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Posted: 9/17/2004 1:57:45 PM EST
I don't know how many people here watch Charlie Rose. (it's an excellent program, in my opinion the best interviewer in journalism today) But last night (9-14) on his show he had Roland Betts, close personal friend of GWB from Yale, CEO of Chelsea Piers in NYC and board member of the Lower Mannhattan Development Corporation.

Charlie asked many insightful questions into the nature of their friendship. Betts is a registered Democrat but was backstage at the RNC. Betts goes to Camp David with the family regularly. It continued on from there.

Anyway, Mr. Betts echoed something that has been said by the president on numerous occasions including the RNC acceptance speech. "I believe the most solemn duty of the American president is to protect the American people. "

I believe this is direct contradiction to the oath he gave at his swearing in. "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." This is his most solemn duty.

I think the path this president has walked down is tremendously dangerous. I hate to enact what has become the Godwin's law of freedom loving people and quote Franklin about freedom and safety but I think it's very true in this example.

There is a moral line that this president has passed of what it means to be americans. We were a nation that lived by a motto of "Don't tread on Me” Now we’re the first to attack. We were a nation that understood Lady Justice was naked and blindfolded because our legal system was open for all to see, and blindfolded because it didn’t matter who was in front of her, the facts would speak for themselves. Now we have an Attorney General who covers her like he’s ashamed and blindfolds those accused.

I will quote Mill and say “War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things” Not living up to our ideals is worse than dying. To anyone who would say I’m wrong on this point I would ask: “Why do you own guns, If not to protect an idea?”

Some people will immediately say “but look at John Kerry, he’s horrible when it comes to: 2nd amendment rights, flip floping, whatever.” And they would be absolutely right. This is why as a registered Republican, I’m voting for a third party.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:00:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:01:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


Geez, you guys never stop, do you?? Your kung fu is weak. Your pager is going off--oh, it's DUh calling.



Take your lithium, man. It's right next to your Kool Aid.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:01:54 PM EST
What a rambling, raving, senseless crock of shit.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:01:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:02:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:02:49 PM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:03:15 PM EST
A month ago, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.

Now, after considering the implications of the voting alternatives, I am voting for George W. Bush on November 2.

It must be done. Now is not the time to jeopardize our future with the possible destruction that could be created by the Kerry administration. We just won some rights back. Kerry being elected would surely reverse that incremental gain.

I have stated in the past, that if the Dem alternative wasn't so damn awful with Kerry, I would have been in favor of possibly throwing a protest vote to dump GWB and return with a much stronger candidate in 2008. But we cannot risk the split vote. No way no how.

I am a sitting precinct committeeman of my local GOP.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:03:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:05:03 PM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:04:49 PM EST
I'm a registered republican, and I am voting republican.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:06:12 PM EST



Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:07:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


Geez, you guys never stop, do you?? Your kung fu is weak. Your pager is going off--oh, it's DUh calling.



Take your lithium, man. It's right next to your Kool Aid.



You apparently haven't noticed the unending series of low-count posters who have posted threads which all just happen to end with the same sentence--see my sig line. It is sooooo transparent as a political trick.

Edit: And watch to see if he comes back to defend/debate his post.



Oh I know.. but that's the standard dem response, right? Better living through chemistry?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:09:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:10:36 PM EST
Golly!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:10:40 PM EST
why did I waste my time reading that garbage?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:11:56 PM EST


Hey,
I like how none of you have actually responded to the argument. Way to go attack the poster not the post. By the way with the exclusion of Rik. I've been posting here longer than any of you who have posted.
Nice response Rik, two years ago I looked forward to reading what you wrote now all you do is yell down people, great evolution.
BK1, I'm here all day everyday what do you want me to defend.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:12:04 PM EST
I am not a Republican, nor have I ever voted for one. I am not a Democrat, nor have I ever voted for one.

I support the NRA and Gun Owners of America, and I'm voting for Bush this year. Too many Supreme Court justices are going to retire soon, and the thought of having that rich bitch liberal Kerry in office makes me sick to my stomach.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:14:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Hey,
I like how none of you have actually responded to the argument. Way to go attack the poster not the post. By the way with the exclusion of Rik. I've been posting here longer than any of you who have posted.
Nice response Rik, two years ago I looked forward to reading what you wrote now all you do is yell down people, great evolution.
BK1, I'm here all day everyday what do you want me to defend.

