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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/5/2002 7:50:48 AM EDT
[size=4]AmWest passenger says gate agent's frisking was too frisky[/size=4] Tom Zoellner at The Arizona Republic Feb. 04, 2002 08:10:00 A California woman said she was given a sexually inappropriate frisking by an America West Airlines gate agent doing a pat-down security check just before she boarded her flight at Sky Harbor International Airport. "He ignored my protest with a smirk and proceeded to take his hands inside my cardigan sweater," said Sharon Schmidt of Placerville, Calif., in a written complaint. "He placed his hands on the sides of my waist, felt up to the bottom of my bra and then down to my hips." America West spokeswoman Janice Monahan said the airline had begun an internal investigation of the alleged Jan. 21 incident, but added: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The airline has not yet determined the identity of the male gate agent and has not yet heard his side of the story, Monahan said. Gate agents from all airlines have been conducting random pat-down searches of passengers ever since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. America West's policy is not to single out passengers because of their race or sex, said Monahan. But Schmidt said the gate agent, who was wearing no uniform and carrying no identification, appeared to be choosing lone female travelers. Another female passenger who had been searched by the same agent emerged from behind a tall screen "visibly shaken" and "almost in tears," she said. Attorney General Janet Napolitano has taken up Schmidt's cause, writing letters of concern to America West chairman Douglas Parker and FAA official Karen Titherington. Napolitano, who is running for governor, acknowledged that her office has no legal jurisdiction over aviation security issues, but asked America West and the FAA to investigate both the pat-down search of Schmidt and the general policy of allowing male gate agents to search female passengers. "We believe that America West's policy may be providing some male (gate staff agents) with a pretext for physical harassment of female passengers," Napolitano wrote to the airline. Schmidt's complaint is the first one of its kind to be brought to the airline since Sept. 11, said Monahan. She said that America West gate agents are authorized to pat down passengers, search their carry-on luggage and use magnetometer wands on passengers for an extra precaution even after they have passed through the metal detectors at the entrance to the concourse. "We are in complete compliance with the FAA's requirements," she said. In her statement, Schmidt said her complaint fell on deaf ears. An attendant on the flight to Sacramento would not give her an incident report form and suggested she contact a security officers once the plane touched down, she said. Deputy sheriff's officers in Sacramento referred her back to the airline. Schmidt said she then made three unsuccessful attempts to contact America West customer service through a 1-800 number. See article at:[url] http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0204awa-ON.html[/url] Eric The(WhyTheScreen,Anyway?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:00:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Janice Monahan said the airline had begun an internal investigation .... "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The airline has not yet determined the identity of the male gate agent ........ Eric The(WhyTheScreen,Anyway?)Hun[>]:)]
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Bullschitt speaks eloquently for its' self.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:23:50 AM EDT
I'm weary of whinney ass bitches! Want equal this and equal that....BUT! I'm sure a male would let either sex frisk him. If she doesn't want to be submitted to the 'rules of the times' then find another f*$ken means of transportation which won't submit her to such atrocities! F*%kin Biatches! We have this gal at work who has complained about officers staring at her. She is a blond with huge fake tits. She wears skin tight knit tops to show them off and tiny mini-skirts. Doesn't think the officers should stare at her! We're security you bimbo guess what we do during the day to everyone who walks in! I'm sick of it!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:26:14 AM EDT
If this is going on, you would think all the FBI would have to do to catch the democrat, is enlist one of it's nicest looking female members to book a flight that boards from that gate.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:46:43 AM EDT
"We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The indifference with which complaints are treated these days is what bothers me. It smacks of the same mentality that brought us "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of." In the end, it is the dissatisfaction with accountability in public agencies that will bring this country down. It's already happening everywhere I look. The police state is here and it is going to get more and more dangerous for individuals who do not go along to get along to function at all. Why is it so hard to believe that this woman was fondled? Why are people being frisked at all? The assumptions here are bad, indeed--it is assumed that frisking innocent people is actually okay. It is not. It never was okay. Every news story I hear about airport security or security at some big event (e.g. the stuporbowl) tells the same story--they only interview people who will say "I don't mind the added inconvenience of having to pass through metal detectors and being patted down." Bullshit! Someone out there minds--ME!!! I fucking mind. I'm sick of being told that it is for the good of everyone and for everyone's safety and security when I know better. See, I know I could smuggle any weapon I want into an airport or major event and I know that anyone intent on doing evil can as well. The security is a facade. It is meant to reduce peoples' resistance to the police state. It's working very well.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 8:53:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations."
