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Posted: 10/13/2004 7:05:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:07:02 AM EST
Wrangler = not a lot of storage space / a little squirrelly on the road when ice covered (short wheel base)


Cherokee = I have two Grand Cherokees
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:10:29 AM EST
Jeep ceased production in 1986.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:11:50 AM EST

I had 2 '93 Grand cherokees, a Laredo (base) and a Limited (plush, V8).

I now have a '01 Wrangler Sport.

Between your choices, I would get a Wrangler, though the auto tranny is a three speed and sucks ass. In 2003, they started putting a MUCH better 4 spd auto in the wrangler.

You can get a early grand cherokee for dirt cheap, and they are MUCH nicer vehicles than cherokees. Coil springs all around, and better drivetrain options.

Arfcom of the Jeep world
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:12:43 AM EST
Almost forgot -- Wranglers = chick magnets
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:13:51 AM EST
If you're looking at new, look at the Wrangler Unlimited. It is 15" longer than a regular Wrangler, and has uprated Dana rear axle, 3500# towing capacity, etc.

There are a lot of leftover 2004 Unlimited still sitting on dealer lots. There are two reasons for the leftovers - in 2004 the Unlimited was available only with an automatic, and in 2005 a manual was an option. Lots of people don't like Jeep automatic (I'm one of them) and wanted to wait for 2005 models. You can get an amazing deal on leftover 2004 that way.

The other reason for the leftovers is that in 2005 the Unlimted Rubicon Edition is 'available'. Not yet, they start production in November. That merges the extra size of the Wrangler Unlimited with the fully loaded rock crawling capabilities of the Wrangler Rubicon in one vehicle.

www.jeepwarehouse.com will give you an idea of discounted prices on 2005 models, and they're always below the 'invoice'. Add about $300 for delivery to your local dealer if you're on a coast, $200 in the middle.

They also sell Grand Cherokees and Liberties, but those aren't my kind of truck. I have a fully enclosed AWD already.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:15:40 AM EST
I just bought an '04 Jeep Rubicon with 5spd manual. If you want a Wrangler for off road, save yourself the future time and trouble of modding it and buy the Rubicon. If you want a bigger Jeep, then gofor the Grand Jeep Cherokee with the big engine.

personally, I would rather still be driving my '77 Ford Bronco. (see avatar)

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:17:26 AM EST
Ive had both ....

The Wrangler is great fun, but as stated above, no room! or security ...

The Cherokee is my choice ... Im selling my present Wrangler so I can get another Cherokee...
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:17:41 AM EST
Fuel mileage in the wrangler sucks. That being said, get the 6 cylinder for sure. Roughly the same mileage as the four, but much more power. Also, get the hard top. It will also help with the mileage, and the wind noise will be cut way back. Try to go with a manual tranny if possible.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:17:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By mohabie:
I just bought an '04 Jeep Rubicon with 5spd manual. If you want a Wrangler for off road, save yourself the future time and trouble of modding it and buy the Rubicon. If you want a bigger Jeep, then gofor the Grand Jeep Cherokee with the big engine.

personally, I would rather still be driving my '77 Ford Bronco. (see avatar)




My new Unlimtied Rubicon will have the new 6 speed manual. Blind faith purchase not having driven it, and I would have been happy with the 5 speed manual, but I didn't want the automatic.

Did you add the transmission and steering box skid plates? I'm not sure why those still aren't stock on the Rubicon, it only has the transfer case protected as built.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:19:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By psychotr:
Jeep ceased production in 1986.



Drink some Kool Aid.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:20:07 AM EST
I think for your application, the Cherokee would be a better choice.

Wranglers are noisy, squirrely, and you have to take out the rear seat to haul anything at all. Gas mileage sucks too. (On a stock 4.0 / 5spd with 30in tires, the best I got was 17mpg on the highway)

However, you can go anywhere with it, even a stock Wrangler will go places many "off road" vehicles can't. You have a go anywhere SUV and a convertible in one. Get a TJ (96 or newer) for the best handling.

I currently am on my second Wrangler. It has a 4.0, 5spd, K&N FIPK kit, TB spacer, 3" BDS suspension lift, 33 in tires, custom exhaust. It will go anywhere, and I get looks everywhere I go.

No matter what you get, just remember, "its a Jeep thing....."

M_J
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:22:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 7:26:34 AM EST by skid2964]

Originally Posted By psychotr:
Jeep ceased production in 1986.



You are the "Anti-Chrylser" !!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:25:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:27:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 7:28:51 AM EST by skid2964]

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

WWJD? What would Jesus Drive?

Others say Jesus would drive a Plymouth Fury...

www.highrock.com/personal/WWJD/

:One theory is that Jesus would tool around in an old Plymouth because the Bible says,
"God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury."

TRG




Is that why the Blues brothers drove one?

