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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:39:37 PM EDT
pfffffft
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:45:42 PM EDT
When you mention FTL, do you mean when we'll be able to TRAVEL faster than light or when we'll simply be able to PROPEL something.
'Cuz they were able to propel a subatomic particle faster than light (not MUCH faster) a while ago. Anyway, to travel anywhere near the speed of light would require an extended period of acceleration (I'm not sure--like over a year). Otherwise, the human wouldn't survive the acceleration. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:48:13 PM EDT
Quoted: When you mention FTL, do you mean when we'll be able to TRAVEL faster than light or when we'll simply be able to PROPEL something. 'Cuz they were able to propel a subatomic particle faster than light (not MUCH faster) a while ago. Anyway, to travel anywhere near the speed of light would require an extended period of acceleration (I'm not sure--like over a year). Otherwise, [red]the human wouldn't survive the acceleration[/red]. Ohhh, MAAA-NN!! WHY NOT?! |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:49:29 PM EDT
I mean propell and actual spacecraft.
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:50:19 PM EDT
After about 1 year of accelerating at 1 gravity you will be at .999 light...but, your spaceship would mass a thousand times more (due to Relativity)than when you started, and NO engine posesses that kind of thrust! It will never happen.
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:56:03 PM EDT
I would imagine de-celeration would be an issue as well... we'll destroy ourselves before we figure this out
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:56:05 PM EDT
The key is not to travel faster than light, but to make light travel slower than us.
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:59:52 PM EDT
Quoted: Anyway, to travel anywhere near the speed of light would require an extended period of acceleration (I'm not sure--like over a year). Otherwise, the human wouldn't survive the acceleration. According to a book I have... "In order not to be pushed back into my seat with a force greater than 3G, my acceleration must be no more that 3x the downward acceleration of falling objects on Earth. At this rate of acceleration, it would take 5 million seconds, or about 2.5 months, to reach half light speed!" Lawrence M. Krauss, [u]The Physics of Star Trek[/u] |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 10:08:06 PM EDT
Quoted: The key is not to travel faster than light, but to [red]make light travel slower than us[/red]. The drunkard said, "...let's break the door down!" The marijuana smoker said, "...let's sleep until morning until they open the gate." The Hashish smoker said, "...[i][blue]let us pass through the keyhole[/blue][/i]..." It's all a matter of perception, Lloyd!!! |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 10:13:25 PM EDT
It has already been accomplished. The astral body travels faster than light. All manner of manned and unmanned things have travelled faster than light throughout both this universe and others.
As to when--a very very long time ago. "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." (Arthur Schopenhauer) |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 3:36:30 AM EDT
So ahhhhhhhhhhh...how did Captain Kirk do it? [;D]
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:28:00 AM EDT
Quoted: So ahhhhhhhhhhh...how did Captain Kirk do it? [;D] |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 5:29:10 AM EDT
Quoted: After about 1 year of accelerating at 1 gravity you will be at .999 light...but, your spaceship would mass a thousand times more (due to Relativity)than when you started, and NO engine posesses that kind of thrust! It will never happen. I won't say it can never happen because there are amny more things we don't understand about physics than we do understand and much of what we think we understand, we only understand in part. Relativity, BTW, is only a theory, not a law. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 5:46:19 AM EDT
If the Theory of Relativity is to hold true, any craft that achieves the speed of light would have to be able to expand to over twice it's size.
The faster you go, the larger you become! I would think as long as all the parts of the craft grew in size at the same rate, it wouldn't be a problem. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:09:36 AM EDT
[url]http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/FAQs/warp_formulae.htm[/url]
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:12:21 AM EDT
As you reach the speed of light mass increases but length decreases. If an object whent faster than light according to relativity its length would be 0
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:40:19 AM EDT
Quoted: Quoted: So ahhhhhhhhhhh...how did Captain Kirk do it? [;D] I don't see what all the debate is about...DoubleFeed aleady knew he answer [:D] |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:46:58 AM EDT
Let's get our definitions in line here first.
