Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/12/2014 2:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 3:44:18 PM EDT by wingnutx]
Excerpted:

Hillary Clinton would have been more cautious when dealing with Republicans, and therefore ultimately more successful in some ways. At the very least, she would not be facing the same level of vehement opposition in Congress.


I think that Hillary Clinton would have pulled back when Rahm Emanuel (or his counterfactual Clinton administration counterpart) told her that this was a political loser and she should drop it. I’ve written before about how my Twitter feed filled up with comparisons to 1932 the night that Obama took the presidency, and it’s quite clear to me that the Obama administration shared what you might call delusions of FDR. It thought that it was in a transformative, historical moment where the normal rules of political caution didn’t apply. The administration was wrong, and the country paid for that.


Progressives might well say that they’d rather have the first two years of the Obama administration, followed by gridlock, than steadier but more modest achievements by a Hillary Clinton administration. And that doesn’t even get us into foreign policy, where the differences were deeper and more passionate.


If Hillary Clinton had won, Obamacare wouldn’t have happened, and Democrats -- and the country -- would be better off.

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:23:11 PM EDT
Can't argue with that.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:24:09 PM EDT
If Hillary or Romney was president, we would have a new AWB to deal with.

Like them or hate them (guess which?), they are both fairly effective.

Obama is...a worthless douche with halfway decent handlers.

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:25:59 PM EDT
Obama is better than Hillary. Clinton would have had the wherewithal to make things happen--things we wouldn't WANT to have happen.

Thankfully our president is woefully lazy and misguided.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:28:57 PM EDT
Agreed, but she didn't win.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:30:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
If Hillary or Romney was president, we would have a new AWB to deal with.
View Quote


No. Just. No.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:31:51 PM EDT
So the point is to have a MORE effective liberal getting even more regulations shoved down our throats?

That's like choosing between a shit sandwich and shit soup.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:31:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Obama is better than Hillary. Clinton would have had the wherewithal to make things happen--things we wouldn't WANT to have happen.

Thankfully our president is woefully lazy and misguided.
View Quote


She would not have pushed through a healthcare law the way he did. Her foreign policy would be a bit better.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:35:06 PM EDT
Hillary would be a nightmare for gun owners -- worse than Obama. And she's still a threat as long as her electoral prospects are open for 2016.

Some people are nostalgic for Hillary based on some of her recent statements regarding arming the secular Syrian rebels. Don't be fooled.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:35:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:


She would not have pushed through a healthcare law the way he did. Her foreign policy would be a bit better.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Obama is better than Hillary. Clinton would have had the wherewithal to make things happen--things we wouldn't WANT to have happen.

Thankfully our president is woefully lazy and misguided.


She would not have pushed through a healthcare law the way he did. Her foreign policy would be a bit better.


You're absolutely right she wouldn't have; she'd have worked to implement it in a manner that wouldn't have imploded, which is a horrifying prospect. It would have been single-payer, or very close to it. Clinton is political royalty. Repubs would NEVER take off the gloves to duke it out with her, Dems would trip over themselves to lockstep behind her.

Foreign policy? Like Benghazi?
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:38:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 2:38:45 PM EDT by morglan]
No.

If Hillary had beaten Obama, we would've had 8 years of Hillary and THEN 8 years of Obama.

By electing the Kenyan first, i belive there is a (slight) chance that the beast doesn't have a shot--because of her age and health problems.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:41:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By morglan:
No.

If Hillary had beaten Obama, we would've had 8 years of Hillary and THEN 8 years of Obama.
By electing the Kenyan first, i belive there is a (slight) chance that the beast doesn't have a shot--because of her age and health problems.
View Quote


woa, that a scary thought right there.

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:43:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlamTX:
So the point is to have a MORE effective liberal getting even more regulations shoved down our throats?

View Quote

That's not even close to being the point.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:44:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 2:44:56 PM EDT by DonS]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
[You're absolutely right she wouldn't have; she'd have worked to implement it in a manner that wouldn't have imploded, which is a horrifying prospect. It would have been single-payer, or very close to it. Clinton is political royalty. Repubs would NEVER take off the gloves to duke it out with her, Dems would trip over themselves to lockstep behind her.

Foreign policy? Like Benghazi?
View Quote


The reason we don't have single payer is because they knew it wouldn't pass. Obamacare is a mess because it represents all the BS they put in it to pass the Senate. Clinton would have had no way to implement a well devised healthcare plan. The option she would face would be garbage or nothing. She would have settled for nothing and gone for poll numbers, and Bill would had advized her to do so as well. Obama went with garbage.