Chris



You expect a serious response to THAT "argument?" It ISN'T an argument, it's a series of assertions not based on fact. You cherry-pick a statement the president makes and ASSume it means something it doesn't and that's your idea of an ARGUMENT?
Get real.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:14:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Hey,
I like how none of you have actually responded to the argument. Way to go attack the poster not the post. By the way with the exclusion of Rik. I've been posting here longer than any of you who have posted.
Nice response Rik, two years ago I looked forward to reading what you wrote now all you do is yell down people, great evolution.
BK1, I'm here all day everyday what do you want me to defend.

Chris



I didn't attack you either.... and I DID respond to the argument.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:19:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:20:21 PM EST by cck]
you're right ben, I appoligise.

Rik,
When AMERICAN citizens are held without access to lawyers, without charges, what do you call that? When a president starts a war for the wrong reason (and there were plenty of right reasons) what do you call that? I call that a lack of respect for both the spirit and the letter of the law.

I didn't cherry pick, He uses it in EVERY stump speech.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:20:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:23:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
Some people will immediately say “but look at John Kerry, he’s horrible when it comes to: 2nd amendment rights, flip floping, whatever.” And they would be absolutely right. This is why as a registered Republican, I’m voting for a third party.

Welcome to realpolitik, sad tool.
Shitbirds the prattle about Franklin's surrendering a little freedom quote, in the middle of a war for our nation's survival, while simultaneously denying that WW4 is even happening are only worth wiping off my shoe.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:28:46 PM EST by Palo_Duro]
W '04


Don't be a vote waster...
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Hey,
I like how none of you have actually responded to the argument. Way to go attack the poster not the post. By the way with the exclusion of Rik. I've been posting here longer than any of you who have posted.
Nice response Rik, two years ago I looked forward to reading what you wrote now all you do is yell down people, great evolution.
BK1, I'm here all day everyday what do you want me to defend.

Chris

Twat. Nobody has bothered "responding to your argument" because your line of bullshit has be refuted scores of times before. It is no longer worth wasting time on, no longer worth politesse, no longer worth anything but mocking scorn.
You AREN'T 'speaking truth to power' you childish idiot, you are selling bullshit to people who've been fed quite enough, thanks.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:32:34 PM EST by TeuffelHunden1775]
I'll respond to your "arguement". Where did you come up with we "we're the first to attack"? I guess you missed those two large towers in NY that are no longer there, the Pentagon and the field of death in Penn.?

I guess you would rather have our enemies flooding our streets and combat them in rural America? (BTW, notice America is capitalized)

Wait, we can't do that because the liberals have done their very best to "Tread on Our Rights"! Good citizens in NY can't "Keep and Bear Arms" in defense of themselves or this great nation because the liberals have taken away their rights and allowed crime to run rampid!

Any questions?!?!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:30:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By cck:

Hey,
I like how none of you have actually responded to the argument. Way to go attack the poster not the post. By the way with the exclusion of Rik. I've been posting here longer than any of you who have posted.
Nice response Rik, two years ago I looked forward to reading what you wrote now all you do is yell down people, great evolution.
BK1, I'm here all day everyday what do you want me to defend.

Chris

Twat. Nobody has bothered "responding to your argument" because your line of bullshit has be refuted scores of times before. It is no longer worth wasting time on, no longer worth politesse, no longer worth anything but mocking scorn.
You AREN'T 'speaking truth to power' you childish idiot, you are selling bullshit to people who've been fed quite enough, thanks.



Damn - you're just full of love today aren't you. You toss insults around like candy at a parade.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:32:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
I don't know how many people here watch Charlie Rose. (it's an excellent program, in my opinion the best interviewer in journalism today)......



Personally I did not get any further than this.

Charlie Rose = Liberal sheepal hearder.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:33:38 PM EST
"There is a moral line that this president has passed of what it means to be americans. We were a nation that lived by a motto of "Don't tread on Me” Now we’re the first to attack."

Did 9/11 not even happen in your world? We were "tread upon", and now the world is seeing why we say "Don't tread on me". It's because we will hunt down the threat and lay waste to it.

I'm voting for Bush simply because out of the TWO REAL CHOICES, he supports my views the closest. I'm sure I can find others who share my views more closely, as I've spoken against Bush's actions a few times, but there are ONLY TWO REAL CHOICES FOR PRESIDENT.