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Coupled with - "The airline has not yet determined the identity of the male gate agent... BULLSCHITTTT is bullschit.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:10:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The indifference with which complaints are treated these days is what bothers me. It smacks of the same mentality that brought us "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of." In the end, it is the dissatisfaction with accountability in public agencies that will bring this country down. It's already happening everywhere I look. The police state is here and it is going to get more and more dangerous for individuals who do not go along to get along to function at all. Why is it so hard to believe that this woman was fondled? Why are people being frisked at all? The assumptions here are bad, indeed--it is assumed that frisking innocent people is actually okay. It is not. It never was okay. Every news story I hear about airport security or security at some big event (e.g. the stuporbowl) tells the same story--they only interview people who will say "I don't mind the added inconvenience of having to pass through metal detectors and being patted down." Bullshit! Someone out there minds--ME!!! I fucking mind. I'm sick of being told that it is for the good of everyone and for everyone's safety and security when I know better. See, I know I could smuggle any weapon I want into an airport or major event and I know that anyone intent on doing evil can as well. The security is a facade. It is meant to reduce peoples' resistance to the police state. It's working very well.
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Sir...I'm sure that your thoughts on this guy being a 'dick' are true. There are alot of them and we try to weed them out when we can. All security officers are not dicks but mearly performing duties that are dictated to them by their employers. Kinda like you having to do your job at your place of employment... possibly walking a mile in any LEO's shoes would make one more appreciative of them but to avoid being frisked I'd avoid places that do that sort of thing.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:22:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By deadeye47: I'm weary of whinney ass bitches! Want equal this and equal that....BUT! I'm sure a male would let either sex frisk him. If she doesn't want to be submitted to the 'rules of the times' then find another f*$ken means of transportation which won't submit her to such atrocities! F*%kin Biatches! We have this gal at work who has complained about officers staring at her. She is a blond with huge fake tits. She wears skin tight knit tops to show them off and tiny mini-skirts. Doesn't think the officers should stare at her! We're security you bimbo guess what we do during the day to everyone who walks in! I'm sick of it!
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let me guess, you have a healthy respect for women in general and love the fairer sex, but still recognize that the differences between them don't mean one is superior over the other, right? grow up. it ain't about the search itself. it's about how he conducted it. i'm not saying there's any truth to her story one way or the other. in fact, her description sounds exactly like what i got and i didn't think it was all that inappropriate. but you can be damn sure that if it was a guy who was using his "power" to put his hands in places where he had no business being, all in the name of being frisked, he was going to be hurtin'. maybe she didn't feel comfortable with that kind of search. it doesn't make her a whiney bitch. just a little unreasonable. and your suggestion that she find alternative transportation would be good advice. it's entirely possible that she's making claims that just aren't true. but you're going way out on a limb with you own accusations. you weren't there so you can't possibly know the whole story. and you come off looking like a big cretin.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:27:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 9:36:29 AM EDT by Chimborazo]
Originally Posted By deadeye47: Sir...I'm sure that your thoughts on this guy being a 'dick' are true. There are alot of them and we try to weed them out when we can. All security officers are not dicks but mearly performing duties that are dictated to them by their employers.
