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Posted: 10/31/2009 4:38:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 12:00:36 PM EST by armoredsaint]
It happened about three days ago, not sure what's going on. He's in no pain and he seems perfectly normal.

I will take him to the Vet on Monday to have it checked out. Did he possibly poked himself in the right eye and it looks a little recessed compared to the left one?





Here's his normal self a few weeks ago.



Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:40:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 4:40:48 PM EST by XDTX]
My oldest lab had a condition when she was young with her eyelids turning in. Had to have a minor surgery. How old is he?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:42:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By XDTX:
My oldest lab had a condition when she was young with her eyelids turning in. Had to have a minor surgery. How old is he?

he's almost 13 years old now, had him since he was 6 weeks old.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:42:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 4:46:18 PM EST by Bro2Wolf]
Hard to see. Could be Cherry eye. Easy fix.
Good Dog


ETA:: Now that I see the age..... may not be CE
I think Sniper is on it..
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:43:31 PM EST
my cat had that same problem the vet gave me some eye ointment and it cleared up in about 3 days.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:43:34 PM EST

Ectropion is a condition in dogs in which the lower eyelid rolls outward, giving the eye a loose or droopy appearance. The position of the eyelid exposes the internal lining, known as the palpebral conjunctiva. Ectropion may be seen in one or both eyes.


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5077782/bulldog-main_Full.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ehow.com/how_5092271_recognize-treat-ectropion-dogs.html&usg=__wUWXPyR9Dxe7-A9Fxj4MFHh2X7M=&h=399&w=600&sz=35&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=zsSBN5Kk61I3BM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddogs%2Beye%2Bseems%2Bto%2Bdroop%­26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1W1TSHB_enUS327%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Step 1Know the causes:
Ectropion can occur in any dog breed, but it considered an inherited characteristic in dog breeds such as the Basset Hound, Bloodhound, Cocker Spaniel, Clumber Spaniel, English Bulldog, Mastiff, Newfoundland, and St. Bernard. In other breeds, it is often seen in young dogs who have not yet matured into their facial structure and older dogs who are losing muscle tone.

Other causes of ectropion include marked weight loss, loss of muscle mass, injury to the eye or eyelid, chronic inflammation in the eye, surgical overcorrection of entropion (inward turning of the eyelid), and hypothyroidism. Temporary ectropion may be seen when the dog is fatigued after a hard day at play.

Step 2Know the symptoms:
Dogs with ectropion will have lower eyelids that roll forward, exposing the eye. The conjunctiva may appear red or inflamed due to dryness from exposure or irritation from foreign objects. The pouch that is formed by the eyelid can accumulate grass, dust, pollen or other items that will rub against the eye and the conjunctiva, causing the eye to produce excessive tears, thick discharge, or to become infected. In some cases, the cornea may show signs of inflammation or scarring.

Step 3Know how it is diagnosed:
Diagnosis of ectropion is made by visual examination. The veterinarian will check for other eye abnormalities or injuries. A test involving fluorescein dye may be done to determine if there has been damage done to the cornea. In older dogs, the veterinarian may do a complete blood and urine profile to rule out underlying health problems.

Step 4Know how it is treated:
Many dogs do not require treatment for ectropion. Dogs who suffer eye irritation due to ectropion normally respond well to eye lubrication drops and ointments. Antibiotics will be used to treat eye infections.

In cases where ectropion is due to underlying health problems, treatment will address the overall condition of the dog. Ectropion will generally correct itself once the animal has returned to normal health.

Intermittent ectropion associated with fatigue does not need to be treated.

Step 5Know when surgery is required:
The veterinarian may suggest surgery in severe cases where damage is being done to the cornea or conjunctiva.

The most common procedure is to make a small incision, remove a portion of the eyelid, and then suture the two sides of the incision together. This has the effect of shortening the eyelid and pulling it into proper position.

Step 6Know how to treat it at home:
Home treatment consists of providing the dog with good eye and facial hygiene. Watch the dog for signs of irritation and consult your veterinarian if the dog appears uncomfortable or if there are signs of infection. Administer all medication as directed by your veterinarian and keep all follow-up appointments.

If the dog has been treated by means of surgery, watch for any signs of irritation or infection. Prevent the animal from scratching at its eyes by using an Elizabethan (cone) dog collar. Your veterinarian will typically want to recheck the dog 10 to 14 days after surgery to make sure healing is progressing well and to remove the sutures.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:43:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bro2Wolf:
Hard to see. Could be Cherry eye. Easy fix.
Good Dog

please explain? i do worry more about him, than myself
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:43:50 PM EST
Some dogs stop producing tears as they grow older. Is the eye very dry looking?