Either Kerry or Bush will win, therefore we have to decide who more closely represents us as individuals.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:37:01 PM EST
I tuned his ass out when he said that we attacked first...get your ignorant head out of the sand.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:40:01 PM EST
You're right BK1, I did make an assertion. I do think it's dangerous, I do disagree. AMERICANS have rights, this president ignores/ignored them. To preserve their "safety"

Jose Padilla, American, no access to lawyers, no charges; until the Supreme Court stands up.

John Gilmorefreetotravel.org can't fly on a plane due to a SECRET LAW.

Are these the virtues and ideals you want in a President?

Afganastan was retaliation, IRAQ was nothing of the sort. There was a tremendous reason to fight Saddam Hussien it's because we were still at war; he signed a cease fire agreement in '91 and has broke it, that means we are at war. No wrong intellegence necessary, no changing reason, (has WMD, bad man, liberation).
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:42:40 PM EST
I want Bush for president. It sure is funny when all the anti-Bush people attack Bush instead of promoting their candidate. Maybe because that's their only hope?

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:45:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:48:34 PM EST
um.. so the alternative, John Kerry, a hardcore Democrat at the furthest extreme of the left will somehow push for smaller government and keep the government out of people's lives and protect the constitution and our freedoms guaranteed by it?

I hate to break this to you, but the government has disregarded the constitution when it is inconvenient for them for the past 150 years or so. We quit being a constitutional Republic over 7 generations ago. get with the times.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:48:54 PM EST
Palo Duro,
I'm attacking this president (for whom I voted) because he is wrong. America is not it's people, America is an Idea.
People don't come here to be like you and me. They come here because of the opportunity to be free. To not have to show an ID, to not submit to searches and seizures at police whims, to know when they are arrested they will know the reason why, and not have to wait until something is fabricated.

That's more important than 10,000 dead, or 1 million. These are the things worth fighting for, not our lives, our IDEALS.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:54:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
you're right ben, I appoligise.

Rik,
When AMERICAN citizens are held without access to lawyers, without charges, what do you call that?



War. It's happened before, it will happen again.



When a president starts a war for the wrong reason (and there were plenty of right reasons) what do you call that?



Your mistake. He didn't start a war for the wrong reason.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:54:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:59:11 PM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:55:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
Palo Duro,
I'm attacking this president (for whom I voted) because he is wrong.



No, the President isn't wrong because you're cherry picking a comment of his and trying to make it out to mean something it doesn't. You're wrong because you're pulling the whole "argument" out of your ass.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:55:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

So the wars ARE justified, you're just nitpicking over his choice of words in explaining the reasons for them? That is quite a stretch. If you really think this justifies voting for some unnamed third party--have at it. BTW, what third party do you see as being worthy of your vote?



I haven't decided. I just know that voting for Kerry is out of the question, and voting for Bush is giving my approval to what he has done.

Yes the war in Iraq is justified. Just like not funding stem cell research is right. not because as a christian I have a problem with it but because that's not the business of government.
Your actions must not only be right, the reasons you do things must be right too.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:56:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

So the wars ARE justified, you're just nitpicking over his choice of words in explaining the reasons for them? That is quite a stretch. If you really think this justifies voting for some unnamed third party--have at it. BTW, what third party do you see as being worthy of your vote?



I haven't decided. I just know that voting for Kerry is out of the question, and voting for Bush is giving my approval to what he has done.

Yes the war in Iraq is justified. Just like not funding stem cell research is right. not because as a christian I have a problem with it but because that's not the business of government.
Your actions must not only be right, the reasons you do things must be right too.

Chris



And the only indication you have that his reasons are wrong (in your warped opinion) is a comment you took out of context and twisted to mean something it was never intended to mean.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:57:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
Palo Duro,
I'm attacking this president (for whom I voted) because he is wrong. America is not it's people, America is an Idea.
People don't come here to be like you and me. They come here because of the opportunity to be free. To not have to show an ID, to not submit to searches and seizures at police whims, to know when they are arrested they will know the reason why, and not have to wait until something is fabricated.

That's more important than 10,000 dead, or 1 million. These are the things worth fighting for, not our lives, our IDEALS.

Chris



OK - dump the patriot act and now you've got a perfect president.

Who are you voting for?

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:58:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


Geez, you guys never stop, do you?? Your kung fu is weak. Your pager is going off--oh, it's DUh calling.