First off, traveling faster than light in this universe is impossible, period. So the answer to the question as stated, is never. Now, to the intended question, who knows, if ever. There is so much we don't understand about the universe, that it is impossible to say. Is it possible to somehow "warp" space so that a ship could, in essence, travel faster than light? Could a ship somehow utilize higher dimensions to get around the light speed limit? Could human beings survive such twistings (we weren't even sure the heart could pump blood in zero G, hence monkeys and dogs were sent up first.) Again, noone yet knows, and probably won't for a very long time. -legrue |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 7:24:05 AM EDT
The first problem is a power source. We do not have anything upto the task yet. Mobile fusion reactors anyone?
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Posted: 6/12/2002 7:31:13 AM EDT
Quoted: Let's get our definitions in line here first. First off, traveling faster than light in this universe is impossible, period. So the answer to the question as stated, is never. Not precisely true. There are particles that travel faster than light. Now, to the intended question, who knows, if ever. There is so much we don't understand about the universe, that it is impossible to say. Is it possible to somehow "warp" space so that a ship could, in essence, travel faster than light? Could a ship somehow utilize higher dimensions to get around the light speed limit? Could human beings survive such twistings (we weren't even sure the heart could pump blood in zero G, hence monkeys and dogs were sent up first.) Again, noone yet knows, and probably won't for a very long time. -legrue Agreed fully |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 7:54:43 AM EDT
Even if it can be done, and I have serious doubts, it won't be done for a long time. Resources are just too scarce. We just don't need FTL travel to live. No, it'd take a Star Trek-like utopian society to develop. Centuries from now if ever is my answer.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:13:05 AM EDT
How little faith you all have in Humanity, we will have FTL travel when someone wants it bad enough... Maybe not soon, but eventually.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:25:51 AM EDT
Quoted: Quoted: Let's get our definitions in line here first. First off, traveling faster than light in this universe is impossible, period. So the answer to the question as stated, is never. Not precisely true. There are particles that travel faster than light. Which ones? - I only heard once of information travelling faster than light, but that was proven wrong as the professor who stated actually anly measured a chirp and not the actuall light pulse. And you cannot transmit information in a chirp. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:28:43 AM EDT
Tachyons.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 9:07:46 AM EDT
Some people were up late watching K-PAX, I see...
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Posted: 6/12/2002 9:11:55 AM EDT
Quoted: How little faith you all have in Humanity, we will have FTL travel when someone wants it bad enough... Maybe not soon, but eventually. wants it bad enough? I want to be a nubile 16 year old blonde cheerleader, but I tell ya, it AIN'T happening. . . . . er, forget I said that. -legrue |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 9:45:06 AM EDT
I do not think that FTL travel is faster in the traditional sense, IE travling the actual distance in real space. I do think that we will develop methods around that, such as rendering a ship into a tachionic state by some how creting an artifical mass feild, or with a greater understanding of quantom mechaics somehow utilize the worm holes that exist in the quantom foam of quarks and lectons. I feal that it will be acomplished, like most inovations, throught some method that we are not yet familiar with, and will ocour unexpectedly.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 11:25:08 AM EDT
Quoted: Not precisely true. There are particles that travel faster than light. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 11:26:12 AM EDT
Quoted: Tachyons. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 11:33:18 AM EDT
Once again, Let me mention Miguel Alcubierre. When he gets us there, remember you heard about him here, from me....
Scott |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 12:18:51 PM EDT
Just read the FAQ, then discuss it amongst yourselves...
[url]http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html[/url] TheRedGoat |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 12:58:46 PM EDT
As speed increases so does time dilatation, mass and length decreases. As such, it becomes smaller and more massive, not larger. The graphs which describes these changes are hyperbolic-hence approach infinity as an object approaches light speed.
