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Posted: 6/17/2009 12:18:06 PM EST
I always see people shooting full auto weapons on youtube it looks like most them arnt legal.
Im just wondering if these people are moding these guns to be full auto and posting it or what.
If these are illegal im surprised noone reports it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:33:56 PM EST
Well, what makes you think they are illegal? Some are pretty obvious (IE the stereotypical thug life videos), but most of the ones I've seen look legitimate.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:37:16 PM EST
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:37:20 PM EST
I would say 90% of them are legit minus the afore mentioned "thug life" ones. A number of states are class 3 weapons states and some ranges will rent you full auto to shoot.

as for the non range full auto vids I am guessing they are private owners.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:37:43 PM EST
What does a legal full auto look like compared to an illegal full auto???
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:38:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Link please!!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:38:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"



That's to be transferable to civilians. I've gotten to shoot a lot of non-transferable firearms owned by manufacturers and dealers, the only sad thing is that you have to give them back :(
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:39:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 12:40:21 PM EST by Cypher15]
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
What does a legal full auto look like compared to an illegal full auto???


a govt form for each burst?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:39:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 12:42:24 PM EST by Interceptor_Knight]
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I always see people shooting full auto weapons on youtube it looks like most them arnt legal.
Im just wondering if these people are moding these guns to be full auto and posting it or what.
If these are illegal im surprised noone reports it.


It looks like ALL of them are legal to me.....
I assume that any full auto I see someone shoot is legal. It is none of my business if it were not ,as the last thing I would want to do is turn in someone for shooting full auto.
As far as I am concerned, they should eliminate the NFA and sell full autos next to the diapers and Jack Daniels like it is already legal to do with semiautos here in WI. Penalize for the behavior, not for owning the tool.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:39:52 PM EST
+1
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:40:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By AnnaTrocity:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"



That's to be transferable to civilians. I've gotten to shoot a lot of non-transferable firearms owned by manufacturers and dealers, the only sad thing is that you have to give them back :(


There are also some transferable Norrell trigger packs for 10/22s that can be put into any host gun you desire, including a Charger.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:41:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Link please!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BXI1Bsvgs

Hope he hides his dog!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:53:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By QwikKotaTx:
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Link please!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BXI1Bsvgs

Hope he hides his dog!


Thats the video i was watching.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:54:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
Originally Posted By QwikKotaTx:
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Link please!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BXI1Bsvgs

Hope he hides his dog!


Thats the video i was watching.


That guy is an NFA dealer. He can do that.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:54:41 PM EST
From the comments:

It's a Norrell registered trigger pack and bolt I got in 1988. It does fit in the ruger charger. No mods were done to the charger except dropping the bolt and trigger pack in it. You have to find a pre 1986 trigger pack that is on the registry..expect to pay about 9.5k for one...but the don't make any more.. Thanks JP


So there you go.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:12:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
What does a legal full auto look like compared to an illegal full auto???


Really.

Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:25:34 AM EST
There are tons of little manufacturers out there that make all kinds of stuff just to play with. A buddy put together a Sten kit he got from me not too long ago. They're called post samples.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:26:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


02/07 SOT can make full auto toys
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:39:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2009 5:40:30 AM EST by DriftPunch]
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Yes and no... '86 is the year of FOPA where the Hughes Ammendment, the code that essentially closed the Fully Transferable NFA Machine Gun database to civilans. Thus, no more could be registered as a Transferable after that time. This DOES NOT MEAN that pre '86 guns can be made fully automatic at will. The gun would have to exist (even if not complete) and transferable registration would have had to be completed before the closure of the database on that date in '86 for it to be fully transferable (the valuable type). The key word is transferable. A licensed NFA manufacturer can legally make what's called a 'sample' that belongs to him and nobody else. The definition of 'sample' also changed in '86, but that doesn't change the point. The point is that many of the guns you see being abused are samples, because they have little value. A 'transferable' AR receiver is over $10k(don't know current values, could be much more), whereas a 'sample' isn't worth really anything beyond the cost to assemble it, and in fact the only buyers could be other NFA dealers. There are more NFA involved dealers and manufacturers than one would think, and just about all have their play toys that they have no problem abusing. Nobody's going to fire a rare Fully Transferable AK until the wood catches fire, but a sample? Fire away...

