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Posted: 9/20/2014 2:54:12 PM EST
I ask this seriously--not trolling.



This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:56:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2014 2:58:29 PM EST by AlvinYork]
We are not alone........



and to know the mind of God would perhaps drive one mad.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:00:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?
View Quote



Which religion?

Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:07:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FedDC:



Which religion?

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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?



Which religion?



Actually, for the purpose of clarification, not a bad question to ask.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:20:53 PM EST
That's incredible.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:31:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2014 3:36:00 PM EST by ledslngr]
I would say "God is awesome!".

And there's nothing to reconcile. God can create all that too if He wants to. Who am I to say He couldn't or wouldn't create that?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:32:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2014 3:32:56 PM EST by JHill]
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Originally Posted By SAE:


Actually, for the purpose of clarification, not a bad question to ask.
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Originally Posted By SAE:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?



Which religion?




Actually, for the purpose of clarification, not a bad question to ask.

Specifically, Christianity.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:34:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ledslngr:
I would say "God is awesome!".
View Quote


This is my first thought also--but, then I have to wonder if we have any clue of how 'big' God really is...and just to get out of my comfort box, 'Is there really a God?'
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:42:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2014 4:52:35 PM EST by medicmandan]
Just to add a bit of humor into this dialogue--this is what sparked my interest in cosmology.

Let's keep it respectful please. ~ medicmandan
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:48:31 PM EST
What if there is an intelligence so great that in our wildest dreams we could not imagine how smart it is.

What if that intelligence sends its offspring to school like we do to teach them as we do?

What if we are nothing more than that of the intelligence's high school experiment?

It would have to be the project of the class clown for sure.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:50:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JHill:

Specifically, Christianity.
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Originally Posted By JHill:
Originally Posted By SAE:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?



Which religion?




Actually, for the purpose of clarification, not a bad question to ask.

Specifically, Christianity.


Why Christianity?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:00:05 PM EST
I look at that pic and see the beauty of God's creation.

Then I read the OP, and I'm all like, does OP even arrow of time?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:06:50 PM EST
I look at a picture like that, and I think, "How truly significant I am!".

Yes, I am the center of my own universe, possibly of the multiverse.

I may only be able to control a small amount so far, but that small amount is expanding. Others will carry on my work when I am gone.

My children will have the stars for playthings.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:09:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FedDC:


Why Christianity?
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By JHill:
Originally Posted By SAE:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?



Which religion?




Actually, for the purpose of clarification, not a bad question to ask.

Specifically, Christianity.


Why Christianity?


Personally, I wonder how to reconcile this to western christianity. A series of events over the last 4yrs have caused me to question multiple aspects of life, faith, and science. You can interject your own religious interest if you'd like.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:10:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grendelbane:
I look at a picture like that, and I think, "How truly significant I am!".

Yes, I am the center of my own universe, possibly of the multiverse.

I may only be able to control a small amount so far, but that small amount is expanding. Others will carry on my work when I am gone.

My children will have the stars for playthings.
View Quote


ummm, okay.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:11:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By skinny79:
I look at that pic and see the beauty of God's creation.

Then I read the OP, and I'm all like, does OP even arrow of time?
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please define, 'even arrow of time'...
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:15:06 PM EST
Carl Sagan
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:21:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2014 4:24:03 PM EST by M-1975]
Do you believe in aliens? If so, do you think they are all made of meat?

Some other food for thought for shits and giggles: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulation.html?_r=0
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:37:35 PM EST
The fact there are billions of galaxies in the viewable universe should give pretty good odds that there are numerous planets that are prime for life in their cosmological lifespan (if you subscribe to the suggested 15+billion age of the universe.

So, yes I believe that there has to be 'life' of multiple sorts in the cosmos.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:52:41 PM EST
I am amazed at the magnificence of the universe that God created, yet he still had time to create me.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 4:56:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cjt1972:
I am amazed at the magnificence of the universe that God created, yet he still had time to create me.
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Man is proof that God has a sense of humor.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 5:03:12 PM EST
We have much bigger things to worry about than whether God is worried about us.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 5:03:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 7:48:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Man is proof that God has a sense of humor.
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Man is proof that God has a warped sense of humor.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 7:52:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stanc:

Man is proof that God has a warped sense of humor.
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Man is proof that God has a sense of humor.

