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Posted: 5/22/2002 5:10:06 AM EDT
This is just to piggyback on the income tax rant.  When do you feel a family of 4 is considered rich?  

Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:20:14 AM EDT
But I have to say, If you can't make it on $750,000 per year, you can't make it at all.

Edited fer spellin'
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:21:33 AM EDT
When they have more than you.

Seriously, it is a matter of perspective.  I think it is when they have money beyond their needs adequate to gamble the stock market, send their kids to expensive out of state colleges etc.

To someone living on minimum wage it is anybody with a decent job.  To some guy pulling down $200,00 a year it is something different, even though he is in the top few percent of incomes.

As an example, Bill Gates falls into the obscene catagory!  Has, what, 20 Billion or so?  Anybody with way more than they can possibley spend is clearly wealthy.   You have to wonder how much he REALLY pays in taxes!  (Probably zero or nearly so.)

Tax laws are written by congress.  All congress critters are rich.  (Like top 5% of incomes due to their salary alone, before they steal millions more.)  How do you THINK they will write tax law?
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:22:55 AM EDT
Why not go for the max?
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:35:35 AM EDT
$300,000.00 plus a year and over would be considered 'rich' in my worldview.

And their taxes should be the same as everyone else's - a straight 17% across the board.

And I don't particularly care how they earned their money.

That's their business, not mine.

I'd rather have a sales tax, just to be able to tax the 'underground' economy, but that ain't gonna happen anytine soon.

Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:43:28 AM EDT
Now if you want this as a tax thread....  I suggest total exemption for the first $40k, followed by 20% on ALL additional income.  No deductions, no exemptions, nada.  Includes insurance, settlements, gifts, inheritance, capital gains, bribes etc.  FICA needs to be part of this as well.  No stupid "caps".

Ever wonder what the FICA tax percentage would have to be to fully fund the program if it were NOT the most regressive tax in America?  What I mean is no cap and ALL income, regardless of source, taxed at same rate!  Maybe 4%?
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:50:20 AM EDT
$200k doesn't go that far for a family of 2, especially after the tax hits, so I think $300k would be the minimum for a family of 4.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:56:46 AM EDT
If you read the book "The Millionaire Next Door"
its not so much what you earn, but how much
in savings/investments you have accumulated...because
it is a reflection of how well you
use money. The author's standard was that if you have
(10% of your current salary)*(current age) in
savings/assets you are considered "rich" for
your income range. E.x.. if you are
30 years old and make 40k per year, your
savings/investments should be 120k to be considered "rich". That's a tough
standard to meet but it seems more feasible than
becoming a millionaire in one lifetime ...
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:00:10 AM EDT
As Mickey Mouse said, it's a matter of perspective.

And from my perspective anyone in the $50,000-$99,000 range is pretty  close to "rich." Anything over is "obscenely rich."
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:12:10 AM EDT
It's when you feel you are.

Although I don't consider myself rich finacially, I do personally. I only make around 25,000 a yr. but I have my health, a roof over my head and enough to have a little fun and have some extras once and awhile. I've often dreamt about winning the lottery, but I don't think it would make me any happeir than I am now and might even cause more problems.

I think there is a really strange middle ground to income where the part the govt takes almost isn't worth the effort.


Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:14:13 AM EDT
From Webster's Dictionary:
Rich: having abundant possessions and especially material wealth.  Rich implies having more than enough to gratify normal needs or desires.

Anything north of $50,000 a year is pretty rich.  That's roughly the median income for a family of four in the richest nation in the history of the earth.  And the average family in America today certainly has abundant possessions.  A house, two cars, a television, a microwave, a washing machine and dryer, a dishwasher, a refrigerator, a personal computer, furniture, toys, the ability to eat out and go to movies.  The list could go on and on.  We have a lot to be thankful for.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:17:28 AM EDT
I define "rich" in a dynamic instead of a static context.  It's difficult to compare costs of living in say San Fran with North Texas so defining the term in raw dollars is deceptive.

To me being rich is when doubling your income will not dramatically affect your basic "lifestyle".  In other words when you would not change your friends, your living location or the cars you drive.  If your income doubles and those things don't change then to me you are rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:21:12 AM EDT
Well, I think one is wealthy when he reaches a standard or living he is content with, and his assets are greater than his liabilities.  Also, he should be able to live at that standard of living for at least one year with no income.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:25:46 AM EDT
A state of being for me. When someone is content with who and what they are. Where they live, material needs and possessions are met. Those who always want more, will never be rich...
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:39:03 AM EDT
I think Arock hit the nail on the head, for me anyway...