A little saline solution could be a short term aid, but best to get him to the vet.

Best,
Sven
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:46:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By sniper1target:

snip

thank you.

i remember him poking himself in the eye several years ago when he was scratching his face and his fingernail got him
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:47:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By SvenFrost:
Some dogs stop producing tears as they grow older. Is the eye very dry looking?

A little saline solution could be a short term aid, but best to get him to the vet.

Best,
Sven

eyes are still producing tears and eye poop production is normal.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:12:06 PM EST
Looks like chemosis (swelling) of the lower conjunctiva, probably secondary to an allergy or irritation from a foreign body. You could try some Visine and then irrigating the eye with saline. Give it some time and it will probably clear up soon.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:20:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 5:23:17 PM EST by viper5194]
Does the skin around his eye look swollen or puffy? Could be an allergic reaction to somthing. Had my lab at the vet one day, she wears a gentle leder and shekept rubbing her face on the floor at the vets office trying to get the leader off. We left and by the time we got home she was breaking out in hives down her back. Gave her some benadryl and went to bed. the next morning her eye looked just like your dogs, , it was actualy the tissue around the eye swelling making it appear like the eye was recessed. Pumped more benedryl in her and rushed her to the vet. They in turn gave her some steroids and more benedryl and sent us home. She was fine two days later. Only thing we can figure is the vet washed her floor with somthing the dog was allergic to. Try a couple benedryl pills, they are safe for dogs. Can look up dosage on the net. If its an allergy they may help out. I think its like one pill per 10lbs but I usualy only give my dogs two, three at most. It does knock them on their ass....

Net says 1mg per pound of dog.. I usualy dont give them that much. 2 pills for your dog would be fine..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_Benadryl_can_you_give_a_dog
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:52:28 PM EST
I don't recommend Visine. Just constricts the blood vessels. No way to diagnose without exam of entire eye.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:53:56 PM EST
Good looking pooch you got there.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:07:45 PM EST
I don't recommend Visine. Just constricts the blood vessels.


Vasoconstriction with a decongestent and cold compresses are the treatment for non-specific conjunctival edema (chemosis). If you think it's an allergic conjunctivitis, then you could use Naphcon-A, which is a decongestent with an antihistimine.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 6:18:08 PM EST
what a good little bubby
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:02:30 PM EST
I'm a vet.
It looks like your dog has Horner's Syndrome- but go ahead and get him checked out... I can't test his reflexes with a keyboard.... ;)

-Hobbit
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:17:15 PM EST
That first pic looks a little like this

Does his eye react to close objects (i,e. blinking?)

Get him to a vet asap.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:20:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:34:10 PM EST
Could be some sort of infection that is causing this, go to your local pet store or livestock supply and get a tube of terramycin and try this for a day or two if you dont want to take hime to the vet immediately. It should be $15 or so.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:41:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By ar15lizard:
I don't recommend Visine. Just constricts the blood vessels.


Vasoconstriction with a decongestent and cold compresses are the treatment for non-specific conjunctival edema (chemosis). If you think it's an allergic conjunctivitis, then you could use Naphcon-A, which is a decongestent with an antihistimine.



There is no way to diagnose and responsibly recommend a treatment by a photo online.

Stick to humans.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:21:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By sniper1target:

Ectropion is a condition in dogs in which the lower eyelid rolls outward, giving the eye a loose or droopy appearance. The position of the eyelid exposes the internal lining, known as the palpebral conjunctiva. Ectropion may be seen in one or both eyes.


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5077782/bulldog-main_Full.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ehow.com/how_5092271_recognize-treat-ectropion-dogs.html&usg=__wUWXPyR9Dxe7-A9Fxj4MFHh2X7M=&h=399&w=600&sz=35&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=zsSBN5Kk61I3BM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddogs%2Beye%2Bseems%2Bto%2Bdroop%­26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1W1TSHB_enUS327%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Step 1Know the causes:
Ectropion can occur in any dog breed, but it considered an inherited characteristic in dog breeds such as the Basset Hound, Bloodhound, Cocker Spaniel, Clumber Spaniel, English Bulldog, Mastiff, Newfoundland, and St. Bernard. In other breeds, it is often seen in young dogs who have not yet matured into their facial structure and older dogs who are losing muscle tone.

Other causes of ectropion include marked weight loss, loss of muscle mass, injury to the eye or eyelid, chronic inflammation in the eye, surgical overcorrection of entropion (inward turning of the eyelid), and hypothyroidism. Temporary ectropion may be seen when the dog is fatigued after a hard day at play.