Man is proof that God has a warped sense of humor.

Thread/
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 8:00:17 PM EST
http://youtu.be/rOjrImaPh80 Someone on this forum posted this several months ago...its awesome!
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 8:55:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stanc:

Man is proof that God has a warped sense of humor.
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Man is proof that God has a sense of humor.

Man is proof that God has a warped sense of humor.

Ever notice that the patriarchs of the Judaic/Christian tradition all seemed to want to bargain with God? if not try to at least talk him out of holding them responsible? God had to have a sense of humor to put up with the reluctance.
Link Posted: 9/21/2014 1:27:44 PM EST
...aaaannnndddd.....derailed by page 2...prolly my fault.
Link Posted: 9/21/2014 2:52:00 PM EST
The God of Christianity claims to be greater than this Universe. I'm not sure what you think this proves or disproves,
If He is greater than this Universe, then the ONLY way we could ever discover him is for him to reveal himself to us.
Link Posted: 9/21/2014 8:54:52 PM EST
I see yet another asking theists for answers...
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 7:23:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?
View Quote

I see no inherent conflict to be reconciled.

Are you concerned about "six days" of creation? Do you presuppose they are defined by revolutions of an earth that had not yet been created around a sun that had not yet been created? And suppose they are "24 hour" intervals by our present perspective. Is there no speed that can be traveled where six days pass in one frame of reference, and 15 billion years pass in another? Relativity has no problem with this, and why should the clock of the first chapters of the bible be anchored to a frame of reference that doesn't yet exist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mabbgxs0k

A more marvelous question to me was:

Psalm 8:3-4: When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 8:43:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 2:05:42 PM EST by SAE]
Or to yet exist within the pathways of our understanding.
How exact are our hypothesizes concerning the creative effect before the human race existed?
There are still many worldly or physical situations ordained by God to occur and reoccur here that we either only understand very little about, or in other cases right up to this very hour can only merely speculate about.
You, know, as many still do concerning the word of God in our midst.
Hundreds of millions in our midst, and counting more coming hot off of the presses everyday.
And I believe that God in His vast and unsearchable state of perfection and knowledge has exercised extreme wisdom concerning a need to know basis for human understanding. Or that being, the defined need to have a basis of warranted and accurate information concerning anything according to fallen man and his point of view and actions today. And that would be concerning the world and its agenda constantly attempting to accomplish control even to the point of great oppression over men in the earth; like it is getting more organized about in our day today.

The Bible states that we as a people will basically know all things, or will have incurred a great deal of understanding when the time comes that we will know certain things that we do not know now.
A process..
The Bible states that when we will know with certainty the exact depth of the earth concerning an exact measurement still within the realm of physical sense within the earth; from its surface to the very center of its inner core, then we will be getting warm with that particular prophesy coming to pass in our time.

However, as long as we can do this in all places at once as God certainly can!
The Day of the Lord is much nearer than it is farther away at the present.
We are running out of time without the mind of Christ in our midst and counting down quickly as only the Scriptures can dictate these truths now!
Those prophesies are assured, but, that one pertaining to man's wisdom is not.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:28:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:40:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 2:06:37 PM EST by SAE]
LORD, our Lord, how magnificent is Your name throughout the earth! You have covered the heavens in Your majesty. Because of Your adversaries, You have established a stronghold from the mouths of children and nursing infants, to silence the enemy and avenger (or the avenging fallen angels which be). When I observe Your heavens, the moon and the stars, which You have set in place, what is man that You would want to remember him?

You made him a little lower than God (or made him lower than the angels in his present state, or a god of the heavenly assembly, or a heavenly being in capability and understanding except that of the Son of Man living within you as One), and crowned him with glory and honor (or glory and honor for this reason). You made him lord over the works of Your hands; You put everything under his feet. All of the sheep and oxen, as well as the animals in the wild, the birds of the sky, and the fish of the sea (or and all of the creatures which scuttle), passing through the currents of the seas.

LORD, our Lord, how magnificent is You Name in all of the earth (or Lord how magnificent is Your Name in all of the places where You rule which is in all places of the creation).

