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Posted: 9/12/2004 8:03:17 AM EST
Where do dealers get them from? Is there some huge distributor with warehouses full of NIW GI mags waiting for dealers to order?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:08:20 AM EST
got some links?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:10:29 AM EST
EE. You see them there all the time. "Shippment just in" kind of shit.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:01:00 AM EST
Interesting. I might just have to pick up a few. Thanks for the heads up.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:04:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Where do dealers get them from? Is there some huge distributor with warehouses full of NIW GI mags waiting for dealers to order?




Ive always wondered as well


BTW I think you mean pre-ban right??
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:05:58 AM EST
Gi mags tend to come from Gi's.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:07:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Gi mags tend to come from Gi's.
NoKarma



that made no sense
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:08:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:08:24 AM EST by repub18]
.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:09:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:13:29 AM EST
Ok lets put it this way. Guys with short hair cuts roaming around gun shows with duffle bags full of new in wrap mags. Willing to sell them for very cheap prices. Do I have to draw you a picture????

I would say that 40%+ of GI mags are stolen.
Hows that.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:15:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Ok lets put it this way. Guys with short hair cuts roaming around gun shows with duffle bags full of new in wrap mags. Willing to sell them for very cheap prices. Do I have to draw you a picture????

I would say that 40%+ of GI mags are stolen.
Hows that.
NoKarma



So you're saying these big companies that buy boxloads of them at a time are stealing them from guys that walk around carelessly with them in duffle bags at gun shows?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:16:17 AM EST
I firmly believe that 60-80% of the firearms on the market before 1994 have always had a near-endless supply of magazines, stockpiled before 1994.

This would include AR's above everything else. I would imagine that there are literally millions of magazines out there now, usgi, niw, sitting in a warehouse somewhere.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:21:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:26:35 AM EST by Charging_Handle]
USGI 30 round mags had been made for what, 25 years or more before the ban set in? Considering how many of these that have been made, I would be willing to bet that warehouses are sitting chug full of them. Heck, we've been buying them in piles and hoarding them like crazy since 1994. Here we are 10 years later and they are no less plentiful. Who knows how long the current stock would hold out?

It doesn't surprise me at all that more batches keep turning up. I think there have been crates and crates of these things sitting around. I highly doubt the number of stolen mags even make up .1% of the mags on the market. Now with the ban ending, surplus mags made since 1994 will flood the market, adding to the piles made before 1994 that are already available in a seemingly endless supply. Let's just hope it is reflected in prices. Either way, I'm happy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:23:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Ok lets put it this way. Guys with short hair cuts roaming around gun shows with duffle bags full of new in wrap mags. Willing to sell them for very cheap prices. Do I have to draw you a picture????

I would say that 40%+ of GI mags are stolen.
Hows that.
NoKarma



So you're saying these big companies that buy boxloads of them at a time are stealing them from guys that walk around carelessly with them in duffle bags at gun shows?



No I am not saying that. Whay I am saying is most of the ones you see at gunshows where purchased in small lots of a few 100 at a time from lets just day a informal supply chain. The largest company can contract for a run of mags to be made. But new in wrap mags made to order will always cost alot more then the stolen mags.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:25:27 AM EST
Just guessing, but base closures, foreign governments, lack of storage, qc rejects...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:25:33 AM EST
I would suspect that they come from overseas. After all, many countries are using M-16s like Israel and most of the Central American countries. They sell to distributors in the US their old "pre-ban" ones and replace them with new ones and probably make a nickle or two on the deal.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:27:23 AM EST
Some come from Okay, some from Center Ind, and I just seen a new floor plate NHMTG. So this would be my best guess to where they are coming from
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:35:20 AM EST
Pic's would be Nice


Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Ok lets put it this way. Guys with short hair cuts roaming around gun shows with duffle bags full of new in wrap mags. Willing to sell them for very cheap prices. Do I have to draw you a picture????

I would say that 40%+ of GI mags are stolen.
Hows that.
NoKarma

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:37:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:39:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
GI's stealing duffle bags full mags and selling them at gun shows? And this is supposedly common practice? Do you just dream this bullshit up? Why don't you just slap me right in the damn face while you're at it.



You'd be amazed what I saw working at an Army surplus store, and I wasn't even in a base town. I can't imagine what goes on in a town that has a base or is near one.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:40:04 AM EST
The local Marines ususally throw their mags away after an FTX, used or unused. I've tried for years to get a contact in to get their "trash", but no luck......


Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:44:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
GI's stealing duffle bags full mags and selling them at gun shows? And this is supposedly common practice? Do you just dream this bullshit up? Why don't you just slap me right in the damn face while you're at it.




