Reading some of the information that is contained on this site has definately educated me, and has opened my eyes to quite a few things that I was not aware of earlier.  However, there is one belief that I have that in my short period on this board I have not seen discussed.

If I recall correctly, one of the goals in the creation of the United States of America was to get away from having a monarchy, or in simpler terms, to get away from having a ruling class.  What I am wondering is whether the framers of the constitution believed that individuals elected to public office would serve their terms, viewing it as a civil duty, then once their terms are up go back to what ever they were doing before.

Or, did the framers see that we were giving up one form of a ruling class to create another ruling class?   Seeing how there are such individuals who make a career out of politics, it makes me wonder if this occurred to the fathers of our country that by not putting in some form of limits of how long an individual can serve, this would cause another ruling class to start up and be able to stay in power, even through family ties.

I personally believe that when the Constitution was written, it was believed that serving as a senator or representative would be a task to be undertaken, done to the best of one's ability, and then relinquished to allow someone else to try their hand.  

I remember from a book by Arthur C. Clark that in time period the book took place, every elected office was filled via lottery, with criminals and mentally unstable individuals unable to serve.  A good quote from the book was along the lines of "He who wishes to obtain public office should automatically be excluded from obtaining it."

Feel free to flame me as much as you want.

Nowhere in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence does it say we were trying to abolish the ruling class.  The theme seems to be the creation of a government that won't impede in your personal life and puruit of liberty, happiness and economic opprotunities.  Which is great, and the way it should be.

Anyway, if you think that today's ruling class are professional politicians, you're not looking deep enough.  Politicians are the servants of the real ruling class.  The president (no matter his party affiliation) is just their bitch.  

Thats why we have the second ammendment. So when our politicians get too far out of line we kill them and start with a new batch.

WMmitty I think you are mostly right. Also the politicans didn't have cushy jobs with great salaries and benefits like they do today. I doubt that Ben Franklin had teams of speach writers, polsters, and other lackeys to help him. The men back them got elected because of who they were and what they thought, not what they were told to be and think. Today we are a totally different society I believe for the worst not better.

I believe that William F. Buckley, Jr., once made the point that the first 535 names found in the Metropolitan Boston telephone book would make just as good an elective body as the one we pick out in elections.

I think he may be onto something, but I think the first 535 names in the Plano, Texas telephone directory would work just as well.[:D]

We are, however, a representative Republic and we should go through the motions of actually electing the schlubs who (purportedly) serve us!

Eric The(ButI'mOpenToAnySuggestions)Hun[>]:)]

I think Buckley said that he'd feel better if the government was advised by people randomly chosen from Boston rather than the 'best and brightest' from elite colleges like Harvard.

Actually, I wonder if there has been a serious attempt at starting a Constitution Convention in the states to redo the government of this country.  

Better still... What would occur if conventions were started in the states?  Would the Federal Government sit by and let the people attempt to do what is constitutionally guaranteed or would they attempt to ban such meetings as being a threat?

What's wrong with the United States is a lack of personal responsibility.  That will only return when "entitlement" programs end as that will decrease the percentage of the GDP that our government confiscates. When they have less of our stolen money to use against us they will have less control over us-both producers and consumers. Sure, it'll be tough for awhile but I think the human spirit, unencumbered by the ever tightening shackles of oppression and tyranny, will rise to the challenge and regain freedom and liberty. Hopefully, decency will follow.

Re: Constitutional Conventions

Please, no new Constitutional Convention.  With the state that the American voter is in, I doubt that much of the Bill of Rights would be approved.

Remember how difficult it was in getting the First Constitution ratified? Yeah, well it was only wealthy white male landowners voting on that one!

Well the next one won't be ratified quite that easily!

Eric The(Ain'tNothingWrongWithTheOneWeGot)Hun[>]:)]

I find it extremely comforting to encounter so many people with USMC affiliation that I can only describe as remarkably insightful and intelligent...

To me, it means that America's best and brightest are really protecting the freedoms we so dearly love...contrary to the opinion of so many.

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." Alexis de Tocqueville

America is fine, its the people living in it that is the problem.

Okay liberals are the problem, and I'm afraid they are starting to become the majority.

Liberals are becoming the majority. That is obvious, unfortunately. They propagate their own at the expense of the rest of us while using the might of the federal government to strangle the rights and freedoms of the rest of us. I ask, who has gotten more rights over the past 4-5 decades and who has gotten less? Further, it is liberals who have maintained that restricting our borders and controlling immigration are rascist, and therefore inherently evil concepts. When millions enter the country it is liberals standing at all the local social service offices that tell them not to worry, they will ensure that the rest of us pay for their survival. Now, who do you think they are going to vote for?

                                        Onfortunately, we DO have a "monarchy" of sorts....luckily, there is some sense of control in the house and senate....where MORALITY seems to need restructuring as of late.......the deal with the liberals is this....most of them are followers, as long as the current system supports thier cushy (yuppy?) lifestyle......as soon as it gets difficult for them, they move from one side or another, whichever looks like it will prevail (to them)....IF "us" gun guy types stuck together,got vocal and stood out like the "loud" liberal types, I believe we`d blow em` out of the water....look at how we`ve wrecked the stupid media polls lately....[:)]

Yeah, well Bill Clinton made $32,000.00 the year before he became President, started making $200,000.00 per annum (didn't they just raise it with Bush?), and now stands to make million$
in future speaking engagements, tours, books, etc.

But, yet, he'll continue to be Hillary's Bitch!

Eriv The([:D])Hun[>]:)]

"What's wrong with the United States"

COMMIES! We should kill them all[%(]

Speaking of the libs winds of change, didnt the Democrats speak something of backing off on gun control along with pushing more family values and such. Basically [b]appearing[/b] to become more conservative?

Yes, but as usual, their actions and words don't tend to mesh very well.

101_proof - Good handle

CALIFORNIA,NEW YORK,MASSACHUSSETS,KENNEDY,FEINSTEIN,DAVIS,CHUCKIE,BOXER.ETC.

This nation was founded on religious priciples.


This nation was'nt first settled for gun rights
or to escape a monarchy.The pilgrims came for
religious freedom.

Collectivly,as a society,we have not just turned
away from God,we have spit at him and slammed
the door in his face.Until we get on our knees'
and repent this country will continue to fall.

We refuse to let Him in our homes and schools
yet we cry out and curse Him when families
break up or a kid with a depraved mind gets
ahold of a gun.

We are such hippocrites,we scream in outrage
when our president has a extra maritial affair
in the white house but it is because of us that
he was there.


The main cause is not gun control,abortion,
excessive violence on television or violent
computer games.

These are simply symptoms of the real problem.

The reason we are going down the tubes as a
nation is because we have hardened our hearts
to God.

whew... I was getting worried...

Every conversation has to have at least one meaningless reference to some omnipotent being that you must "believe in".

Religious nuts are everywhere...they espouse morality and virtue while thier "leaders" gain notoriety for molesting children......

just be moral...do it on your own...you don't need some imaginary "being". Why do you think we have a personal accountability crisis here in the US... It's either God or the Devil that makes everyone do things....

I don't want to abolish or influence religion... for some it's constructive... however, it pisses me off when someone suggests that because I don't believe in "GOD", the world is a crappy place...

More likely, it's because you and your kind spend so much damn time and money trying to tell me what to think that you leave more important things by the way side....