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I don't think anybody is saying that all security officers are dicks. However, it has been my general experience that the security personel at airports are of a caliber and level of competence that is nothing to brag about (and that's puting it nicely). This alleged incident does not shock me at all, and if true, the searcher was not "performing duties that are dictated...". They are specifically told NOT to do that. It infuriates me. That's what the fucking wand is for. Further, it sounds like this person was not security. He worked for the airline. As far as finding an alternate method of travel, there isn't one comparable. I don't have the time to drive across country, or paddle across the Atlantic.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:40:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By deadeye47: I'm weary of whinney ass bitches! Want equal this and equal that....BUT! I'm sure a male would let either sex frisk him. If she doesn't want to be submitted to the 'rules of the times' then find another f*$ken means of transportation which won't submit her to such atrocities! F*%kin Biatches! We have this gal at work who has complained about officers staring at her. She is a blond with huge fake tits. She wears skin tight knit tops to show them off and tiny mini-skirts. Doesn't think the officers should stare at her! We're security you bimbo guess what we do during the day to everyone who walks in! I'm sick of it!
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let me guess, you have a healthy respect for women in general and love the fairer sex, but still recognize that the differences between them don't mean one is superior over the other, right? grow up. it ain't about the search itself. it's about how he conducted it. i'm not saying there's any truth to her story one way or the other. in fact, her description sounds exactly like what i got and i didn't think it was all that inappropriate. but you can be damn sure that if it was a guy who was using his "power" to put his hands in places where he had no business being, all in the name of being frisked, he was going to be hurtin'. maybe she didn't feel comfortable with that kind of search. it doesn't make her a whiney bitch. just a little unreasonable. and your suggestion that she find alternative transportation would be good advice. it's entirely possible that she's making claims that just aren't true. but you're going way out on a limb with you own accusations. you weren't there so you can't possibly know the whole story. and you come off looking like a big cretin.
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Miss ARlady it's the 'whinney bitch' thing I'm weary of. Yes, they need to grow up. I replied to trickshot that I thought this guy was a 'Dick' and we do try to weed these types out. No comment about Airport security although here in the Tulsa Airport they have their own police force. I don't know what kind of job they are doing because I DON'T WORK THERE. Have a nice day Mam.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:41:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: The indifference with which complaints are treated these days is what bothers me. It smacks of the same mentality that brought us "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of." In the end, it is the dissatisfaction with accountability in public agencies that will bring this country down. It's already happening everywhere I look. The police state is here and it is going to get more and more dangerous for individuals who do not go along to get along to function at all. Why is it so hard to believe that this woman was fondled? Why are people being frisked at all? The assumptions here are bad, indeed--it is assumed that frisking innocent people is actually okay. It is not. It never was okay. Every news story I hear about airport security or security at some big event (e.g. the stuporbowl) tells the same story--they only interview people who will say "I don't mind the added inconvenience of having to pass through metal detectors and being patted down." Bullshit! Someone out there minds--ME!!! I fucking mind. I'm sick of being told that it is for the good of everyone and for everyone's safety and security when I know better. See, I know I could smuggle any weapon I want into an airport or major event and I know that anyone intent on doing evil can as well. The security is a facade. It is meant to reduce peoples' resistance to the police state. It's working very well.
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WELL said....
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:49:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 9:51:01 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[i] America West spokeswoman Janice Monahan said the airline had begun an internal investigation of the alleged Jan. 21 incident, but added: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The airline has not yet determined the identity of the male gate agent and has not yet heard his side of the story, Monahan said. [/i] [b]Two weeks since it happened[/b] and they STILL don't know WHO it was working the gate?! Let see... Two weeks later, they still don't know who it was, BUT... "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." As a wise man once growled, [b]"It's a cluster-f*ck!"[/b] [;D]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 9:56:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [i] America West spokeswoman Janice Monahan said the airline had begun an internal investigation of the alleged Jan. 21 incident, but added: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The airline has not yet determined the identity of the male gate agent and has not yet heard his side of the story, Monahan said. [/i] [b]Two weeks since it happened[/b] and they STILL don't know WHO it was working the gate?! Let see... Two weeks later, they still don't know who it was, BUT... "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." As a wise man once growled, [b]"It's a cluster-f*ck!"[/b] [;D]
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[shock] Now thats what I call SECURITY! What a joke and this is why Security gets a bad rap.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:06:45 AM EDT
I have a question... If he had no identification, and was not in any uniform... was he really an airline employee? Or just a scumbag impersonating one to feel up women?
