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Posted: 8/30/2005 1:10:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:12:18 PM EDT by kill-9]
Read this, let it sink in, then plan accordingly:

www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-083005looters_wr,0,562628.story?coll=la-home-headlines

After Katrina, Looters Ravage New Orleans
From Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS -- With much of the city flooded by Hurricane Katrina, looters floated garbage cans filled with clothing and jewelry down the street in a dash to grab what they could.

In some cases, looting today took place in full view of police and National Guard troops.

At a Walgreen's drug store in the French Quarter, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers.

When police finally showed up, a young boy stood in the door screaming, "86! 86!" -- the radio code for police -- and the crowd scattered.

Denise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures in amazement.

"It's downtown Baghdad," the housewife said. "It's insane. I've wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not."

Around the corner on Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, people sloshed headlong through hip-deep water as looters ripped open the steel gates on the front of several clothing and jewelry stores.

One man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store.

"No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

Looters filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation as National Guard lumbered by.

Mike Franklin stood on the trolley tracks and watched the spectacle unfold.

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.

A man walked down Canal Street with a pallet of food on his head. His wife, who refused to give her name, insisted they weren't stealing from the nearby Winn-Dixie supermarket. "It's about survival right now," she said as she held a plastic bag full of purloined items. "We got to feed our children. I've got eight grandchildren to feed."

At a drug store on Canal Street just outside the French Quarter, two police officers with pump shotguns stood guard as workers from the Ritz-Carlton Hotel across the street loaded large laundry bins full of medications, snack foods and bottled water.

"This is for the sick," Officer Jeff Jacob said. "We can commandeer whatever we see fit, whatever is necessary to maintain law."

Another office, D.J. Butler, told the crowd standing around that they would be out of the way as soon as they got the necessities.

"I'm not saying you're welcome to it," the officer said. "This is the situation we're in. We have to make the best of it."

The looting was taking place in full view of passing National Guard trucks and police cruisers.

One man with an armload of clothes even asked a policeman, "can I borrow your car?"

Some in the crowd splashed into the waist-deep water like giddy children at the beach.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:13:55 PM EDT
before the storm hit I saw reports that there were orders to commandeer anything that could be used "for the public good"
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:16:10 PM EDT
Why are people so shocked about looters. It happens everytime you have a major event of some form or another. The poor and otherwise uncontrollable masses will do anything their feeble minds see fit. Besides, I hear a lot of talk about hoe New Orleans is a " Sufisticated" city. The place was founded by poor drunk pirates and farmers, who found it easier to move the goods they had for sale up ther coast of the river, instead acroos land. N.O. , is in no way a civilized city, the only reason to go there would be to try to get your wife, girlfriend on Girls Gone Wild. The place is a shit hole and maybe this was gods way of cleaning it up a little.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:16:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:17:08 PM EDT
You bet your ass I would empty a pharmacy before the dope hit the street.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:18:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:18:21 PM EDT
I was stuck in my house for 5 days because of flood waters, people tried to loot here too. Thats why I have a shtf rifle.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:18:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharky30:
before the storm hit I saw reports that there were orders to commandeer anything that could be used "for the public good"



Y'know, I remember someone else in history saying things like that....who was it? Oh yes:




Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:20:32 PM EDT by kill-9]

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
You bet your ass I would empty a pharmacy before the dope hit the street.




And in doing so you should be charged with theft, just as should anybody who takes something without the shop owner's permission. In case you hadn't heard, there's this notion of PRIVATE PROPERTY in America.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:20:52 PM EDT
I was listening to the mayor of NOLA, and he and I see his voice perked up a bit, when he was saying that he can confiscate private property for whatever purpose he deems necessary.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:21:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
You bet your ass I would empty a pharmacy before the dope hit the street.




[orwell]Because some are more equal than others.[/orwell]
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:21:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:22:00 PM EDT
I'm not a big fan of what they did, but there are two things you need to remember:

1. The necessity doctrine, which has been a part of Anglo-American law forever, would seem to apply here - and it would apply to private citizens as well.

2. The government DOES have the power to take private property for public use - and we can debate whether this is "public use" here - so long as the owner is compensated. In this case, I will admit it's unlikely that these store owners will be "compensated."
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:22:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:23:04 PM EDT
I'm glad to see that plain, old fashioned common sense is a completely foreign concept to so many of you.

In an emergency you do what is necessary to save lives. Worry about settling accounts after the emergency is over.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:23:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
It is what it Is. I got no Problem with this.




No problem with people looting buckets of jewlry from a store?

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:23:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
I'm not a big fan of what they did, but there are two things you need to remember:

1. The necessity doctrine, which has been a part of Anglo-American law forever, would seem to apply here - and it would apply to private citizens as well.

2. The government DOES have the power to take private property for public use - and we can debate whether this is "public use" here - so long as the owner is compensated. In this case, I will admit it's unlikely that these store owners will be "compensated."