Have you ever sold mags at gun shows???
I have.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:45:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:50:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:01:35 AM EST by norman74]

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I'm not even going to engage in this debate. That concept is blatantly false and I will leave it at that. I know not all people who've served were 100% honest but on a scale that's been suggested here is so far out of reality its inane.




At least have the decency to call a man a liar if that's what you want to do, instead of beating around the bush. I'm glad that your experience with the military only exposed you to standup guys, but the fact remains that there are liars, theives and cheats in the military just like there are in the civilian world. If you think that military personnel are above stealing, one of my employees would love to talk to you about his fellow soldier that stole his identity and used it to screw up his credit pretty royally.

ETA:
I never saw anyone come in with a giant bag full of mags. I saw mags in bunches, but certainly no duffle bags full of 100s or 1000s. Some of the other things I saw lead me to believe that it wouldn't be impossible, but I don't really think that your average GI has access to that quantity of mags and has the opportunity to run off with them. It's not like running off with a handful of atropine injectors or somethng small like that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:50:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:51:22 AM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By NoKarma:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
GI's stealing duffle bags full mags and selling them at gun shows? And this is supposedly common practice? Do you just dream this bullshit up? Why don't you just slap me right in the damn face while you're at it.




Have you ever sold mags at gun shows???
I have.
NoKarma



so your admitting to theft of Govt property
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:54:18 AM EST
OK - Just for ARGUMENTS SAKE -

Say you are a large wholesale dealer , and $10,000 is chump change to you.

During the BAN , You get a chance to buy NIW USGI mags for say $10 each.
( The Military market is slow, and Civilian sales are small. )

After a while , the BAN drives prices UP!

You can now sell them for DOUBLE or TRIPLE what you payed.

Im sure this scenario has played out many time over the years.

NOTHING illegal going on.

Now the Ban is going away - and you STILL get a BIG Profit !
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:11:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By NoKarma:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
GI's stealing duffle bags full mags and selling them at gun shows? And this is supposedly common practice? Do you just dream this bullshit up? Why don't you just slap me right in the damn face while you're at it.




Have you ever sold mags at gun shows???
I have.
NoKarma



so your admitting to theft of Govt property



No I did not say that. I did not own the comapny I was just the lacky at the booth. Has it happened yes!!!.
Did we have gov investgators come and confoscate mags? Yes.
Did my boss get in trouble for it ? No
He paid a fair market value for the mags and there was nothing this time that would have indicated there where stolen. The mags where in in the box 20 round ar mags form the late 60's.

I never said that most ar mags where stolen just a hell of a lot of them. I can not even tell you how many time i have read on this board aobut someone getting 10 mags from a buddy that was in the corps. Is it that hard to beleave that someone did not take a couple mags a month and went and sold them every year at a gunshow?? Come on. Now lets say this person gets gredy. Finds a few crates of 20 round mags sitting around that have dates on them form the 60's. No one will miss these mags. Hell no one has opens this box in the last 30 years.

I no longer work selling mags.

NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:21:56 AM EST
Damn trolls are multiplying
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:29:40 AM EST
I don't know where they are coming from , but this last issue of Shotgun news has
several ad's with name brand NIW Mags that are supposedly Pre Ban . It could be that they were horded to be sold at outrageous prices in the future if the ban had been extended . Or they are actually New production counterfeit .
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:31:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Damn trolls are multiplying



Are you calling me a troll?
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:35:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Are you calling me a troll?
NoKarma



Dude ........... You have 700+ posts , havent you caught on yet that if you dont have a
Star after you name , your a troll
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:38:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By chrome1:

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Are you calling me a troll?
NoKarma



Dude ........... You have 700+ posts , havent you caught on yet that if you dont have a
Star after you name , your a troll


My membership just expired.
Hell I was on the arfcom email list!!!
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:40:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoKarma:

Originally Posted By chrome1:

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Are you calling me a troll?
NoKarma



Dude ........... You have 700+ posts , havent you caught on yet that if you dont have a
Star after you name , your a troll


My membership just expired.
Hell I was on the arfcom email list!!!
NoKarma



What made you turn troll? Is it something that came over you all of a sudden or has it been simmering for a while?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:43:37 AM EST
Hey they killed chat. I had to look at the website.
NoKArma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:59:28 AM EST
Ah, geez, not this schit again....

Look, USA never passed any laws restricting magazine capacities until some in the gun industry got behind the push to do so.... now the law is sunsetting... do the f'ng math.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:02:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By stator:
Ah, geez, not this schit again....

