about anywhere.

Reason and wisdom says 458 Lott. Testosterone and beer says 460 Weatherby.



You just want to shoot the .460 when its done dont you!



Hell ya!

I would've replied sooner but I know which way you're leaning, so I was out in the garage cutting off a chunk of an old tire to duct tape over my shoulder.

After all my dirtbike bills are paid (stabilize), I still want you to build me a 416 Weatherby Mag Long Range shooter. I'm thinking a CZ550 Magnum action with some of your smithing magic should do the trick.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:49:20 PM EST
.460, because you can buy the ammo straight from Weatherby, instead of hunting for it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:51:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:
The 458 lott can also shoot the 458 win mag rounds for cheaper and less painful practice. As a man though, lacking sense and reason, I'm still voting for the 460 Weatherby Mag. The Enfield action is about indestructable.

Over in Safari-land you might have trouble running across extra 460 Weatherby shells and even 458 Lott rounds, but the 458 WinMag shells can be found about anywhere.

Reason and wisdom says 458 Lott. Testosterone and beer says 460 Weatherby.



You just want to shoot the .460 when its done dont you!



Hell ya!

I would've replied sooner but I know which way you're leaning, so I was out in the garage cutting off a chunk of an old tire to duct tape over my shoulder.

After all my dirtbike bills are paid (stabilize), I still want you to build me a 416 Weatherby Mag Long Range shooter. I'm thinking a CZ550 Magnum action with some of your smithing magic should do the trick.



Just bring your credit card! I should be checkering wood by then too!! Looks like were getting the power checkering tool.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:53:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 7:54:42 PM EST by eodtech2000]
My buddy had a .460 Wby that was braked and shot it off a bench, it knocked the wind out of him.
I shot it a few times, its not too bad in the standing position but after about 5 or so rounds you will want to call it a day on the Wby.

Want to feel something strange, shoot the .460 and then shoot a .308 right after. The .308 will feel like a bb gun.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:41:51 PM EST
Ah screw it. 460 Weatherby Magnum.

If you let me shoot it, I'll buy you many beers.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:09:19 PM EST
OK, shoot all the ballistics data you want at me but short of an elly fant my 45-70 guide gun will stop anything. I think the Weatherby guns are neat but WTF just get a 50BMG if its just a size contest.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:15:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By tnek:
OK, shoot all the ballistics data you want at me but short of an elly fant my 45-70 guide gun will stop anything. I think the Weatherby guns are neat but WTF just get a 50BMG if its just a size contest.



Im in the process of building one of those too (50 BMG). 45-70 is good, but requires a lot more modification to the action/bolt than I really want to do. Thats why... Im leaning towards one of these other two.

Looks like a tie so far... No I cant do both!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:26:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 9:28:21 PM EST by _Ugly_]
.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:27:09 PM EST
.45-70 Buffalo bore
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:36:46 AM EST
Either one kills on both ends. Personally I'd go with a .416 Rigby because I like vintage stuff.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:58:02 AM EST
Bump for day crew...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:03:37 AM EST
I know nothing about either round... So, I'd have to say just build the biggest thing you can, get a nice break put on the front, and shoot the hell out of it.

Dg84
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:10:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 6:10:32 AM EST by Fat_McNasty]
For thoses that dont know...


.458 Lott



.460 Wby Mag
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:10:49 AM EST
To me, I think the Lott would be more appropriate in the Enfield action from a custom build perspective, the cartridge is more "fitting" to the action. (I think Weatherby rounds should be in Weatherby actions, but I'm "funny" that way.)

Also, as others have mentioned, you get the versatility of shooting .458 Win Mag if you want/need to.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:06:29 AM EST
.458 Lott.

Reasons:

1. Can use .458 Win ammo.

2. Kicks hard, but still less than the .460. A lot less. You can expect 75-80 ft lbs of recoil from the Lott but over 100 ft lbs from the Wby. You will shoot the Lott better.

3. Factory ammo is now available for the Lott, and brass is cheaper than for the .460. Can be reloaded on .458 Win dies, and .460 dies are very $$$.

4. Magazine will hold more rounds. The .460 will always hold at least 1 round less.

A side note: whatever you do, don't put a muzzle brake on it. Take your recoil like a man. Brakes make too much blast.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:14:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 7:19:01 AM EST by TNFrank]
Will an Enfield action hold up to a ctg. like those two? Personally, I'd go with the new .450 Marlin. You'll get the same ballistics as a 45-70 gvt.loaded for a modern gun and you'll not have the rim to deal with so feeding will be more positive. You can load a .450 Marlin up to kill anything on this continent and most things on the others as well.