It is not possible to reach light speed according to laws of physics as we presently know them and this is the greatest impediment to FTL travel. Interestingly, it is also a great impediment to creatures from one solar system interfering with another. Works out kinda nice, doesn't it? Tachyons?Faster than light??? I think this is BS until proven otherwise, which it has not been. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 3:08:41 PM EDT
I think you are overlooking one important thing. Our own galaxy is about 200,000 lightyears across. Even at the speed of light, you would be dead for about 1,900 years before you crossed even 1% of the milkyway. If you wanted to travel to just the nearest stars it would be practical. But I would guess that the number of stars you could reach in a lifetime could probably be counted on both hands. What fun would that be. Forget FTL, I would invest my time in wormholes or something of the sort. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 3:27:27 PM EDT
FTL? forget it.
transporter technology al la Star Trek is where it's at. THAT would fundamentally change our world much more than FTL travel. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 3:47:30 PM EDT
FTL travel is useless, we must develop wormholes of some type. Even if we make it possible to travel three galaxies away in two weeks, physics informs us that the astronauts will return to be greeted by their great great great great grandchildren.
Basically, if FTL is possible, its' best use would be to transport one side of a wormhole to the location you want to travel. Then you travel through the wormhole at reasonable speeds without all of the side effects of FTL travel. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:00:24 PM EDT
Quoted: Let's get our definitions in line here first. First off, traveling faster than light in this universe is impossible, period. So the answer to the question as stated, is never. Now, to the intended question, who knows, if ever. There is so much we don't understand about the universe, that it is impossible to say. Is it possible to somehow "warp" space so that a ship could, in essence, travel faster than light? Could a ship somehow utilize higher dimensions to get around the light speed limit? Could human beings survive such twistings (we weren't even sure the heart could pump blood in zero G, hence monkeys and dogs were sent up first.) Again, noone yet knows, and probably won't for a very long time. -legrue Traveling faster than the speed of light in space-time is impossible. There are ways around that. Alcubierre's warp theory is just one of the emerging possibilities. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:03:25 PM EDT
Fools!!
It all has to do with vibration. Wasn't it the Moody Blues that said "thinking is the best way to travel". Its possible some people already travel to different universes'. Don't think they do it by propelling themselves faster than the speed of light. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:24:14 PM EDT
Quoted: Quoted: Let's get our definitions in line here first. First off, traveling faster than light in this universe is impossible, period. So the answer to the question as stated, is never. Now, to the intended question, who knows, if ever. There is so much we don't understand about the universe, that it is impossible to say. Is it possible to somehow "warp" space so that a ship could, in essence, travel faster than light? Could a ship somehow utilize higher dimensions to get around the light speed limit? Could human beings survive such twistings (we weren't even sure the heart could pump blood in zero G, hence monkeys and dogs were sent up first.) Again, noone yet knows, and probably won't for a very long time. -legrue Traveling faster than the speed of light in space-time is impossible. There are ways around that. Alcubierre's warp theory is just one of the emerging possibilities. Wasn't there just an experiment published recently (within a year or so) that demonstrated that, under certain circumstances, a composite material could be constructed such that if a photon (or laser) is directed at it, the beam of light would enter one side and then actually EXIT the other side faster than it took the light beam to cover that physical difference? Or was that just some type of epiphenomenon of the composite used? |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:27:56 PM EDT
Quoted: Again, noone yet knows, Is that Peter Noone your referring to?? [:D] |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 5:03:59 PM EDT
It will 25 years from Feb. 29 2000 that man will launch their first ftl unmanned ship. It will have been constructed through a international space agency formed by the UN. It will travel to Orion belt and back. Upon it return a malfunction will occur. Sending the ship through the moon. Which is then split into three parts, that then strike the earth. At this point the earths population decides it really doesn't like the UN. But realizes this to late. Every living thing on earth is vaporized.