When I lived in northern western MI, I made 2/3 what I make now in south eastern MI.  However, disregarding the cost of living increase which occurred with the move, which did not eat up the extra pay; I think I was "richer" in NW MI.

There I had roots in the community, lots of friends helped me out when I was laid off.  My best friends in the whole world were within a hours drive. I could go swimming on some of the finest freshwater beaches in the world.  I had so many lakes to choose from I never did fish or boat them all while I lived there.  Michigan's best areas for skiing, mountain biking, hunting and a host other outdoor activities were within a quick drive away.

Here in SE MI it's all city.  You have to plan for a long drive to do many of the outdoor activities I listed and then be prepared to fight the crowds.  The community is so big I don't think I'll ever develop the close ties to the people here the way I did up north.

Yep, money alone doesn't make you rich. (Sigh)

Link Posted: 5/22/2002 7:01:20 AM EDT
When money works for its owner instead of the other way around, I think that's the definition of rich.

To me, anyone who makes $100,000 or more a year from interest income is rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:05:33 AM EDT

My definition of rich is when the income from your assets is enough to pay your liabilities and live the life style you want without working.  

By assets I mean investments, retirements funds, stock, options, real estate anything that bring in money.  I define liabilities as anything that requires money, cost of living, car payments, mortgage, food, clothing etc.

So I feel being rich means you are financially independent and the amount of money needed to this varies according to the individual needs and lifestyle.



Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:08:35 AM EDT
You are "rich" when you can quit working altogather and still buy the things you want.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:15:06 AM EDT
AR15fan said it best. If you can live comfortably and don't have to work you are rich, IMO. If you work, I don't consider you rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:53:01 AM EDT
None of the choices would be considered rich.

With a family of four about $10,000/month net of taxes would provide a comfortable but not 'rich' lifestyle.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:53:06 AM EDT
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, and Warren Buffet work. So under your definition, they're not rich, right?
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:57:52 AM EDT
No raven, I would not consider them rich. They have more money than I will ever have but they still leave their families behind to go to a job each day. I work to provide for my family. If I could spend every minute with them and maintain my current lifestyle, I would be rich.

It's relative.You may admire these men for their riches. I pity them for their greed.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:59:44 AM EDT
I've heard it said this way:

To turn $100.00 into $110.00 requires hard work.

To turn $100 Million in to $110 Million is inevitable!

Oooh, that hurts, doesn't it?

Eric The(NotJealousOneLittleBit)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 9:04:01 AM EDT
long I'd biddy biddy bum
If I were a wealthy man

I wouldn't have to work hard
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum
If I were a biddy biddy rich
Deedle daidle deedle daidle man

I'd build a big tall house
With rooms by the dozen
Right in the middle of town
A fine tin roof with real wooden floors below
There could be one long staircase just going up
And one even longer coming down
And one more leading
Nowhere just for show

I'd fill my yard with chicks
And turkeys and geese and ducks
For the town to see and hear
Squawking just as noisily as they can
And each loud quack and cluck
And gobble and honk
Will land like a trumpet on the ear
As if to say here lives a wealthy man

If I were a rich man
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum
If I were a wealthy man

I wouldn't have to work hard
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum
If I were a biddy biddy rich
Deedle daidle deedle daidle man

I see my wife, my Golde,
Looking like a rich man's wife
With a proper double chin;
Supervising meals to her heart's delight
I see her putting on airs
And strutting like a peacock
Oy! What a happy mood she's in
Screaming at the servants day and night

If I were rich I'd have the time that I lack
To sit in the synagogue and pray
And maybe have a seat by the eastern wall
And I'd discuss the holy books
With the learned men
Seven hours hour every day
That could be the sweetest thing of all

The most important men in town
Will come to fawn on me
They will ask me to advise them
Like a Solomon the wise
"If you please Reb Tevye,
Pardon me Reb Tevye"
Posing problems that would cross
The rabbi's eyes

And it won't make one bit of difference
If I answer right or wrong
When you're rich,
They think you really know

If I were a rich man
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum
If I were a wealthy man

I wouldn't have to work hard
Daidle deedel daidle deedle daidle dum
If I were a biddy biddy rich
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum

If I were a rich man
Daidle deedle daidle deedle daidle dum
Lord who made the lion and the lamb
You decreed I should be what I am
Would it spoil some vast eternal plan
If I were a wealthy man?