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:09:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By deadeye47: Miss ARlady it's the 'whinney bitch' thing I'm weary of. Yes, they need to grow up. I replied to trickshot that I thought this guy was a 'Dick' and we do try to weed these types out. No comment about Airport security although here in the Tulsa Airport they have their own police force. I don't know what kind of job they are doing because I DON'T WORK THERE. Have a nice day Mam.
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granted, i am too. but you have no clue really, do you, that she qualifies as a whiney bitch? you just think she does because she's making accusations similar to what a whiney bitch would make. unlike your well-endowed co-worker, she wasn't calling attention to herself on purpose and then complaining about the results it got. though i find it sort of ironic that you're whining about other people whining. [:D]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:11:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: "We don't think there is any basis for these allegations." The indifference with which complaints are treated these days is what bothers me. It smacks of the same mentality that brought us "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of." In the end, it is the dissatisfaction with accountability in public agencies that will bring this country down. It's already happening everywhere I look. The police state is here and it is going to get more and more dangerous for individuals who do not go along to get along to function at all. Why is it so hard to believe that this woman was fondled? Why are people being frisked at all? The assumptions here are bad, indeed--it is assumed that frisking innocent people is actually okay. It is not. It never was okay. Every news story I hear about airport security or security at some big event (e.g. the stuporbowl) tells the same story--they only interview people who will say "I don't mind the added inconvenience of having to pass through metal detectors and being patted down." Bullshit! Someone out there minds--ME!!! I fucking mind. I'm sick of being told that it is for the good of everyone and for everyone's safety and security when I know better. See, I know I could smuggle any weapon I want into an airport or major event and I know that anyone intent on doing evil can as well. The security is a facade. It is meant to reduce peoples' resistance to the police state. It's working very well.
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I whole-heartedly agree with you that there is a rapidly growing Police-State mentality and a willingness to accept it among the sheeple. No disagreement regarding this. However, if I owned an airlines, I'd have every right and reason to search the masses of sheeple who choose to board [b]MY planes[/b]. Especially if I were legally responsibile for any incidents or mishaps or nuclear detonations occuring on board [b]MY planes[/b] because of my failure to provide a "reasonable" amount of security. Remember, [b]their planes, their rules.[/b] You don't like it, get your own plane.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:15:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By deadeye47: [... possibly walking a mile in any LEO's shoes would make one more appreciative of them but to avoid being frisked I'd avoid places that do that sort of thing.
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You'll probably be shocked to learn those of us who must fly can't avoid ".....places that do that sort of thing." You must be a LEO as your statement is what passes for thinking for about 20% of them. [X]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:19:14 AM EDT
A California woman said she was given a sexually inappropriate frisking by an America West Airlines gate agent doing a pat-down security check just before she boarded her flight at Sky Harbor International Airport.
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It sounds like some guy was working a scam on any hot chick he saw. With no uniform or ID he probably was not even security, and may not even have been an employee. Just some perv out to grab a feel.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:36:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By deadeye47: Miss ARlady it's the 'whinney bitch' thing I'm weary of. Yes, they need to grow up. I replied to trickshot that I thought this guy was a 'Dick' and we do try to weed these types out. No comment about Airport security although here in the Tulsa Airport they have their own police force. I don't know what kind of job they are doing because I DON'T WORK THERE. Have a nice day Mam.