A Psalm and Song of David: Son of Jesse: Son of Obed
Psalm 8
God's Glory: Man's Dignity
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:54:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By JHill:
I ask this seriously--not trolling.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1406/hud2014_1000c.jpg

This is the Hubble Ultra Deep Field pic--the telescope focused on a area of dark sky for 10days. EVERY spec of viewable light is a galaxy (not a star) with an estimated billions+ of stars in each galaxy.

This video gives some more in depth info and scale: ultra deep field 3d

On matters of creation, age of earth, age of universe, Big Bang, 2000 yr old texts, etc--how do you reconcile this info with religion?
View Quote



It was scenes like this that turned me away from atheism. Now they evoke a response of, "No God...... Yeah, right!"

I have no idea if there is or isn't life out there. I tend to think there is, but who knows?

And if there is, so what? I will still believe that the God that created them and us had to come down to us and be killed so we could live. Maybe other species were smarter or something...
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:58:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 11:59:36 AM EST by Zaphod]
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Originally Posted By medicmandan:



One of my favorites.
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Originally Posted By medicmandan:
Originally Posted By crux:

A more marvelous question to me was:

Psalm 8:3-4: When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?



One of my favorites.



Indeed.

Also: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth?"

And...

"The heavens proclaim the Glory of God, and the firmament sheweth His handiwork."
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 12:07:17 PM EST
Indeed.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 12:23:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 12:23:22 PM EST by Bohr_Adam]
First reaction when I first saw it? Pure awe, both at what was captured and that we have the tech to capture it.

Second reaction? Not a very "religious" one - I thought about Total Perspective Vortex.























But, since you are looking for a more spiritual angle, this Sunday's first Catholic reading as posted (ever reliably) by BeNotAfraid,http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_135/1668046_Catholic_Sunday_Scripture_Study__25th_Sunday_in_Ordinary_Time.html

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
As high as the heavens are above the earth,
so high are my ways above your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.
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Link Posted: 9/22/2014 5:05:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By crux:
...why should the clock of the first chapters of the bible be anchored to a frame of reference that doesn't yet exist?
View Quote

Perhaps because those books were written when the 24-hour day did exist.

Otherwise, if took 15 billion years to create each thing, why not say something like each thing took a very long time to create, instead of saying each was created in one day?
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 5:19:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I have no idea if there is or isn't life out there. I tend to think there is, but who knows?

And if there is, so what? I will still believe that the God that created them and us had to come down to us and be killed so we could live. Maybe other species were smarter or something...
View Quote

I still wonder why God resorted so much to killing. I'd think an omniscient Creator would've been smart enough to come up with a more elegant way to resolve issues than shedding blood...
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 7:31:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 7:42:42 PM EST by SAE]
Part of the plan I suppose. Maybe the ultimate sacrifice of life itself seems to be by all accounts in the Bible, a very, if not the most expensive thing of the greatest importance to God, that being, the value of human life

Now, if God's ways and mindset are different than ours, which the Bible confirms as He is higher than we in all areas, especially in understanding and the wisdom to produce all things and then telling also about physical death and not to fear it, then why should we.
The Bible says that it is only appointed once for a man of a woman to die.
The Bible says that Jesus on the cross at Calvary took the sting of death for us!
So, how is it that we, by the senses, do not know what death is actually like? We as human beings only see the part of death, that God wants us experience. As for the Christian as Jesus Christ tells through the word of God, or the Christian Holy Bible; clearly states that we will not suffer death at all.
Now, the reason for this that God has told His people in love, because God also told us that once a man or a woman has departed from this physical life, then they would inherit God's kingdom in an eternal place where a canal mind or the memory of physical distresses may not enter in.

So if this is true, and we must take this on the faith that God has given us, then who cares?
I would say the one who cares is the one who cares more at the present about this life, rather than the one to come.
A life, and more abundant than this one in Christ Jesus the only way and One throughout eternity.
With us!