Look, USA never passed any laws restricting magazine capacities until some in the gun industry got behind the push to do so.... now the law is sunsetting... do the f'ng math.



I seem to have lost my decoder ring. WTF are you saying?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:11:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 11:14:30 AM EST by SWS]
Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen:

Let's not fight. In less than eight hours, you can have any and all magazines that you wish.

Think happy thoughts.

All your magazines are belong to us.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:15:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Now with the ban ending, surplus mags made since 1994 will flood the market, adding to the piles made before 1994 that are already available in a seemingly endless supply. Let's just hope it is reflected in prices. Either way, I'm happy.


Good luck, isn't clintons little executive order still in play?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:17:20 AM EST
What makes you a troll is making a remark to illicit a negative response. Saying that GIs are the main resource for GI mags is bullshit. You have bad apples in every group sure, but I never stole anything and I believe most don't.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:23:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By chrome1:

Originally Posted By NoKarma:
Are you calling me a troll?
NoKarma



Dude ........... You have 700+ posts , havent you caught on yet that if you dont have a
Star after you name , your a troll



Well, your almost at 700 posts and I don't see a star next to YOUR name. Are you saying YOUR a troll????
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:38:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
What makes you a troll is making a remark to illicit a negative response. Saying that GIs are the main resource for GI mags is bullshit. You have bad apples in every group sure, but I never stole anything and I believe most don't.



I would not be trolling if i thought what was saying was the truth. I never said the main source was GI's
I said 40%. There are bad apples in ever group and the few that are there can do a hell of alot of theft.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:40:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoKarma:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
What makes you a troll is making a remark to illicit a negative response. Saying that GIs are the main resource for GI mags is bullshit. You have bad apples in every group sure, but I never stole anything and I believe most don't.



I would not be trolling if i thought what was saying was the truth. I never said the main source was GI's
I said 40%. There are bad apples in ever group and the few that are there can do a hell of alot of theft.
NoKarma



More like .04%. You are slapping the face of veterans whether you know it or not. I hope you are bright enough to see that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:46:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 11:47:30 AM EST by KA3B]
I stopped the the DRMO office at NAS North Island one afternoon back in 1997 looking for "stuff".

Sitting in the "sales" yard was a bunch of shit that was going to be bid on at an auction that was going to be held.

People were prebidding on items.

There were three big boxes that were marked with the same lot number and had "Sanchez MFG" as the only identification as to what was inside.

I opened one box up and it had 120 NIW Sanchez mags dated 1994 inside.
They didn't have the green followers, they had the black ones.
I figure that since the other two boxes were the same size they also held 120 mags.

I looked at the code for "reason for disposal" and it was marked "overstock".

The paperwork indicated that the boxes had come from the SEALs as they came from the supply officer at Coronado NAB.

None of the other required identification marking (IE no sales to civilians, reuse by federal/state/local agencies ) were on either the boxes or the paperwork.

I went inside and asked what the prices was on the lot. It came back as "scrap value" at $120 IIRC.

I asked the guy what it would take for me to prebid on the lot.
I was tempted to put the boxes in the back of the .gov truck and take them back to the squadron.

While I was doing this one of the guys that worked in the yard came in and asked why the box had been opened up. When the counter guy told him, he got pissed but didn't say anything else.

I had to get authorization to be able to bid on the lot, so I got the paperwork, took it back to the squadron and submitted it up the chain. I got it back two days later.

I went back to DRMO to submit the bid and I was told that the lot I wanted to bid on had been removed from the auction.
I asked the guy to trace the lot number to see what had happened to it and I was told that it had been removed from the bidding and had instead been scrapped.

After he told me this I was not a happy camper, so I walked around the yard looking for the boxes.
I found one empty box sitting on top of the cardboard recycle smasher pile waiting to be smashed and banded.

I figure that the guy who got pissed at me for opening the box knew damn well what was inside and he was snaking them for himself.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:08:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
OK - Just for ARGUMENTS SAKE -

Say you are a large wholesale dealer , and $10,000 is chump change to you.

During the BAN , You get a chance to buy NIW USGI mags for say $10 each.
( The Military market is slow, and Civilian sales are small. )

After a while , the BAN drives prices UP!

You can now sell them for DOUBLE or TRIPLE what you payed.

Im sure this scenario has played out many time over the years.

NOTHING illegal going on.

Now the Ban is going away - and you STILL get a BIG Profit !




Ten YEARS after the Ban and they are still getting boxes and boxes of NIW mags?