Step 2Know the symptoms:
Dogs with ectropion will have lower eyelids that roll forward, exposing the eye. The conjunctiva may appear red or inflamed due to dryness from exposure or irritation from foreign objects. The pouch that is formed by the eyelid can accumulate grass, dust, pollen or other items that will rub against the eye and the conjunctiva, causing the eye to produce excessive tears, thick discharge, or to become infected. In some cases, the cornea may show signs of inflammation or scarring.

Step 3Know how it is diagnosed:
Diagnosis of ectropion is made by visual examination. The veterinarian will check for other eye abnormalities or injuries. A test involving fluorescein dye may be done to determine if there has been damage done to the cornea. In older dogs, the veterinarian may do a complete blood and urine profile to rule out underlying health problems.

Step 4Know how it is treated:
Many dogs do not require treatment for ectropion. Dogs who suffer eye irritation due to ectropion normally respond well to eye lubrication drops and ointments. Antibiotics will be used to treat eye infections.

In cases where ectropion is due to underlying health problems, treatment will address the overall condition of the dog. Ectropion will generally correct itself once the animal has returned to normal health.

Intermittent ectropion associated with fatigue does not need to be treated.

Step 5Know when surgery is required:
The veterinarian may suggest surgery in severe cases where damage is being done to the cornea or conjunctiva.

The most common procedure is to make a small incision, remove a portion of the eyelid, and then suture the two sides of the incision together. This has the effect of shortening the eyelid and pulling it into proper position.

Step 6Know how to treat it at home:
Home treatment consists of providing the dog with good eye and facial hygiene. Watch the dog for signs of irritation and consult your veterinarian if the dog appears uncomfortable or if there are signs of infection. Administer all medication as directed by your veterinarian and keep all follow-up appointments.

If the dog has been treated by means of surgery, watch for any signs of irritation or infection. Prevent the animal from scratching at its eyes by using an Elizabethan (cone) dog collar. Your veterinarian will typically want to recheck the dog 10 to 14 days after surgery to make sure healing is progressing well and to remove the sutures.


It's this right here.... take him to the Vet.

Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:15:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 9:17:20 PM EST by Skibane]
Originally Posted By armoredsaint:



Here's his normal self a few weeks ago.


Ignoring the fact that your dog appears to have aged 19 years in just "a few weeks", it looks like he has an advanced case of scoop-eye...
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:29:50 PM EST
My dog Niki (who is 15 years old) had the same thing happen to her left eye.

I thought she had had a stroke. Took her to my Vet.

Said she had a virus or something. I think he said Honers.

Game me some salve to put into her eye twice a day.

It cleared up in a couple of weeks.

Hope your pup is okay.

ED
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:48:56 AM EST
There is no way to diagnose and responsibly recommend a treatment by a photo online.

This coming from someone named "Botch?"

I see no harm in giving the dog a drop of Visine and irrigating his eye with saline over the weekend. If his eye is not better on Monday, go and see the veterinarian.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:54:11 AM EST
It looks like your dog has Horner's Syndrome- but go ahead and get him checked out... I can't test his reflexes with a keyboard.... ;)

Horner's Syndrome is characterized by a small pupil (miosis) and a droopy upper lid (ptosis). Also a lack of sweating on the affected side (anhydrosis). The pupillary light reflex is normal as is the corneal reflex.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:01:01 AM EST
I'm sure no vet, just a dog lover...prayers incoming!
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:01:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 3:01:40 AM EST by pale_pony]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:01:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 3:01:53 AM EST by pale_pony]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:06:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 3:09:16 AM EST by ar15lizard]
I have a great deal of respect for Vets. Their breadth of knowledge surpasses that of many primary care physicians. But with few exceptions, no one, other than an ophthalmologist (MD or DVM), knows squat about eyes.

And it is possible to make many diagnoses and recommend treatments based on images, including photos. Just ask a radiologist, a dermatologist, or a retina specialist who interprets fundus photos, fluorescein angiograms, OCTs, and A-scan ultrasounds.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:47:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 3:49:11 AM EST by Hobbit]
Originally Posted By ar15lizard:
It looks like your dog has Horner's Syndrome- but go ahead and get him checked out... I can't test his reflexes with a keyboard.... ;)

Horner's Syndrome is characterized by a small pupil (miosis) and a droopy upper lid (ptosis). Also a lack of sweating on the affected side (anhydrosis). The pupillary light reflex is normal as is the corneal reflex.