Yep.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:
Why are people so shocked about looters.



I think we're shocked cause it's the POLICE doing the looting. Public good or not, they are stealing from that store.



I think maybe you should have actually read my reply as well as actually read the original post. They were securing goods in order to keep them available, for people who really need them. Try using your brain as something other than an ear seperater once in a while.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:28:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:29:14 PM EDT by brushdog]
It's so easy to judge the actions of a few emergency personnel in a chaotic disaster while we sit comfortably in front of our keyboards 1000s of miles away. Typical ARFcom armchair commandos spewing hatred of people out there busting their ass trying to make their way through this mess.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:32:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:32:45 PM EDT by NorCal_LEO]

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
You bet your ass I would empty a pharmacy before the dope hit the street.




And in doing so you should be charged with theft, just as should anybody who takes something without the shop owner's permission. In case you hadn't heard, there's this notion of PRIVATE PROPERTY in America.



That is all well and good in day to day life but under a declared emergency, things change my friend.

Thanks for making that nice and big and red. My reading skills couldn't quite grasp that one on it's own merits.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:32:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
You bet your ass I would empty a pharmacy before the dope hit the street.




And in doing so you should be charged with theft, just as should anybody who takes something without the shop owner's permission. In case you hadn't heard, there's this notion of PRIVATE PROPERTY in America.



People before things.



Give your "things" to the "people".
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:33:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
Ensuring necessary medicines and medical supplies would be proper in such an emergency. This was not for personal gain.



Agree. If the hotel needed the food to feed guests I can see why the police would do it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:34:37 PM EDT
Remember the cops in NOLA are as crooked as the looters.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:35:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Ensuring necessary medicines and medical supplies would be proper in such an emergency. This was not for personal gain.


Tell that to the store owner whose goods were just stolen by the Ritz-fucking-Carlton Hotel chain --a five star hotel, certainly not a shelter for the sick and poor-- for the "public good" and under color of authority of the NOPD.



It's a shelter for people that couldn't or didn't leave.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:35:40 PM EDT
Any looter deserves to be shot by the property owner. Its America - America IS what it IS.........We have SOME basic laws and morals...........well - New Orleans probably doesn't - but some places not known for widespread corruption do............Last I checked, personal property rights were protected.

Tragedy or not - you don't steal. And being a sheep - or a city full of sheep - doesnt justify robbery.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:36:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:
Why are people so shocked about looters.



I think we're shocked cause it's the POLICE doing the looting. Public good or not, they are stealing from that store.



I think maybe you should have actually read my reply as well as actually read the original post. They were securing goods in order to keep them available, for people who really need them. Try using your brain as something other than an ear seperater once in a while.


I'll have to remember that one the next time some buddies and I pull an armed robbery. Officer, we're just securing goods we really need. Maybe he'll help.

BTW-they also let the rest of the fucking looters know that they'd be out of their way in a second after they were done
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:36:43 PM EDT
If people need food and water, then I have no problem with it. Those items are a necessity to live. If they are looting jewlery and merchandise that is not a necessity and they should be shot.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:36:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:40:04 PM EDT by glimmerman68]

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
I'm glad to see that plain, old fashioned common sense is a completely foreign concept to so many of you.

In an emergency you do what is necessary to save lives. Worry about settling accounts after the emergency is over.

Jim



No doubt in my mind ALL accounts will be settled, common sense says they will be.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:37:40 PM EDT
oh oh what you just said will get this thread locked. cops are above civilians at this website. shhhhhh
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:39:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
oh oh what you just said will get this thread locked. cops are above civilians at this website. shhhhhh



Not quite.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:39:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:41:11 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:40:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:42:38 PM EDT by kill-9]

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
I'm glad to see that plain, old fashioned common sense is a completely foreign concept to so many of you.

In an emergency you do what is necessary to save lives. Worry about settling accounts after the emergency is over.

Jim



No doubt in my mind ALL accounts will be settled. Common sense says they will be.



If this merchandise was taken with full intent of compensating the owner, then fine. After all, desperate times call for desperate measures. But since the article is about looting and makes no mention of accounting or compensation it's likely that the cops are assuming carte blanche to commandeer whatever they please.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:41:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SC_00_05:

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:
Why are people so shocked about looters.



I think we're shocked cause it's the POLICE doing the looting. Public good or not, they are stealing from that store.



I think maybe you should have actually read my reply as well as actually read the original post. They were securing goods in order to keep them available, for people who really need them. Try using your brain as something other than an ear seperater once in a while.


I'll have to remember that one the next time some buddies and I pull an armed robbery. Officer, we're just securing goods we really need. Maybe he'll help.