A commercial cartridge, introduced at the 2000 SHOT show, introduced as an answer to the industry's long standing 45-70 conundrum. Another in a 130 year tradition of 2.55" OAL, viable in a Marlin 336/1895 action, cartridges. A joint effort by Hornady and Marlin; development of the cartridge led by Mitch Mittelstaedt of Hornady.

Although the external upper body dimensions of the 450 match the 45-70 Gov, given the heavier brass of its 375 H&H roots the case capacity of the 450 is approx 3+ grs less than the 45-70: 73.8gr (of water, full case, 53.2gr, with a bullet seated .500", vs, 77.0 and 56.2gr, respectively). The 450 Marlin is the smallest .458" commercial rifle cartridge introduced in the last 100+ years, yet it fills an important niche. In comparison, the full case capacities of other .458's run: 450 Alaskan, 85.1 gr; 458 Win Mag, 87.4 gr; 45-90 Win, 89.9 gr. Of note: the 450's capacity is quite similar to that of the 458-284 wildcat, at 75.7gr; and the 458-350 Rem mag at 73.0gr. The largest .458's will offer 120+ grs of capacity.

Although the 450's web/rim design appears to be that of the 458 Win Mag (or its parent, the 375 H&H), in fact it is a new design by the Hornady team. Two design goals for the 450 were: that it would not chamber in a 45-70, nor a chamber of another 375 H&H belted magnum derived cartridge. Any belt design would have precluded the chambering in a 45-70; but by adding an extra wide belt, the 450 also precludes the chambering in a 7mm, 300, 338 Win Mag. As such, although others regard the 450 as a commercialized 458x2" American (by Frank Barnes), this author would rather describe the 450 as a new cartridge, designed by Mittelstaedt et al.

In a real world comparison, the 450 is a lesser cartridge than a modern load (Marlin1895) 45/70, and by as much as 500 fp's. Although the two cartridges, if chambered in same barrel length firearms, will show the Marlin generating 1-2% less muzzle energy; as of yet, and with only one counterexample so far, the Marlin is being chambered in performance compromising short barrel rifles and long barrel pistols. The nominal 45-70 barrel runs 22-26". The 1895M Marlin, the premier 450 Marlin rifle, has a 18.5" barrel, ported back to 16"+. In an Encore or Striker, 15" is the norm; in a Magnum Research BFR, 10"; and likewise in a Phillips & Dodge wheelgun. In the handcannons the 450 is down 1000-2000 fp muzzle energy from a 45-70. The only counterexample to date is the 22" H&R Ultra Hunter single shot.

Nominal bullet diameter is .458". Reloading dies are offered by RCBS. SAAMI lists the maximum average pressure at 43500 psi.




Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:38:47 PM EST
Well, dang Fat McNasty, I didn't even relize that it was you making this post earlier today. LOL, did you get a chance to look over the 450 Marlin specs.? I think it'd be a cool ctg. for a "big bore" and it should work in your mags without modification. Oh well, see ya' "Over there". LOL , be cool.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:58:16 PM EST
577 T-REX HEHE
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:33:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Well, dang Fat McNasty, I didn't even relize that it was you making this post earlier today. LOL, did you get a chance to look over the 450 Marlin specs.? I think it'd be a cool ctg. for a "big bore" and it should work in your mags without modification. Oh well, see ya' "Over there". LOL , be cool.



Looks cool. But the action I have has it mag well opened up. Its a second hand project gun I ended up with. Its missing a few parts, But usable.

I ordered one of these today..

MMMMM a power checkering tool!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:31:03 AM EST
Funny thing is, looking at the 450Marlin has got me to wanting one. I'm not really into recoil anymore but damn, that'd be a cool ctg. to build up into a double gun, kind of like a "458WinMag Short", it'd make a heck of a woods deer round.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:35:29 AM EST
I bought a 450 marlin for Alaska. I put 20 rounds through it with no soreness (winchester 6 lb guide gun).
Shooting skeet has really helped my pussy quotient for recoil tolerance.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:20:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I bought a 450 marlin for Alaska. I put 20 rounds through it with no soreness (winchester 6 lb guide gun).
Shooting skeet has really helped my pussy quotient for recoil tolerance.



Recoil didn't use to bother me either, until 2 rear end car wrecks later, now my neck is so messed up I can't take too much recoil anymore. Also, working at McMillian Arms and shooting the Big 50's kind of gave me my fill of recoil. Of course recoil is a very subjective thing, I had a EMF Sharps Carbine in 40/70gvt. that I was loading with a case full of Pyrodex and a 450gr cast lead bullet, I didn't think it kicked all that much so the 450Marlin might not be too bad. A lot has to do with the butt stock and how wide it is and how it fits the shooter. My cousin had a single shot 16Ga. that I didn't like to shoot because the stock was too short and it'd bust me in the nose every time but I didn't have a problem with my single shot 12 Ga at all.
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