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granted, i am too. but you have no clue really, do you, that she qualifies as a whiney bitch? you just think she does because she's making accusations similar to what a whiney bitch would make. unlike your well-endowed co-worker, she wasn't calling attention to herself on purpose and then complaining about the results it got. though i find it sort of ironic that you're whining about other people whining. [:D]
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Dang! A.This woman has every right to complain and she did! The guy is a dick! B. I got a clue about my comments regarding women. I work about 50 hours a week talking to people and WOMEN DO THE MOST WHINNING![argue] C. Miss 'insecure chest' doesn't dress that way to attract attention from OTHER WOMEN!!!(well, who knows but I doubt it [:D]) D. I just got up and I have a bad tooth and jumped right in the middle of this thread by being annoying. E. Your last comment is true![spank] haha Have a nice day Miss ARlady!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:01:17 AM EDT
If they aren't searching 90 year-old Chinese men it isn't random, is it? This entire thing is BS. If they had half a brain they would base the searches entirely on racial profiling, because that is the reality of what is happening. But we can't do that here in "free" America.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:16:01 AM EDT
Just got back from Atlanta, I had an interesting experience, I was singled out for a special random search and the two female gatekeepers asked me to spread my arms so they could frisk me, I declined saying that the only woman that was allowed to tocuh me was my wife, they tried several times unsuccessfully to get me to go along with the search, whereupon they allowed me to board . I am only suprised they didn't close the airport and make every go outside and come back in again...
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:16:18 AM EDT
I say that when they find that sick bastard they should let Ms. Schmidt pat him down, with a pair of stun guns!!! ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:25:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 11:28:30 AM EDT by deadeye47]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By deadeye47: [... possibly walking a mile in any LEO's shoes would make one more appreciative of them but to avoid being frisked I'd avoid places that do that sort of thing.
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You'll probably be shocked to learn those of us who must fly can't avoid ".....places that do that sort of thing." You must be a LEO as your statement is what passes for thinking for about 20% of them. [X]
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Naw I'm not shocked,not much shocks me anymore. Even your last comment it's typical for...oh never mind. Have a safe (?) flight.. OH you too heilo..
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:06:22 PM EDT
So he "cops a feel" in the name of terrorism: Very nice. Next week, he will be a new federal employee, "coping a feel" in the name of terrorism. I'd apply for the job, which will pay 8000 more a year than what I make now, but I'm not qualified: I have a high school diploma. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 5:57:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 6:57:39 PM EDT
I was not there when the incident happened so I can only make comments based on the info given. In my opinion there is nothing to complain about! She said she was frisked on her waist and up to the bottom of her breast and down to her hips. I see nothing wrong with this frisk at all. There are different levels of searches and if the person was to only search or patdown certain areas of the body and use a wand on the rest then it sounds like he did his job. BUT on the other hand if he is to be conducting thorough and complete frisks to determine if the person has any unauthorized objects on her then I would say he failed terribly. If I am doing a search and it is to be a complete one then I will search your hair, your breast around them under them between them, your arms, chest, back your johnson area or your "private femine area", your legs, your butt and everywhere inbetween. Further more I am sure I would have pissed this lady off as I would have probably used the crush and twist method and thereby wrinkling her nice outfit ontop of upsetting her by touching her waist and from the bottom area of her breast to her hips. But on another note I would be willing to bet that the lady would be one of the first in line to sue the plane company if they had not done proper searches and someone got on the plane with a weapon and there was an incident.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:00:03 PM EDT
Also just wanted to say that men are just as capable of being whiney bitches as women are but it just so happens that more often than not it is a woman.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 7:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 7:12:27 PM EDT by Ross]
While it may be their planes and their rules, there are other options. Take a competitor's arilines and be as vocal as you can to the airlines, the news media, on the net, and to your Congresscritter about why you're doing it. Airlines are quickly becoming a subsidized industry, and if they're using my tax dollars, they darn well should have to answer to my elected rep. Airlines are having a hard enough time filling seats now. Business only understands the bottom line. There shouldn't be any difficulty in having female employees search females. The airlines has the right to search whomever, but they won't stay in business long without customers. They can provide adequate security and still provide the level of respect to it's customers that they deserve. The only reason they don't is because it costs money. Again, business only understands the bottom line. The whole reason that there is such poor security at airports is because the airlines are the ones paying for those low-wage screeners. The only reason they're doing that much is because the federal government makes them. Ross
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:37:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TrojanFan: I was not there when the incident happened so I can only make comments based on the info given. In my opinion there is nothing to complain about! She said she was frisked on her waist and up to the bottom of her breast and down to her hips. I see nothing wrong with this frisk at all. There are different levels of searches and if the person was to only search or patdown certain areas of the body and use a wand on the rest then it sounds like he did his job. BUT on the other hand if he is to be conducting thorough and complete frisks to determine if the person has any unauthorized objects on her then I would say he failed terribly. If I am doing a search and it is to be a complete one then I will search your hair, your breast around them under them between them, your arms, chest, back your johnson area or your "private femine area", your legs, your butt and everywhere inbetween. Further more I am sure I would have pissed this lady off as I would have probably used the crush and twist method and thereby wrinkling her nice outfit ontop of upsetting her by touching her waist and from the bottom area of her breast to her hips. But on another note I would be willing to bet that the lady would be one of the first in line to sue the plane company if they had not done proper searches and someone got on the plane with a weapon and there was an incident.