Jerry Bock - Sheldon Harnick

Link Posted: 5/22/2002 10:25:02 AM EDT
Here is a simple test:

If you can wake up in the morning and DECIDE not to go to work that day, and NOT have it impact your life, then you are rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 10:33:59 AM EDT
The true difference between the wealthy and the poor is not actual funds, it's how the funds are used.  My neighbor up the road is a retired Chicago police officer (not making much money in a city that is very expensive to live) and his wife is a retired RN.  They are millionaires.  Why?  They saved money like all get out, waited to have children until they were completely solvent, and invested money very wisely.

Poor folk spend money stupidly.  IOW, the poor are poor not because of some horrible rich folk conspiracy, they are poor because they are stupid.

I would say that the amount of money makes is really a function of [b]where[/b] you live.  Around here, $30,000 a year can get you enough to have a nice house, some land, a good car, and still have toy money left over (or saving money if you want to retire wealthy).  Anybody making $100,000 a year in this area is rich.  Also, salary seems to correspond quite nicely with wise life decisions (i.e. the smart people who make good decisions make more money).  Given that I've already stated that monetary wealth is related to intelligent decisions, I'd say that the more money you make, the smarter you are, and therefor the more likely to be rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 10:39:27 AM EDT
When the total current market value of all your guns exceeds by 2x the combined worth of your house and car(s). You know, just like SteyrAug.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 12:03:49 PM EDT

This is EXACTLY why the income tax and the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is unjust, immoral and destructive to our society.

It breeds covetousness, jealousy and rationalized thievery.

There are very few things more insidiously destructive to a civil society than for masses of people working in concert to invade the privacy of individuals (at gunpoint even) for the sole purpose of confiscating their earnings.

A society of "WE THE PEOPLE" have no more right to inspect the contents of my wallet or my weekly paycheck and steal X% of what I earn any more than any random person on the street has that right.

[b]For all those who post here saying we need a "flat income tax" of 10% or 17% or whatever percent - you are nothing more than common thieves, useful idiots and the unthinking tools of freedom-stealing collectivists![pissed]

HOW DARE YOU grab my paycheck from my hand, steal your "fairshare of 15%" and walk away patting yourselves on your fat asses thinking you're doing me a favor by being "fair".

[red]IT'S MY F@CKING MONEY!![/RED][/b]

Tyranny of the majority gives you NO moral right to confiscate my earnings any more than you have a moral right to confiscate my guns!

What a thoroughly dumbed-down group of people we have here who just go along with the whole concept of income tax (but just dicker over percentages) because they were just born yesterday and don't even THINK about the fact that income tax is legalized stealing!
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 12:35:27 PM EDT
Wow, I have made 60+K each of the last 3 years. I don't know what I'll make this year. I'm surprised at the posts tha mark me as "rich". I consider myself in the middle of middle class.

I think 300K is certainly getting into that rich category.

I also agree with E-T-H about the $100 to $110 vs. $100M-$110M.

If you have a million dollars invested and you get a 5% return on it, that is $50,000 in interest.

There is a certain point that after you have a few dollars you would have to be an idiot to touch the principle.

It is a lot tougher when you are living paycheck to paycheck, and then your car dies.......
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 12:49:31 PM EDT
If you think of wealth in terms of money you'll never understand and you'll never be rich.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 2:06:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:20:28 PM EDT
I'm happy, so I guess I'm rich!
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:49:07 PM EDT
the gov't thinks it is when you have money left to pay more taxes with.

using income only, $300k,
with a fair and equitable tax code, probably drop that to $200k
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 7:04:28 PM EDT
If you think of wealth in terms of money you'll never understand and you'll never be rich.
View Quote

When you have met someone that you love and want to spend the rest of your life with.....  That's when you're rich.

Mike  <-- poor
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 7:43:50 PM EDT
there's a problem with that, what if they don't want to spend the rest of their life with you? [:D]
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:09:17 PM EDT
It appears a lot of you think rich is whatever is more than what you currently have.  I would venture to say that most of you are wealthy and just not willing to enjoy it.

I guess the saying is true, "Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income."
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:43:51 PM EDT
When one makes 10k/yr, they think they need 30.
They make 30, then want 100.
At 100, think 300 will make them happy.
Make 300, but need to make a million.
1 goes to 3.
3 goes to 10.
10 goes to 30.

Watched a friend go from a wheelbarrow in a pickup truck,
to one of the largest commercial renters in the city, inside of a decade.
Last year his salary was over 2-mil, while his net worth was dozen multiplied.
Happily, he is a good family man, and giving back to the community.
Keep telling him to slow down, and breathe.

Happiness isn't so much getting what you want - it's wanting what you have.

No matter how much money, we all grow old and die.
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