Come on! Folks would have cashed out earlier.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:13:16 PM EST

I stopped the the DRMO office at NAS North Island one afternoon back in 1997 looking for "stuff".

Sitting in the "sales" yard was a bunch of shit that was going to be bid on at an auction that was going to be held.

People were prebidding on items.

There were three big boxes that were marked with the same lot number and had "Sanchez MFG" as the only identification as to what was inside.

I opened one box up and it had 120 NIW Sanchez mags dated 1994 inside.
They didn't have the green followers, they had the black ones.
I figure that since the other two boxes were the same size they also held 120 mags.

I looked at the code for "reason for disposal" and it was marked "overstock".

The paperwork indicated that the boxes had come from the SEALs as they came from the supply officer at Coronado NAB.

None of the other required identification marking (IE no sales to civilians, reuse by federal/state/local agencies ) were on either the boxes or the paperwork.

I went inside and asked what the prices was on the lot. It came back as "scrap value" at $120 IIRC.

I asked the guy what it would take for me to prebid on the lot.
I was tempted to put the boxes in the back of the .gov truck and take them back to the squadron.

While I was doing this one of the guys that worked in the yard came in and asked why the box had been opened up. When the counter guy told him, he got pissed but didn't say anything else.

I had to get authorization to be able to bid on the lot, so I got the paperwork, took it back to the squadron and submitted it up the chain. I got it back two days later.

I went back to DRMO to submit the bid and I was told that the lot I wanted to bid on had been removed from the auction.
I asked the guy to trace the lot number to see what had happened to it and I was told that it had been removed from the bidding and had instead been scrapped.

After he told me this I was not a happy camper, so I walked around the yard looking for the boxes.
I found one empty box sitting on top of the cardboard recycle smasher pile waiting to be smashed and banded.

I figure that the guy who got pissed at me for opening the box knew damn well what was inside and he was snaking them for himself.




this is exactly how mags used to get to the public.....prior to about 1995 the govt would put anything up for auction......i knew surplus dealers who would bid on lots and end up with mags,scopes,gun parts etc..........then somewhere around 1995 some people from the michigan national guard got caught ordering parts through normal military channels and then selling them at gunshows.....well when that hit the news the powers that be went nuts.......anybody that had anything to do with weapons parts got to go through a very intense audit(yes i was one of them)......then they stopped almost everybody from stocking any parts at all......then they put a one for one exchange on all parts ordered.....if you needed a bolt you better have a bad one to turn in......then they stopped all weapons parts and anything related to weapons to include slings from being turned in at drmo to be sold t auction.....then they decided they had too many older weapons sitting around ...like m14's...and even garands.....so they started destroying them......you ever seen a m14 cut in have with a torch or saw!!!sad..very sad.....it was at this time that they started dating the magazines as well.......but by then there were so many mags out there the demand has never exceeded the supply.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:15:44 PM EST
I helped a Dealer friend move his business about 5 years ago. We took 2 pickup "loads" of hicap AR mags in boxes alone to his new place. I bet there are still plenty of "now" pre-ban mags stashed somewhere waiting to drop in value.

Danny

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:17:57 PM EST
Read this from the Fulton Armory website:

"Some interesting background: There were actually just two sets of contract 30 round magazine tooling, both built by Colt. They wandered around from contractor to contractor. These contracts were usually "minority or small business set- asides." Typically what would happen is a small business would get set up with the tooling, and start to crank out a contract. Then, the contract was so lucrative that the business no longer qualified as a "small business", the contractwas cancelled, and the tooling got yanked and sent on to the next contractor."

Maybe this is why.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:18:23 PM EST
Some guys from the Navy once left a case of 100 NIW mags in my buddies Helo. Jackass sold the entire case to a local gunstore for $100.00 without even offering me any!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:18:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
I helped a Dealer friend move his business about 5 years ago. We took 2 pickup "loads" of hicap AR mags in boxes alone to his new place. I bet there are still plenty of "now" pre-ban mags stashed somewhere waiting to drop in value.

Danny





Did you ask him why he didn't cash out in 1999 when he could have gotten upwards of $50 a mag?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:30:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:36:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Well, your almost at 700 posts and I don't see a star next to YOUR name. Are you saying YOUR a troll????



I don't consider myself a troll , then again that’s just my opinion

And sure I may have near 700 post's , but I usually give myself 90 days to decide if
a site is worth supporting with $$ . I'll even go on to say that I was ready to pony up
the money last week using Paypal ( Which I despise for their anti gun rules) when I saw a post from Goatboy that they will be accepting direct CC payments soon .

If I reach 90 days before that happens I will break down and use Paypal begrudgingly .......
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