[elwood] We're aan a mission from Gad [/elwood]
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:28:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By skid2964:

Originally Posted By psychotr:
Jeep ceased production in 1986.



You are the "Anti-Chrylser" !!



Add me to that list.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:33:20 AM EST
Even though this Wrangler is my second vehicle, third realy if you count my wifes, I love it. It's a go anywhere, knock around, in the mud at the rifle range, snow or cow field. Easy to handle and manuver in tight places, gets good gas milage. With my Mission Equipment trailer I can carry all my gear anywhere.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:40:40 AM EST
Liberty.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:50:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Almost forgot -- Wranglers = chick magnetscars






Go Cherokee! Same mileage, much more hauling capacity, longer wheelbase is more often an advantage than a disadvantage.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:51:42 AM EST
Wait until 2005 and get the Liberty with the Common Rail Diesel.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:57:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By treelander:
Wait until 2005 and get the Liberty with the Common Rail Diesel.



Good idea.

Between the Cherokee and the Wrangler, Cherokee is my choice (and my current ride). Much more practical and still a very capable off-road vehicle.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:58:57 AM EST
wrangler = get a good mechanic
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:00:58 AM EST
Never had a problem with mine -- still have it



Lets see pics of yours ???
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:08:35 AM EST
Get a WJ and ride 4x4 in style.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:14:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:22:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 8:23:44 AM EST by mywifehatesguns]
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:27:53 AM EST
Wranglers have a much higher resale than the cherokee.

Used cherokee can be had pretty cheap.

Really just depends on your needs. Both are decent vehicles, the wrangler can suck on long trips, and you don't have much space. They are a fun ride, though. Get the 4.0, whichever you decide.

Grand Cherokee is the most problematic of the Jeeps.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:29:56 AM EST
Get a CJ. The Wrangler is a wannabe Jeep.(I think I know where a 1946 CJ-2 is for $1800,I might just have to go get it)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:40:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
Get a CJ. The Wrangler is a wannabe Jeep.(I think I know where a 1946 CJ-2 is for $1800,I might just have to go get it)



Let me qualify myself here. I spent 5 years in the off-road industry. My CJ-7 is chevy-powered, runs Dana 44's w/ARBs, a NP435 trans and has 35" tires.

There is Jeep "style" and there is building Jeeps for running serious trails. My interest and experience are with the latter.

We really need to separate out the coil-sprung Wranglers (TJs) from the leaf -sprung ones. (YJ).

The YJ is an updated CJ. Wider and more robust frame, but same tub. Same basic front axle, lighter weight trans and t-case. The NP231 is a great T-case though (capable of taking V-8 power and running a 4:1 reduction.

But if you are building a series off-roader, you are going to throw all the running gear away anyway. Stock for stock there isn't a whole bunch of difference in capabilities between a CJ and YJ. But who runs stock? If I were builing another decidated off-road rig, I would begin with the Wrangler's better frame.

Now the TJ is another story. The coil springs give that platform such a huge advantage it is laughable. A TJ with the cheapest suspension lift will leave all but the most custom CJ's and YJ's for dead. That's right dead. Don't believe me. Go check out what's running Moab, Rubicon and Telico. Relatively stock TJ's absolutely kick ass.

Wannabe Jeep? Maybe. Wannabe off-roader? Absolutely not, its the real deal.

-Z

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:40:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
Get a CJ. The Wrangler is a wannabe Jeep.(I think I know where a 1946 CJ-2 is for $1800,I might just have to go get it)



Some guy down the street from me is trying to sell a 48 Jeepster. Don't think it runs, he just pushes it out of his garage with the "For Sale" sign on it. And, no I haven't asked. I've had my fill of vintage cars.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 8:57:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:04:17 AM EST
wranglers are cool, but there's no way i'd have 1 as my only vehicle.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:12:25 AM EST
PT, I'd go for the Cherokee. MUCH more room inside, very sturdy, as reliable as sunrise. Not too bad for higheay use either. I learned to drive on a 1946 2A, always had a Jeep somewhere in the family. If you want to use it as normal transportation, the Cherokee wins hands down. Get the 4.0 six and the auto OD transmission. It's not uncommon to see a Cherokee with over 200k on it and still going. Ops
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:15:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By XxSLASHERxX:

so, the TJ has a better suspension????......i am clueless on this.



In a nutshell, yes. Both for offroad capability, and for on road drivability.

The old CJ/YJ models with leaf springs etc. were brutal to drive long distance. The current generation TJ with coilover springs etc. is much, much better.

They've been making TJ for a few years now, but I don't remember the exact cutoff date. The big clue is headlights - historically round up through the CJ years, then square for the half dozen YJ years, then back to round for the TJ.

The Wrangler (TJ) Unlimited is a long wheelbase. This isn't new territory - back in the CJ days there was the CJ6 "regular", and the CJ7 long wheelbase.