BTW-they also let the rest of the fucking looters know that they'd be out of their way in a second after they were done



Another mindless quote from some one who is obviously missing the point. The police were aware that looting was going to take place, and that there was pretty much nothing they could do about it. So they obtained what was needed to maintain order, and then let the events transpire as nature saw fit. Comparing this to armed robbery is both infantile and ignorant. Take your soap box over to Berkley and find some fellow hippies you can chant and eat granola with.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:41:59 PM EDT
This qualifies as a SHTF situation.

and for those who thought it couldn't/wouldn't happen....................... it has come to this area for certain
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:42:24 PM EDT
my best friend is an officer. You call a troll anyone who doesn't agree with you putting one criminal on a pedastol over another criminal?

so much for fair here. And you people mock DU? the arrogance here is just as bad it seems but on different topics.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:42:37 PM EDT
Come on everybody..... let's all take this opportunity to jump on the "all police are jack-booted thugs band wagon". Wooo Hooooo, I knew something good would come of this hurricane....

<­BR>
Ya'll did see the sarcasm in my writing, right?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:43:00 PM EDT
One more thing to the people that say it's ok the police are pulling an armed robbery. What if your house was known for having SHTF supplies and disaster strikes. Is it ok if they come, armed, to your house and steal stuff from you for the "common good". I'd think it's probably not.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:44:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
That is all well and good in day to day life but under a declared emergency, things change my friend.



I now fully appreciate this fact and will plan accordingly.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:44:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:46:42 PM EDT by SemperParatusEmt]

Originally Posted By Luxan:
my best friend is an officer. You call a troll anyone who doesn't agree with you putting one criminal on a pedastol over another criminal?

so much for fair here. And you people mock DU? the arrogance here is just as bad it seems but on different topics.



Go FU*K yourself . We don't want to hear it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:45:11 PM EDT
We'll see if they get reimbursed. My money goes on it getting passed off to the insurance companies as a theft or other loss, rather than the city or other bureaucracy footing the bill.

If they DON'T get reimbursed, this will cause a huge problem... more people will feel like they have to stay during disasters just to fend off looters with or without a badge.

Unfortunately, since martial law was declared, all bets are off. No one has any rights there right now, property or otherwise.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:45:36 PM EDT
Does anyone have any examples of N.O. Police actually looting? (ie, guarding a pharmacy is not the same as looting a pharmacy...)
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:46:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:47:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
You call a troll anyone who doesn't agree with you




I'd guess your last thread on the subject was locked because of the three racial slurs in the first paragraph. Well, that and it being a dupe.

You're probably called a troll because you came here to bitch about it.

This subject is going to bring about a great many points of view.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:47:51 PM EDT
If you think you are going to take my property you are in for a rude awakening.

I don't care the nature of the emergency.

I don't care what authority you may be operating under.

You WILL be shot.

I gave at the office
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:48:25 PM EDT
Medicine, food, and the like (as well as other actions to protect life AND property) can be taken in times of extreme emergency, but of course, the owner must be compensated.

The owners here have a sure-thing case against the city for reimbursement of the value of the goods taken (so long as they can show it was their stuff that was taken, and the value).

Don't everybody get so excited.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:48:32 PM EDT
In this SHTF situation, if some of you people can't see the difference in police assisting with comandeering food and medicine for others, and looters grabing jewelry and electronics for themselves, you are really pathetic. I've met DUers with more common sense than that.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:48:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:50:14 PM EDT by DDiggler]

Originally Posted By SC_00_05:
One more thing to the people that say it's ok the police are pulling an armed robbery. What if your house was known for having SHTF supplies and disaster strikes. Is it ok if they come, armed, to your house and steal stuff from you for the "common good". I'd think it's probably not.



If they did, to take food and supplies away from my family to give to those who didn't prepare, there would be some "bug spray" applied to those 'grasshoppers' who try to take from my family. Ants stick together.

Of course, I'd be killed in the process, but I have to protect my family. I would hate it but I couldn't let that happen.

ETA: If they are getting stuff from stores, documenting it and whatnot and getting it to some use AND the owners will be compensated, that is different. However, taking it from families would be wrong.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:49:00 PM EDT
by law if they illegaly enter your home and steal the supplies you need to live you are allowed to defend them and your family and yourself for your own safty. maybe WI law does not apply to lousiania? I have no need to express my views at this site anymore.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:50:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:50:47 PM EDT by magnum_99]

Originally Posted By nationwide:
If you think you are going to take my property you are in for a rude awakening.

I don't care the nature of the emergency.

I don't care what authority you may be operating under.

You WILL be shot.

I gave at the office




Would you feel the same if I needed to take your boat to save the life of a drowning person (and knowing that for whatever reason, you wouldn't get the boat back, but would be paid its value)?

If so, you are a lowlife.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:50:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
by law if they illegaly enter your home and steal the supplies you need to live you are allowed to defend them and your family and yourself for your own safty. maybe WI law does not apply to lousiania? I have no need to express my views at this site anymore.



Go, leave the sandbox and take your toys with you, cry baby.
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