AGree....


Throw away your vote if you want. You obviously are an idiot and probably shouldn't be allowed to vote anyways.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:58:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


Geez, you guys never stop, do you?? Your kung fu is weak. Your pager is going off--oh, it's DUh calling.



Take your lithium, man. It's right next to your Kool Aid.



mmmm lithium and kool aid
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:59:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

And the only indication you have that his reasons are wrong (in your warped opinion) is a comment you took out of context and twisted to mean something it was never intended to mean.



No Rik,
I've already written it, but I'll do it again.
American's rights are being trampled in the name of SAFETY. Which is exactly what he said. Safety is more important that rights.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:00:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
I don't know how many people here watch Charlie Rose. (it's an excellent program, in my opinion the best interviewer in journalism today)




And Rose is one of the biggest libs out there!

What 3rd party do you plan on voting for?

The Green party?


Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:01:13 PM EST
Kind of like what Hillary Klinton said?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:01:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 3:02:14 PM EST by cck]

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
[

OK - dump the patriot act and now you've got a perfect president.

Who are you voting for?




That's not too far off. But the kind of man that could sign the USA PATRIOT Act is not my kind of guy.
but I would vote for him then.
Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:02:40 PM EST
um... how many law-abiding American Citizens has the patriot act actually affected?

The sad truth is, the patriot act just codifys alot of the powers the federal government has been weilding for a long LONG time.

btw, the President doesn't legislate so quitcherbitchin. If you hate the patriot act so much, why would you vote for John Kerry who DID help pass it into legislation by voting for it in the senate?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:05:07 PM EST
I'll tell you what's wrong with GWB....

1) He hasn't won the election yet.

2) He hasn't told Kerry to go hump a large electric generator yet.


Other than that, he's fine by me.....
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:08:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I'll tell you what's wrong with GWB....

1) He hasn't won the election yet.

2) He hasn't told Kerry to go hump a large electric generator yet.


Other than that, he's fine by me.....




3) He hasn't invaded Syria, Iran, or Suadi yet.


Untill he does that I will not be 100% satisfied.

But I am still voting for him.

Why?


Because as a Papal loving Catholic it is the right thing to do.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:12:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
[

OK - dump the patriot act and now you've got a perfect president.

Who are you voting for?




That's not too far off. But the kind of man that could sign the USA PATRIOT Act is not my kind of guy.
but I would vote for him then.
Chris



Have you ever read the PAtriot Act? The funny thing is the Patriot Act doesn't really do a whole lot. Most, if not all, of the stuff in the Patriot Act is stuff that the govt. was always doing. It just codifies it into one package.
Why are you blaming Bush for the Patriot Act? Why aren't you writing about all the senators and representatives that drafted and voted for the bill? Go back to Govt. class in school, the President doesn't make laws, he simply signs them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:17:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By cck:
you're right ben, I appoligise.

Rik,
When AMERICAN citizens are held without access to lawyers, without charges, what do you call that? When a president starts a war for the wrong reason (and there were plenty of right reasons) what do you call that? I call that a lack of respect for both the spirit and the letter of the law.

I didn't cherry pick, He uses it in EVERY stump speech.

Chris



Americans held without access to Lawyers…without charges…you failed to note we were attacked on our soil and are at WAR!! Would you suggest these people held were just randomly selected…or might there be some PC!?

The President did not “start a war for the wrong reason”…remember 9/11 we were attacked…the war is in response. You can call whatever you want “a lack of respect for both the spirit and letter of the law”….that’s your opinion based upon your flawed logic. BTW….what laws do you refer to?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:19:26 PM EST
cck,

I don't agree with everything the President Bush has done, but he has done MORE to protect my rights than Kerry could ever do.

AS far as the war in Iraq, how about Resolution 4114, demanding that Iraq disarm it's weapon systems, and account for ALL WMD's, or face the use of force to make Iraq comply?

Did you miss all that?

Did you miss the report that left alot of WMD's unaccounted for?

Did you miss all the reports that Clinton used as justification to waste missles attacking empty tents in the desert? THe SAME ONES THAT BUSH USED? No that it's Bush using those reports, they carry less weight?

Tell me, what other party has a better than 0% chance of beating both Kerry and Bush? PLEASE LET US KNOW!!!

If you can't then have a warm cup of STFU.

Have a wonderful day.....
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