Yeah, I think her foreign policy would have been better then Obama's and Kerry's. Libyia was one of the few things she pushed for, and it was a mess, but on balance I think she would have done a better job, she has a more realistic understanding of the world.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:46:28 PM EDT
Shows how much I know. I hoped Obama would beat Hillary in the primaries, figuring his relative newcomer/outsider status would prevent him from getting anything done if he won the general election. I thought Hillary, the Hell Bitch, having been around and working the levers of government for so long, was much more dangerous to my interests. She's a centrist in comparison to Obama.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:47:45 PM EDT
Just the assclowns setting the stage for Clinton to run in '16.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 2:50:33 PM EDT
they both suck.

hillary would have been more to the center, but more effective in her pursuits.

seems like a wash to me.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:19:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wingnutx:
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wingnutx:
Originally Posted By AlamTX:
So the point is to have a MORE effective liberal getting even more regulations shoved down our throats?


That's not even close to being the point.

The article ends with:

To my mind, however, that would have been a much better outcome for everyone. So there’s my counterfactual for the summer: If Hillary Clinton had won, Obamacare wouldn’t have happened, and Democrats -- and the country -- would be better off.


Except HillaryCare was supposed to have mandate from day one.

We would have had a lot more success by the democrats under Hillary. I don't know about you, but I don't consider that better. Foreign policy? Who the hell knows? She sure didn't do a whiz bang job as secretary of state.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:22:57 PM EDT
Get neither
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:25:15 PM EDT
I think Obama was a one trick pony, other than that he hasn't been able to accomplish shit and has to keep breaking the law to do anything. Unfortunately, he was really good at getting that one trick through Congress.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:29:27 PM EDT
Hindsight's a bitch. They wanted change and they fucking got it.




Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:30:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 3:31:09 PM EDT by Warpiper]
When ANY democrat wins, America and freedom lose.



Fuck ALL democrats. End the DNC.

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:31:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By morglan:
No.

If Hillary had beaten Obama, we would've had 8 years of Hillary and THEN 8 years of Obama.

By electing the Kenyan first, i belive there is a (slight) chance that the beast doesn't have a shot--because of her age and health problems.
View Quote


And then 8 years of Warren, followed by 8 years of Castro...
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:32:39 PM EDT
There was no win for mankind with either one of them.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:33:28 PM EDT
This is the angle folks are trying to use to drum up support for Hillary?

Really?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:33:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:34:18 PM EDT
operation chaos
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:41:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skebe:
This is the angle folks are trying to use to drum up support for Hillary?

Really?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote

So a Republican examining how Obama has been worse than even Hillary would have been is drumming up support for Hillary?

That's stupid.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:45:20 PM EDT
Using the term niggling in a negative article about Obama sounds wacist to me.

I'm offended.





Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:50:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wingnutx:
Excerpted:

[div style='margin-left: 40px;']Hillary Clinton would have been more cautious when dealing with Republicans, and therefore ultimately more successful in some ways. At the very least, she would not be facing the same level of vehement opposition in Congress.






I think that Hillary Clinton would have pulled back when Rahm Emanuel (or his counterfactual Clinton administration counterpart) told her that this was a political loser and she should drop it. I’ve written before about how my Twitter feed filled up with comparisons to 1932 the night that Obama took the presidency, and it’s quite clear to me that the Obama administration shared what you might call delusions of FDR. It thought that it was in a transformative, historical moment where the normal rules of political caution didn’t apply. The administration was wrong, and the country paid for that.






Progressives might well say that they’d rather have the first two years of the Obama administration, followed by gridlock, than steadier but more modest achievements by a Hillary Clinton administration. And that doesn’t even get us into foreign policy, where the differences were deeper and more passionate.







If Hillary Clinton had won, Obamacare wouldn’t have happened, and Democrats -- and the country -- would be better off.




View Quote


You're right, it would be called Hillarycare, and whats with the bullshit pro hillary crap? Is it suppose to help her get support for her run at COTUS.

It should be "when democrats win, we all lose"
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:52:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 3:54:13 PM EDT by RogueSpear2023]
We would some how been worse off with Hilary or Romney either of them would have wiped the 2A off the bill of rights Hillary because she wants it and Romney because he is a fool. Obama thankfully has the tactician skills of Hitler and has done nothing the last 6 yrs except turn the whole country against him. When Zerocare kicks in fully in 2016 I doubt the Dems will get the presidency and a repeal will be certain.

Obama and the Democrats last hope is amnesty for illegals its the only way they will get enough votes in 2016
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:54:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 3:59:03 PM EDT
We would have also lost with Clinton and we would have lost with McCain.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:02:59 PM EDT
Hillary would be worse. Hillary is just as Communist as he is, and would be twice as effective.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:04:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:05:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2014 4:06:42 PM EDT by IndyGunFreak]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:


She would not have pushed through a healthcare law the way he did. Her foreign policy would be a bit better.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Obama is better than Hillary. Clinton would have had the wherewithal to make things happen--things we wouldn't WANT to have happen.