P.S. Electricity already travels faster than light. Electron theory (although not a law can not be disproved) states that a magnetic field pushes one electron from the valance shelf of an atom out of its orbit into the next atoms valance shelf. Which in turn pushes one of its electrons out of its orbit, so on and so forth. If you were to string both an electrical circuit and a fiber optic line around the earth three times, attached a light bulb to the end of the electrical circuit and a power source to the other. Then shot a beam of light down the fiber and turned on the power to the circuit at the same time the bulb would turn on before the fiber light could get to the opposite end. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 5:11:27 PM EDT
Quoted: It will 25 years from Feb. 29 2000 that man will launch their first ftl unmanned ship. It will have been constructed through a international space agency formed by the UN. It will travel to Orion belt and back. Upon it return a malfunction will occur. Sending the ship through the moon. Which is then split into three parts, that then strike the earth. At this point the earths population decides it really doesn't like the UN. But realizes this to late. Every living thing on earth is vaporized. P.S. Electricity already travels faster than light. Electron theory (although not a law can not be disproved) states that a magnetic field pushes one electron from the valance shelf of an atom out of its orbit into the next atoms valance shelf. Which in turn pushes one of its electrons out of its orbit, so on and so forth. If you were to string both an electrical circuit and a fiber optic line around the earth three times, attached a light bulb to the end of the electrical circuit and a power source to the other. Then shot a beam of light down the fiber and turned on the power to the circuit at the same time the bulb would turn on before the fiber light could get to the opposite end. Electricity travels slightly slower than light, not faster. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 5:14:48 PM EDT
Quoted: I would imagine de-celeration would be an issue as well... we'll destroy ourselves before we figure this out Easy solution. Accelerate as fast as you can to the midpoint on your journey. Once there, turn the ship in the opposite direction and decelerate the rest of the trip. Arthur C. Clark wrote about this in the book 2061. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:28:06 PM EDT
No FTL for a while. With all of our theoretical knowledge to date, only a ship with a Warp drive of some sort can "Cheat" that ultimate speed barrier. The key to FTL is bypassing the speed of light and warping space.
Gravity wells = warped space. You'll need at least one graviton generator in the front that pulls space towards the vehicle and one in the rear that expands it. That way, the vehicle could travel at speeds many time slower than the speed of light within that warp "bubble" but travel faster than light, for all practical purposes, outside the bubble. Worm holes and folding space are other options but will require objects or "gates" at both ends to ensure a stable exit point. Otherwise you could possibly end up anywhere in the universe. And how are these exit gates going to get there with out a warp capable ship to get them there? Back to top. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 6:32:51 PM EDT
No
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Posted: 6/12/2002 7:17:43 PM EDT
I haven't studied this stuff, and maybe I'm just plain stupid, but why exactly is the speed of light so magical? It's just a certain speed, I fail to see how at some time, way in the future we couldn't propel something that fast. All this theory stuff about it being impossible to go that fast makes no sense to me.
Why would mega speed change the shape/size/mass or whatever of an object? It's just a speed, if something is strong enough to handle the forces of the acceleration and other similar forces acting on it why would these other things happen? Sounds to me like some super smart guy pulling stuff out of his ass with no real idea or proof of such things. But then again I don't put much faith into very many scientific theories... |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 7:44:02 PM EDT
Quoted: Once again, Let me mention Miguel Alcubierre. When he gets us there, remember you heard about him here, from me.... Scott |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:03:26 PM EDT
Quoted: Quoted: Once again, Let me mention Miguel Alcubierre. When he gets us there, remember you heard about him here, from me.... Scott Mr. Alcubierre is a scientist at the Wales University in Cardiff. He has a pretty good theory already. Just needs to get to the application stage. For everyone, The concept of FTL is in the "faster Than..." part. Sure, Alpha Centauri is still a smidge over four years away at C. But if we can travel at say 16C, then it would only be about three months away. The whole idea is, hopefully once we break C, we can go [b]MUCH[/b] faster than C.... Scott |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:09:07 PM EDT
[url]http://www.google.com[/url]
[url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=Miguel+Alcubierre&btnG=Google+Search[/url] At the moment, none of the links are working for me, but my computer has been icky on me all evening... Scott |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:09:49 PM EDT
His theory is good yes, but where are you gonna get negative energy?
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Posted: 6/12/2002 8:10:01 PM EDT
He who hesitates is frost. - Eskimo proverb
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