The long wheelbase is nicer for long drives (directional stability, etc). Offroad, it is a tossup. For some situations short is better, for others long is better.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:20:25 AM EST
I had a 97' Wrangler Sahara white with white hardtop. Very nice, had airbags, 5 speed, 6 banger, air. MPG sucked since I was driving a box down the road. I think I got about 16 MPG. I could drive 80 with no problems. Sold it to get out of a payment. I am looking for another TJ. It would go anywhere with the stock tires. I wish it had posi loc though.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:21:52 AM EST
Real Jeep, if you're lucky,a rubber floor mat,a heater that don't heat,a top that makes you deaf,a metal dash with gauges and switches punched in. I drove a TJ,worlds better,I don't know about off-roading with a TJ,but one could actually use it as a commuter vehicle.(great stereo).
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:22:08 AM EST
Just sold her two weeks ago:



Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:27:45 AM EST
Yeah,I drove my CJ-5 from Lexington,Ky, to Daytona Fl,it took at least a day to recover.The TJ doesn't have that baby buggy bounce like the ol' CJ(really rode bad on concrete)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:56:28 AM EST
Since we are posting pics .... this one is for sale ....


I am building this one for serious off-raod use,
it's getting a Pontiac 455 stuffed in it .....

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:04:56 AM EST
Skid -

That Wagoneer is HOT.!

Couple of locked up, full-width Dana 60's, 37" tires, springover and you will be good to go.

What tranny are you going with?

Keep us posted as you make progress.

-Z
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:12:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 11:14:05 AM EST by skid2964]

Originally Posted By Crimson_Trace:
Skid -

That Wagoneer is HOT.!
Couple of locked up, full-width Dana 60's, 37" tires, springover and you will be good to go.
What tranny are you going with?
Keep us posted as you make progress.
-Z



Thanks!

I'll be using the TH400 transmission and Quadra-Trac transfer case ... can handle tons of torque and abuse.

Full width axles? well ... it's a Cherokee Wide-Trac, so I think it has as full- width as you can get already!

The axles are Dana 44's, Detroit in the rear and ARB up front .. I may go with 60's later on ....
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:24:51 AM EST
Real Jeeps mount real machineguns.It's a Jeep thing.....you wouldn't understand.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:28:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By skid2964:

Originally Posted By Crimson_Trace:
Skid -

That Wagoneer is HOT.!
Couple of locked up, full-width Dana 60's, 37" tires, springover and you will be good to go.
What tranny are you going with?
Keep us posted as you make progress.
-Z



Thanks!

I'll be using the TH400 transmission and Quadra-Trac transfer case ... can handle tons of torque and abuse.

Full width axles? well ... it's a Cherokee Wide-Trac, so I think it has as full- width as you can get already!

The axles are Dana 44's, Detroit in the rear and ARB up front .. I may go with 60's later on ....



Love the Wagoneers! Just hard to find ones that haven't been driven into the ground around here.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:32:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By skid2964:
[
Thanks!

I'll be using the TH400 transmission and Quadra-Trac transfer case ... can handle tons of torque and abuse.

Full width axles? well ... it's a Cherokee Wide-Trac, so I think it has as full- width as you can get already!

The axles are Dana 44's, Detroit in the rear and ARB up front .. I may go with 60's later on ....



I was thinking full-width like Chevy, Ford or Dodge Pickup full-width. The Q-trac makes for some interesting driveshaft angles when changing axles. Isn't the rear diff all the way over to one side instead of centered? Go with the NP205.

Tires? If you aren't going over 35" the 44's should be fine. But that motor is going to be putting out lots of power and that thing isn't exactly light.

Either way, GREAT TRUCK!

-Z

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:26:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By BoreSighted:

Originally Posted By XxSLASHERxX:

so, the TJ has a better suspension????......i am clueless on this.



In a nutshell, yes. Both for offroad capability, and for on road drivability.

The old CJ/YJ models with leaf springs etc. were brutal to drive long distance. The current generation TJ with coilover springs etc. is much, much better.

They've been making TJ for a few years now, but I don't remember the exact cutoff date. The big clue is headlights - historically round up through the CJ years, then square for the half dozen YJ years, then back to round for the TJ.

The Wrangler (TJ) Unlimited is a long wheelbase. This isn't new territory - back in the CJ days there was the CJ6 "regular", and the CJ7 long wheelbase.

The long wheelbase is nicer for long drives (directional stability, etc). Offroad, it is a tossup. For some situations short is better, for others long is better.



The last year of YJ's was '95. The first year of TJ's was '97. There is no '96, though you can find both YJ's and TJ's that were built in '96, there just wasn't a 'new' model year.

I drive a '02 TJ, daily. Never gets worse than 18 MPG. Get the 6, and the Manual.