To be clear FOPA was a pro gun bill, the Hughes Ammendment was added as a poison pill, but it went through anyway. You are likely unaware of how bad things sucked between the '68 GCA and the '86 FOPA. The '86 FOPA erased some of the damage that the '68 GCA did.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:54:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Yes and no... '86 is the year of FOPA where the Hughes Ammendment, the code that essentially closed the Fully Transferable NFA Machine Gun database to civilans. Thus, no more could be registered as a Transferable after that time. This DOES NOT MEAN that pre '86 guns can be made fully automatic at will. The gun would have to exist (even if not complete) and transferable registration would have had to be completed before the closure of the database on that date in '86 for it to be fully transferable (the valuable type). The key word is transferable. A licensed NFA manufacturer can legally make what's called a 'sample' that belongs to him and nobody else. The definition of 'sample' also changed in '86, but that doesn't change the point. The point is that many of the guns you see being abused are samples, because they have little value. A 'transferable' AR receiver is over $10k(don't know current values, could be much more), whereas a 'sample' isn't worth really anything beyond the cost to assemble it, and in fact the only buyers could be other NFA dealers. There are more NFA involved dealers and manufacturers than one would think, and just about all have their play toys that they have no problem abusing. Nobody's going to fire a rare Fully Transferable AK until the wood catches fire, but a sample? Fire away...

To be clear FOPA was a pro gun bill, the Hughes Ammendment was added as a poison pill, but it went through anyway. You are likely unaware of how bad things sucked between the '68 GCA and the '86 FOPA. The '86 FOPA erased some of the damage that the '68 GCA did.


to clarify for the OP, many transferable "machine guns" are actually conversion devises that may be legally put in guns like AR15's, FNC's, even S&W pistols to make them into MG's. many "new machineguns" may actually just be a new *host*, with a legal pre-86 conversion device in it.


Link Posted: 6/18/2009 5:57:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:10:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2009 6:12:20 AM EST by Gravity_Tester]
Elucidate upon what an "illegal" machine gun looks like.

Apparently, you don't have any friends who have 07 FFL's or SOTs...

Auto-sear on a G29 for the motherfucking WIN!

Though getting to rip off a couple bursts out of a Garwood M134 was pretty cool too...

Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:13:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By bullyforyou:
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Yes and no... '86 is the year of FOPA where the Hughes Ammendment, the code that essentially closed the Fully Transferable NFA Machine Gun database to civilans. Thus, no more could be registered as a Transferable after that time. This DOES NOT MEAN that pre '86 guns can be made fully automatic at will. The gun would have to exist (even if not complete) and transferable registration would have had to be completed before the closure of the database on that date in '86 for it to be fully transferable (the valuable type). The key word is transferable. A licensed NFA manufacturer can legally make what's called a 'sample' that belongs to him and nobody else. The definition of 'sample' also changed in '86, but that doesn't change the point. The point is that many of the guns you see being abused are samples, because they have little value. A 'transferable' AR receiver is over $10k(don't know current values, could be much more), whereas a 'sample' isn't worth really anything beyond the cost to assemble it, and in fact the only buyers could be other NFA dealers. There are more NFA involved dealers and manufacturers than one would think, and just about all have their play toys that they have no problem abusing. Nobody's going to fire a rare Fully Transferable AK until the wood catches fire, but a sample? Fire away...

To be clear FOPA was a pro gun bill, the Hughes Ammendment was added as a poison pill, but it went through anyway. You are likely unaware of how bad things sucked between the '68 GCA and the '86 FOPA. The '86 FOPA erased some of the damage that the '68 GCA did.


to clarify for the OP, many transferable "machine guns" are actually conversion devises that may be legally put in guns like AR15's, FNC's, even S&W pistols to make them into MG's. many "new machineguns" may actually just be a new *host*, with a legal pre-86 conversion device in it.




You're right, it can get confusing to a noob... Transferable Sears & Packs can give the illusion that a 'new' gun is legal. The reality is that as the ATF defines it, the registered sear or pack is the gun in those cases, not what you or I would consider as the gun, the host firearm.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:21:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bakelite47:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
Originally Posted By QwikKotaTx:
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


Link please!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2BXI1Bsvgs

Hope he hides his dog!


Thats the video i was watching.


That guy is an NFA dealer. He can do that.




Yeah he is a local guy, class three dealer. He has an auto trigger pack for Ruger 10/22s. He has some good videos.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:45:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
What does a legal full auto look like compared to an illegal full auto???


If it had a pre-86 FA trigger group wouldn't it be considered a pre-86 MG?
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:47:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
What does a legal full auto look like compared to an illegal full auto???


If it had a pre-86 FA trigger group wouldn't it be considered a pre-86 MG?


short answer: yes.


Link Posted: 6/18/2009 6:59:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


That could be a Norrel conversion, which is the registered part. It drops in a 10/22 reciever like an M16 Drop In Auto Sear, and would have been made prior to 1986. There are a lot of them out there.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 9:00:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By CornDogg723a:
I thought all full auto guns needed to be made before 1986 or somthing.
Ive seen alot newer then that shooting full auto. "Ruger Charger"


That could be a Norrel conversion, which is the registered part. It drops in a 10/22 reciever like an M16 Drop In Auto Sear, and would have been made prior to 1986. There are a lot of them out there.



I wouldn't say that there are a lot but there's more than a handful.



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