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Damn, you beat me to it! This woman was NOT thoroughly searched...if she HAD been, she would have had a severe Episode on the spot. I will add to it though, by stating what needs to happen next: airline takes a really hot female flight attendant, and has her smuggle in a synthetic boot knife (in a sheath) onto the same flight, through the same gate, in between her breasts. Then take the whiney womans testimony, documentation on the ability to still smuggle a weapon on the plane and how it was done, and dump it all in the mass media and .govs lap, thus demonstrating the monster our beloved Government has created in the name of safety (cough, snicker). Oh, and direct any further inquiries by the complainant or her attorney to the Office of Homeland Security and her Congresscritter. Then watch the dance!
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 10:55:36 PM EDT
Y'know, I've done "body searches" (more commonly known as "frisks") as part of my work with our "beloved" government. If I had searched her, she would have had kittens on the spot! A proper search would include all the patting down along the sides, back, and legs. A quick, gentle, businesslike pat on the groin with a slightly cupped hand (cupping to depend on gender being searched, but enough to maximise contact - and therefore search - area.) A two-fingered pass UNDER each breast - from the outside in and up between them. Checking the outside seams of the pants, the hemline of the skirt (whichever is appropriate) and the "button strip" down the front or back of the shirt. Check is for flexibility (looking for piano wire or something similar) and can be done without removal of garments if fitment allows. Clasp at rear of brassiere is also lifted slightly (thru shirt) to see if anything falls out from behind. DO NOT SNAP THE STRAP - return it gently to place. AND, running my fingers thru the hair, THOROUGHLY. A simple combing motion from front to back or back to front will suffice, but the search must be complete. Eyeglasses, shoes, shoelaces, and belt will also be examined as well. The search is to be carried out with a blank face at all times. The individual may be somewhat discomfited and slightly disheveled afterwards, but upon examination will have no cause to feel "violated" - as all actions were taken in the name of thoroughness. It is complaints about thoro searches that can lead to cops getting killed by improvised weapons - smuggled in areas where LE is afraid to touch (groin, breasts, shirt buttons) because of complaints such as this. I will not be endangered by political correctness or my own inability to conduct a thoro personal search. BTW - I quit flying when MAC hops were no longer available to me. With layovers and "equipment changes" as often happening when I travel, I do about as well to drive. Besides, I get to enjoy the scenery, see more of what I fought to defend, and I get some time to enjoy the solitude I often cannot otherwise find. Besides, I'm too dman big to fit in airliner seats easily (not overwieght, just solid) and I don't trust anyone that doesn't trust me. Besides, the minimum wage monkeys they have been hiring from East Ougadouga probably can't catch a cold without written instructions, and the odds then are 50-50 at best. I don't trust these idiots with my security, safety, or life. FFZ
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:23:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 1:38:06 AM EDT
I don't understand something guys, feel free to educate me, but how does a rent-a-cop at a security booth have a legal right to perform such a search? Can a security-dude at walmart perfrom the same sort of search on a shoplifting suspect? Now the interesting part is, do Terry Searches apply to non-LEO's? Fire away.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:43:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: I don't understand something guys, feel free to educate me, but how does a rent-a-cop at a security booth have a legal right to perform such a search?
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Because if you want to ride on their plane, you have to do what they want in order to..... purchase ticket, certain amount of luggage, carry on and checked, they get to assign you a seat, etc.