Thankfully our president is woefully lazy and misguided.


She would not have pushed through a healthcare law the way he did. Her foreign policy would be a bit better.


I never thought I'd say anything good about Hillary Cilnton, but I tend to agree w/ you here. During the primaries running up to the 08 election, I voted a Democrat ticket in the primary because Obama absolutely scared the hell out of me, and I wanted Hillary to win the Democratic nomination. Not that I thought McCain was a great choice (he had the nomination locked up by the time we voted).. but man I'd have asked for one of the 3 Stooges over Obama.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:10:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By morglan:
No.

If Hillary had beaten Obama, we would've had 8 years of Hillary and THEN 8 years of Obama.

By electing the Kenyan first, i belive there is a (slight) chance that the beast doesn't have a shot--because of her age and health problems.
View Quote


Nope, it was entirely intentional. The Dem strategists are pretty smart folks. They watched in the back ground during the primaries to see how voters reacted to different "issues" with the platform. If you recall, Hillary's platform wasn't significantly different than Obama. I think the big difference was that Hillary was the "establishment" and Obama was the up and coming guy with "fresh new ideas for hope and change" with the charisma to sell it. They knew then and know now that Obama was and is completely unqualified for the job. His incompetence is making Hillary look "good" despite her pretty serious screw ups in her post as SOS in Obama's administration. They new Obama wouldn't get everything through in one fell swoop, but that he would very effectively divide the country on several social issues. The effect of that division is now an even stronger Left, with the Right now doing damage control to try to win over those in the "center." Guess what....compared to Obama, Hillary suddenly looks more "moderate" and thus has a legitimate change at scoring significant amounts of centrist votes.

To win just about every fight one must divide and conquer. Obama did the dividing, now Hillary will conquer. It is going to take an extraordinary effort to get a Conservative in the White House in 2016. The Dem's have bought too many votes by further bolstering government entitlements and getting more folks dependent on Uncle Sugar. I'm not sure how a conservative could possibly sway any of those folks back to a self sufficient model.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:27:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jblomenberg16:
Nope, it was entirely intentional. The Dem strategists are pretty smart folks. They watched in the back ground during the primaries to see how voters reacted to different "issues" with the platform. If you recall, Hillary's platform wasn't significantly different than Obama. I think the big difference was that Hillary was the "establishment" and Obama was the up and coming guy with "fresh new ideas for hope and change" with the charisma to sell it. They knew then and know now that Obama was and is completely unqualified for the job. His incompetence is making Hillary look "good" despite her pretty serious screw ups in her post as SOS in Obama's administration. They new Obama wouldn't get everything through in one fell swoop, but that he would very effectively divide the country on several social issues. The effect of that division is now an even stronger Left, with the Right now doing damage control to try to win over those in the "center." Guess what....compared to Obama, Hillary suddenly looks more "moderate" and thus has a legitimate change at scoring significant amounts of centrist votes.

To win just about every fight one must divide and conquer. Obama did the dividing, now Hillary will conquer. It is going to take an extraordinary effort to get a Conservative in the White House in 2016. The Dem's have bought too many votes by further bolstering government entitlements and getting more folks dependent on Uncle Sugar. I'm not sure how a conservative could possibly sway any of those folks back to a self sufficient model.
View Quote


Eh, no. Hillary could have won just as well against McCain in '08 (although that is partly 20/20 hindsight; as it was with Palin as VP McCain was close to Obama in the polls until the financial crisis hit). She has less chance in '16.

I think it would have been a better bet for them to win with Clinton '08 then win with Obama in '16. Obama's "change" would work against Clinton, too.

The left does not tend to run qualified candidates. Kerry was their '04 choice and his executive experience consisted of commanding 5 guys 35 years prior. His runner up, Edwards, had no executive experience. In '08, neither Hillary nor Obama any executive experience of significance.

Hillary would not have pushed through Obamacare. She would have backed off to protect her popularity. Obama didn't push it through will skill or hard work, he sat back and let Reid push it, like a giant turd, through the bowls of the Senate. It really should be called Reidcare.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:41:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:


The reason we don't have single payer is because they knew it wouldn't pass. Obamacare is a mess because it represents all the BS they put in it to pass the Senate. Clinton would have had no way to implement a well devised healthcare plan. The option she would face would be garbage or nothing. She would have settled for nothing and gone for poll numbers, and Bill would had advized her to do so as well. Obama went with garbage.

Yeah, I think her foreign policy would have been better then Obama's and Kerry's. Libyia was one of the few things she pushed for, and it was a mess, but on balance I think she would have done a better job, she has a more realistic understanding of the world.
View Quote

In a nutshell.