If you need space, get a Cherokee. I've had both a Grand and a Regular, and while I loved them both, I wouldn't want to 'grow old' with a Grand, there's just so much more that can go wrong. Keep in mind that they actually made (very limited numbers in the Cherokee's case) 2 WD Cherokee's and Grands, so make sure you get a 4x4.

As for the Liberty, my sister had one. Stress the HAD. Topheavy, unstable vehicles compared to the rest of the Jeep lineup. (I'm told they improved it, though...)

Jeep Nomenclature:

CJ: Civvie Jeep, made until Mid '80's; Round Headlights. Many models. CJ-5 and CJ-7 were the popular ones. CJ-6 and CJ-8 were 'stretched' versions. (8's had Pickup beds)
YJ: First incarnation of the 'Wrangler'; replaced the CJ. Square Headlights.
TJ: Current Production Wrangler; replaced the YJ; Round Headlights. Also availible in 'unlimited' trim, which is similar to a CJ-6.

XJ: Cherokee. Discontinued.

KJ: Liberty. Replaced Cherokee. IFS, which is bad.

ZJ: Original Grand Cherokee.
WJ: Current Production ('04) Grand Cherokee. Replaced ZJ. Due to be replaced in '05.

4x4 ability (Stock, my opinion)

TJ>CJ>YJ>ZJ>XJ>WJ>KJ

I agree wholeheartedly that a TJ, stock, is better than all but highly modified vehicles.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:38:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
Jeep Nomenclature:

CJ: Civvie Jeep, made until Mid '80's; Round Headlights. Many models. CJ-5 and CJ-7 were the popular ones. CJ-6 and CJ-8 were 'stretched' versions. (8's had Pickup beds)
YJ: First incarnation of the 'Wrangler'; replaced the CJ. Square Headlights.
TJ: Current Production Wrangler; replaced the YJ; Round Headlights. Also availible in 'unlimited' trim, which is similar to a CJ-6.

XJ: Cherokee. Discontinued.

KJ: Liberty. Replaced Cherokee. IFS, which is bad.

ZJ: Original Grand Cherokee.
WJ: Current Production ('04) Grand Cherokee. Replaced ZJ. Due to be replaced in '05.

4x4 ability (Stock, my opinion)

TJ>CJ>YJ>ZJ>XJ>WJ>KJ

I agree wholeheartedly that a TJ, stock, is better than all but highly modified vehicles.



Nice write up! I forgot all that Jeep nomenclature since it's been 6 years since I last worked with them. Forgot two, though. SJ Grand Wagoneer and MJ Comanchee.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:49:05 PM EST
rubicon is my vote dream big
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 1:50:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 1:52:40 PM EST by mpearcex]

Originally Posted By psychotr:
Jeep ceased production in 1986.


+1 but I could go further and say 1975, 1976 they went to power steering, power brakes, boxed in frames and such
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:08:24 PM EST
The Rubicon TJ is the last word in the best 4x4 on the road/offroad. Period. I still have my '96 ZJ and love it but always wish I had gotten a TJ. I will be getting a WJ as soon as I can. The new '05 independant suspension is gonna be a nightmare to lift and $$$$ but they will have a Hemi!!!

My wife has the new Liberty, she almost got the TJ but did'nt like the ride. SHe loves her KJ. It is actually quite good in the sand, has a small foot print and the new 6 banger has good power. It is a chick Jeep, no doubt.

Those newer WJ's are sweet and fly down the highway.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:22:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
The Rubicon TJ is the last word in the best 4x4 on the road/offroad. Period. I still have my '96 ZJ and love it but always wish I had gotten a TJ. I will be getting a WJ as soon as I can. The new '05 independant suspension is gonna be a nightmare to lift and $$$$ but they will have a Hemi!!!

My wife has the new Liberty, she almost got the TJ but did'nt like the ride. SHe loves her KJ. It is actually quite good in the sand, has a small foot print and the new 6 banger has good power. It is a chick Jeep, no doubt.

Those newer WJ's are sweet and fly down the highway.




Saw the new GC at the State Fair this year...kinda fugly.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:34:30 PM EST
2004.5 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. I really like mine alot. My wife had a van and I got a F150 extended cab truck so we got a fun vehicle. Our kids love the Jeep as much as we love it. The great thing is we can still go shopping in it since there is 3X the room behind the back seat compared to regular Wrangler. The ride is better for sure. Upgraded Dana 44 rearend. Auto which I like. Auto tranny's are always rated to pull a heavier trailer but most people will argue with me until I tell them to go get their damn manual out of the glove box. Anyway. I even have been taking my Unlimited hunting since there is room. Also, they are more quite than a regular Wrangler.

To review. More room, better ride, not as much noise, pull more trailer.

I like it. Get an Unlimited.
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