Can a security-dude at walmart perfrom the same sort of search on a shoplifting suspect?
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Depends, if they have an "all bags subject to search" they could probably give ya' the once over on the way in or out, but not necesarily search your person. If they have some reasonble suspicion they could probably search you, if they do so in a reasonable manner.
Now the interesting part is, do Terry Searches apply to non-LEO's?
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The Constitution protects citizens from the government, it doesn't protect citizens from each other.
Fire away.
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Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:59:41 AM EDT
The solution is so obvious. They need to maintain frisk "teams" and the friskee gets to pick the frisker. I recommend 4-person teams, and using famous people to illustrate team composition, a typical team would be: Russell Crowe, Nicole Kiddman, Richard Symonds, and Rosie O'Donnell. Pick your poison and be happy.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:14:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By hielo: I don't understand something guys, feel free to educate me, but how does a rent-a-cop at a security booth have a legal right to perform such a search?
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Because if you want to ride on their plane, you have to do what they want in order to..... purchase ticket, certain amount of luggage, carry on and checked, they get to assign you a seat, etc.
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Hmmm, while what you say sounds correct, it is in fact, incorrect. While the airlines own and operate the airplanes, they do not own and operate the airports (where the searches are happening), in most cases these airports are governmentally owned (hence and why FAA edicts are law.) I can understand if they do the full body searches once you step onto their airplane, but to be searched while on federal property would need to follow the letter of the law, no? Would they not need probable cause, failing that, wouldn't they need a search warrant?
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:00:23 AM EDT
Realistically speaking, if they search you once you are on the plane it is too late......... Also the airlines run the security in the airport check in areas. Yes most are government facilities, be it state, county, or federal. But the actual people checking bags, searching etc. are airline employees or subcontractors. Now we're gonna get into governmental types doing the screening........ I wonder if somebody won't say that government employees can't search without.....PC, warrant, reasonable articulable suspicion that the person to be searched is armed. I can't quote case law but I believe in the past SCOTUS has indicated that unlike other forms of travel air travel is much more suseptible to a sabotage with deadly results, so security must be measured against what the rasonable risks of having a hijacker, terrorist, or just nutso passenger aboard an airplane with the ability to cause a catastrophic mid-air incident. I think it still is based on the premise that if you want to fly you have to "volunteer" to be screened, or you can volunteer not to fly. As far as FAA edicts...... the airlines can follow them and fly planes, or not follow them and not fly planes. The FAA has regulatory powers over passenger flights for several reasons I'm sure but paramount would be: 1) "airspace" is public property, they manage it so that private citizens and commercial airlines have a fair access to that public resource. 2) The government regualtes anything that could put members of the public at risk, in this case either being a passenger in an unsafe plane, or getting hit by it when it stops flying over my house. 3) It's interstate commerce and the Constitution says the federal government can regulate interstate commerce. Can you tell I am conflicted about airport security and federalizing the security force(s)??
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:33:48 AM EDT
She could have just been a whiney little B!tch. but if my fiance goes behind a curtain and comes out crying I'm going behind the curtain and he's coming out bloody. Most men aren't going to let another man touch their sig. other to a point that they cry without doing something. In the real world male cops are often not allowed to do an evasive search of a female subject. Those are real police officers and not some retared moron rent-a-cop. They SHOULD have females frisking everyone, that way there can't really be any complaints by anyone.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:58:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Guncrazy223: She could have just been a whiney little B!tch. but if my fiance goes behind a curtain and comes out crying I'm going behind the curtain and he's coming out bloody. Most men aren't going to let another man touch their sig. other to a point that they cry without doing something. In the real world male cops are often not allowed to do an evasive search of a female subject. Those are real police officers and not some retared moron rent-a-cop. They SHOULD have females frisking everyone, that way there can't really be any complaints by anyone.
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"retared moron rent-a-cop" is that a rent -a- cop that has lost his tar and has to be retared? [:D] I feel that way some days! I like your idea about all female officers doing the searches.[bounce]
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 10:00:13 AM EDT
[img]http://www.watchersweb.com/f7414.jpg[/img]
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