We would not have had the clusterfuck withdrawal from Iraq.

She's an evil, self-serving bitch, but not a deluded and messianic one. Her self interest would simply have coincided more with our national interests better than Obama's.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:47:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheLion:
I think Obama was a one trick pony, other than that he hasn't been able to accomplish shit and has to keep breaking the law to do anything. Unfortunately, he was really good at getting that one trick through Congress.
View Quote


pretty easy to do when Dems controlled both houses of congress
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:50:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rod727:


pretty easy to do when Dems controlled both houses of congress
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rod727:
Originally Posted By TheLion:
I think Obama was a one trick pony, other than that he hasn't been able to accomplish shit and has to keep breaking the law to do anything. Unfortunately, he was really good at getting that one trick through Congress.


pretty easy to do when Dems controlled both houses of congress

He blew his wad on that, throwing his majority under the bus. If he'd tried and failed that would have been awesome. As it is that recklessness really screwed us long-term.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:52:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

In a nutshell.

We would not have had the clusterfuck withdrawal from Iraq.

She's an evil, self-serving bitch, but not a deluded and messianic one. Her self interest would simply have coincided more with our national interests better than Obama's.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wingnutx:
Originally Posted By DonS:


The reason we don't have single payer is because they knew it wouldn't pass. Obamacare is a mess because it represents all the BS they put in it to pass the Senate. Clinton would have had no way to implement a well devised healthcare plan. The option she would face would be garbage or nothing. She would have settled for nothing and gone for poll numbers, and Bill would had advized her to do so as well. Obama went with garbage.

Yeah, I think her foreign policy would have been better then Obama's and Kerry's. Libyia was one of the few things she pushed for, and it was a mess, but on balance I think she would have done a better job, she has a more realistic understanding of the world.

In a nutshell.

We would not have had the clusterfuck withdrawal from Iraq.

She's an evil, self-serving bitch, but not a deluded and messianic one. Her self interest would simply have coincided more with our national interests better than Obama's.


Bush already signed the SOFA, what happened was going to no matter who was elected.

A healthcare law would have passed either way, it was shoved down our throats with the "we have to pass it to see what's in it". You think if Clinton got elected they would have listened to people, or gave a shit?
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:57:55 PM EDT
I think we were destined to suffer a loss in the 1st "big ticket item" Obama/Clinton latched onto after getting elected. Obviously that was obamacare...if Clinton had won who knows what the 1st big issue would have been; Guns? Immigration? A carte blanch, obamacare-sized shit sandwich aimed at gun rights would have been dramatic and permanent in nature.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:00:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:


Bush already signed the SOFA, what happened was going to no matter who was elected. We could have renegotiated it with a little bit of effort. Obama sent Biden to make sure that didn't happen.

A healthcare law would have passed either way, it was shoved down our throats with the "we have to pass it to see what's in it". You think if Clinton got elected they would have listened to people, or gave a shit? Her self-preservation instincts are better than that, so yes she would have given a shit for her own reasons. Witness how quickly they retreated from 'Hillary-Care' in the 90s.
View Quote

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:01:40 PM EDT
having to produce a valid id at a voting station and a stargate attached to the front door of a western union would solve 2 of this countries biggest problems.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:01:59 PM EDT
The real question is would we be 17 trillion in debt and headed into the abyss.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:07:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By skebe:
This is the angle folks are trying to use to drum up support for Hillary?

Really?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote



My thoughts also. They are so desperate trying to get that other critter going that even the lame "she wouldn't had been so bad" is in their repertoire.

Well... problem is the kenyan already broke enough stuff that we will need several real Presidents to fix, not another like it.






Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:08:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
If Hillary or Romney was president, we would have a new AWB to deal with.

View Quote


Wow. You'd win derp of the day if not for the window licker in another thread equating the savages rioting and looting in St. Louis to the Founding Fathers.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:13:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PRK_Saboteur:
Can't argue with that.
View Quote


I can. Hillary is just as much of a Lefty as Obama is. All Bill cared about is getting laid, SHE was the evil one behind that throne.

Hell, she mentored under Saul Alinsky himself.

Read "Hell To Pay," by the late Barbara Olsen (she was killed on 9-11 when her plane was crashed into the WTC.)

She needs to stay FAR as possible from the WH.
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:24:29 PM EDT
When he said "change", I don't think most people realized he meant 10 cents on the dollar...
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 5:28:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rossi:



My thoughts also. They are so desperate trying to get that other critter going that even the lame "she wouldn't had been so bad" is in their repertoire.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By skebe:
This is the angle folks are trying to use to drum up support for Hillary?




My thoughts also. They are so desperate trying to get that other critter going that even the lame "she wouldn't had been so bad" is in their repertoire.


Damn those Hillary supporters at Newsmax.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top