Thanks,

SAE
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 8:17:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SAE:
Part of the plan I suppose. Maybe the ultimate sacrifice of life itself seems to be by all accounts in the Bible, a very, if not the most expensive thing of the greatest importance to God, that being, the value of human life
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Originally Posted By SAE:
Part of the plan I suppose. Maybe the ultimate sacrifice of life itself seems to be by all accounts in the Bible, a very, if not the most expensive thing of the greatest importance to God, that being, the value of human life

Considering that God reportedly instigated a number of wars, annihilated entire cities and their occupants, and once even drowned virtually the entire human race, it appears to me that he actually placed very little value on human life.
The Bible says that it is only appointed once for a man of a woman to die.
The Bible says that Jesus on the cross at Calvary took the sting of death for us!

Then why is dying still typically a painful and quite unpleasant experience for us?
So, how is it that we, by the senses, do not know what death is actually like?

Because we only know what something is like by actually experiencing it. Once we're dead, we're dead.
We as human beings only see the part of death, that God wants us experience. As for the Christian as Jesus Christ tells through the word of God, or the Christian Holy Bible; clearly states that we will not suffer death at all.

So if this is true, and we must take this on the faith that God has given us, then who cares?
I would say the one who cares is the one who cares more at the present about this life, rather than the one to come.

Then why is it that even most Christians try to hang on to this life for as long as they possibly can?
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 8:33:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 8:49:06 PM EST by SAE]
Survival instincts I suppose.
War in itself some times is a difficult subject to understand.
War now, peace latter, just the way that it is.
Have already explained this to the best of my spiritual knowledge before several times.
Don't much feel like investing the time to do it with you much further.
Your issues not mine.
Sorry. Wouldn't change a thing anyway looking like.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 10:36:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 10:42:46 PM EST by stanc]
We have discussed the first two points before, and unless you have something new to offer, I agree that going over them again is unlikely to change anything.

The third point does not, IMO, merit much discussion.

The fourth point, however, has not (to my recollection) been brought up before in any discussion in which I've participated. I think "survival instincts" is a reasonable supposition.

Of course, that necessarily leaves us with the interesting conclusion that instinct is stronger than faith...
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:28:49 PM EST
Whatever you might believe then. It is of no consequence to me.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:33:05 PM EST
Not everyone dies in pain.

My grandmother simply laid down, smiled and expired with a sigh.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:36:59 PM EST
Thank you.
Link Posted: 9/22/2014 11:38:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2014 11:41:32 PM EST by medicmandan]
Edited. ~ medicmandan
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 2:42:48 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Not everyone dies in pain.
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Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Not everyone dies in pain.

I didn't say everyone does.
My grandmother simply laid down, smiled and expired with a sigh.

She was one of the lucky ones. A few years ago, I shared a room in a nursing home with a guy who screamed constantly from excruciating pain, every day for nearly a week before he died.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 7:28:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2014 8:19:11 AM EST by SAE]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

I didn't say everyone does.

She was one of the lucky ones. A few years ago, I shared a room in a nursing home with a guy who screamed constantly from excruciating pain, every day for nearly a week before he died.
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Not everyone dies in pain.

I didn't say everyone does.
My grandmother simply laid down, smiled and expired with a sigh.

She was one of the lucky ones. A few years ago, I shared a room in a nursing home with a guy who screamed constantly from excruciating pain, every day for nearly a week before he died.


Yeah, we've heard that before guy.
Leagues off of topic now.

Was talking about the glory of God according to His vast and awesome creation..
I'm pretty sure this is not what you're after here.
Maybe they post like this at the Democratic Underground (DU), I don't know.
Link Posted: 9/23/2014 8:26:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2014 8:52:01 AM EST by SAE]
The fool says in his heart, God does not exist." They are corrupt; their actions are revolting. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven on the human race to see if there is one who is wise, one who seeks the LORD. All have turned away; all alike have become corrupt. There is no one who does good, not even one.

Will evildoers ever understand? They consume My people as they consume bread; they do not call upon the LORD. Then they will be filled with terror, for God is with those who are righteous (or the ones who will call upon the Name of the Lord to deliver them out of their distresses and adversity). You sinners frustrate the plans of the afflicted, but the LORD is his refuge (or his refuge because the man of God will call upon the Lord for guidance, forgiveness, and strength). Oh, that Israel's deliverance would come from Zion (or from the Almighty God; Adoni)!

When the LORD restores His captive people, Jacob will rejoice; Israel will be glad.

A Psalm of David
Psalms 14
A Portrait of Sinners
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