It's different in dogs.
Elevated third eyelid (the thing covering the medial part of the eye- humans don't have it), miotic pupil just like people, dog's faces don't sweat so you can't check that, lower eyelid loses tone and droops- some of that is due to "sinking" of the eyeball deeper into the socket. I've seen a few where the upper eyelid was profoundly flaccid, and others that were more mildly affected.

PLR's are checked, as well as innervation to the ipsilateral side of the face.

Again, OP- please take your dog to the vet and have him checked out to see if it's Horner's or something else. It'll be worth it.

-Hobbit

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:52:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By ar15lizard:
I have a great deal of respect for Vets. Their breadth of knowledge surpasses that of many primary care physicians. But with few exceptions, no one, other than an ophthalmologist (MD or DVM), knows squat about eyes.
.


... which is why, when I had a terribly painful recurrent corneal ulcer, I went to an opthalmologist instead of getting out my stain. Better to leave it with someone who does it every day.

-Hobbit



Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:03:07 AM EST
If I saw it in a person, I would say a stroke.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:24:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 4:25:32 AM EST by MFRecon2]
your dog reminds me of this.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:28:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hobbit:
I'm a vet.
It looks like your dog has Horner's Syndrome- but go ahead and get him checked out... I can't test his reflexes with a keyboard.... ;)

-Hobbit


This.
I have a Lab that had it and I am pretty sure thats what it is as well.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:51:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 5:07:18 AM EST by armoredsaint]
thanks for everyone's advice, i will take him to the dog doctor tomorrow and it always helps that he has health insurance since he was a pup

when i gently touch around the area, he doesn't pull away or anything - again he acts all normal and still very active for an almost 13 year old boy



here's a closer shot from this morning:


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:59:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 5:00:22 AM EST by armoredsaint]

Originally Posted By MFRecon2:
your dog reminds me of this.


http://jeremyberg.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/falcor.jpg






Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:07:27 AM EST
Elevated third eyelid (the thing covering the medial part of the eye- humans don't have it)

Is that the nicotating membrane? I learned about that in high school biology. Never had comparative anatomy in college, and never discussed any animals other than humans in medical school.

lower eyelid loses tone and droops- some of that is due to "sinking" of the eyeball deeper into the socket.

In human Horner's Syndrome, enophthalmos does not accompany ptosis and miosis. It is only an illusion of enophthalmos caused by the ptosis.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:19:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15lizard:
Elevated third eyelid (the thing covering the medial part of the eye- humans don't have it)

Is that the nicotating membrane? I learned about that in high school biology. Never had comparative anatomy in college, and never discussed any animals other than humans in medical school.

lower eyelid loses tone and droops- some of that is due to "sinking" of the eyeball deeper into the socket.

In human Horner's Syndrome, enophthalmos does not accompany ptosis and miosis. It is only an illusion of enophthalmos caused by the ptosis.



can this condition be treated with medication?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:45:46 AM EST
Depends on cause- let me talk about it in a broad sense-
If it's Horner's, then the list of potential causes is a mile long. All of them I've seen but two were idiopathic ($10 word that means "We don't know) and we never found a cause. I've been working in clinics as a tech or a vet for 20 years now, so I've seen quite a few. Mother Nature does most of the fixing on idiopathics, but we sometimes have to medicate them to keep secondary issues at bay. Things like exposure keratitis because most can't blink, checking for ulcers, etc. If we think a steroid will help potential inflammation, we may use that as well. There are some dogs that get nothing at all.

Other causes are anything that can cause a nerve lesion- viral infection, tumor (I've seen this once), blood clot (rare in dogs that are otherwise healthy. I mean really rare.), trauma anywhere from the chest up, venoms (snakebite caused one I saw- could have been the venom or the puncture wound), ear infections, spinal cord lesions.... and those are just the ones I can think of. My books would probably have a list 3 times that long easily. It's a difficult condition to track down unless something jumps out at you during the exam.

That's why a good physical is important. Testing reflexes, looking in the ears, getting a good history from the owner, etc. are the logical first steps. I'm sure that your vet will look it over and be sure of a diagnosis before anything else is done. You're one of the few with pet insurance- time to get your money's worth!

-Hobbit
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:06:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 12:50:11 PM EST by armoredsaint]
UPDATE

Just came back from the vet with a $95 bill and it's inconclusive. my vet thinks it's horner's with all the classic signs, but is referring my dog to an animal ophthalmologist at ohio state for a proper diagnoses

on the interim, my dog is prescribed clotrimazole solution/azium for the yeast in his ears and the neomy/polymy b/dexa opth ointment for his right eye.

and more cha-ching$$$ but he's worth it and my dog insurance usually covers about 60% of all bills.
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