Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 3/10/2010 4:00:27 PM EDT
Look in any gun magazine, and look at when they showcase any given variant of the M16 or the M4. Moreso often it's the M16, in that it's a full stock, 20in bbl upper, and the only difference is the accessories it's outfitted with. All chambered for the same cartridge, all shoot the same bullet. The only difference is what they attach to the damn thing, and they got a million different names for it, as if the internal mechanics are drastically different.

And then, here, all it is is just an AR-15 with whatever jumble of tacticool gear/optics/rail accessories. Much more simple.

These are all modern day configurations chambered in .223/5.56x45mm, not .308, 6.8, etc.

What gives?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:04:55 PM EDT


They're all different model designations.
There is a reason they have different model designations.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:07:18 PM EDT
same reasons all 9mm pistols aren't the same
different models

XD != G19
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:08:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 4:09:06 PM EDT by omega62]
Colt owns the legal right to use the name "AR-15."  No one else can use it.  Hence a plethora of different names used by different makers.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:08:57 PM EDT
What do you expect them to call the guns.
Those of us in ban states whose bans mimic the old Federal ban have laws that name certain weapons as banned for private ownership.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:10:39 PM EDT



Originally Posted By omega62:


Colt owns the legal right to use the name "AR-15."  No one else can use it.
Why doesn't Armalite get to use AR-15?





 
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:11:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 4:14:34 PM EDT by omega62]
Originally Posted By mushroomhead130:

Originally Posted By omega62:
Colt owns the legal right to use the name "AR-15."  No one else can use it.
Why doesn't Armalite get to use AR-15?

 


The Armalite of today is not the same Armalite of the 1950s that was owned by Fairchild.

The original Armalite sold the patent rights to Colt around 1959 or so.

(The original Armalite was a subsidiary of Fairchild Aircraft Company, and Fairchild folded Armalite after it failed to secure a Pentagon contract for Stoner's design).

Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:11:47 PM EDT
The proper name is..........."Poodle Shooter"..................
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:15:30 PM EDT
You mean like "Jammin' Jenny"?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:41:12 PM EDT
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:52:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mushroomhead130:

Originally Posted By omega62:
Colt owns the legal right to use the name "AR-15."  No one else can use it.
Why doesn't Armalite get to use AR-15?

 


Read the text you quoted.

Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:53:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plissken:
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?


Seriously?
The ARMY never adopted a Carbine, when they did the NEXT designation in the book of designations was the M-4
The M1 carbine of WWII, the M2 and M3 of Korea, the M-16 in carbine form was never adopted... the Marine Corp never adopted it either.
The USAF is the only service to officially adopt a carbine prior to the ARMY M4... It was known as a GAU-5 A/B/AA/AB/ GUU-5P
The Army adopted the M4 (remember the next number???) and so it goes...

The DMR is not just a random rifle...
the SAMR is what the Marines call their DMR M-16 variant...


The AR-10 thing well ARMALITE has that moniker locked up and the US Military never adopted that one so no one else can use it.
the M110 SASS is what it is.. an SR-25... the Navy and USMC have the Mk12 Mod 0 or whatever the hell it is...

ALL are MILITARY designations....
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:55:25 PM EDT
Soldiers call the M16s "muskets" nowadays and loathe getting issued them, especially the A2s.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:12:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mgwantob:
Soldiers call the M16s "muskets" nowadays and loathe getting issued them, especially the A2s.


I've heard that.

I'll take theirs if they don't want them.

I loved my issued M-16A2; it was match-grade accurate and ran like a sewing machine. I had to trade it in on a brand new M4 carbine in 2004, and I never liked the carbine as much, no matter how hard I tried. They ARE a lot easier to dismount with, and they are lighter and handier at close quarters, but I still like the M-16A2/A4.

Our HHC guys and transpo section got issued M-16A4's, and to my surprise, they didn't like them.

One learns to appreciate the M-16A2 a lot more if the the target is out past 300m.

Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:15:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 5:16:09 PM EDT by Flogger23m]
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?


Seriously?
The ARMY never adopted a Carbine, when they did the NEXT designation in the book of designations was the M-4
The M1 carbine of WWII, the M2 and M3 of Korea, the M-16 in carbine form was never adopted... the Marine Corp never adopted it either.
The USAF is the only service to officially adopt a carbine prior to the ARMY M4... It was known as a GAU-5 A/B/AA/AB/ GUU-5P
The Army adopted the M4 (remember the next number???) and so it goes...

The DMR is not just a random rifle...
the SAMR is what the Marines call their DMR M-16 variant...


The AR-10 thing well ARMALITE has that moniker locked up and the US Military never adopted that one so no one else can use it.
the M110 SASS is what it is.. an SR-25... the Navy and USMC have the Mk12 Mod 0 or whatever the hell it is...

ALL are MILITARY designations....


Pretty sure the Army and Navy used earlier versions of M16 carbines before the M4.

I remember seeing a lot of pics with SEALs carrying M16A1 style carbines in Vietnam, and didn't Delta use M16A2 carbines?

obviously they were not bought it huge numbers and not standard issue though.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:23:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By doubleclaw:
Originally Posted By mgwantob:
Soldiers call the M16s "muskets" nowadays and loathe getting issued them, especially the A2s.


I've heard that.

I'll take theirs if they don't want them.

I loved my issued M-16A2; it was match-grade accurate and ran like a sewing machine. I had to trade it in on a brand new M4 carbine in 2004, and I never liked the carbine as much, no matter how hard I tried. They ARE a lot easier to dismount with, and they are lighter and handier at close quarters, but I still like the M-16A2/A4.

Our HHC guys and transpo section got issued M-16A4's, and to my surprise, they didn't like them.

One learns to appreciate the M-16A2 a lot more if the the target is out past 300m.



I wouldn't want the M4 myself either. I have yet to see a photo of one n combat using iron sights-always the optics that everyone raves about. I just can't bring myself to trust a battery powered optic. Sure the battery life is measured in years, but bad batteries do leave the factory. Irons don't use batteries, are always "switched on" and in the case of the A2 type sights have nice little index marks to look at in case someone thought they'd be a smartass and change your zero.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:28:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 5:28:21 PM EDT by Plissken]
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?


Seriously?
The ARMY never adopted a Carbine, when they did the NEXT designation in the book of designations was the M-4
The M1 carbine of WWII, the M2 and M3 of Korea, the M-16 in carbine form was never adopted... the Marine Corp never adopted it either.
The USAF is the only service to officially adopt a carbine prior to the ARMY M4... It was known as a GAU-5 A/B/AA/AB/ GUU-5P
The Army adopted the M4 (remember the next number???) and so it goes...

The DMR is not just a random rifle...
the SAMR is what the Marines call their DMR M-16 variant...


The AR-10 thing well ARMALITE has that moniker locked up and the US Military never adopted that one so no one else can use it.
the M110 SASS is what it is.. an SR-25... the Navy and USMC have the Mk12 Mod 0 or whatever the hell it is...

ALL are MILITARY designations....


Pretty sure the Army and Navy used earlier versions of M16 carbines before the M4.

I remember seeing a lot of pics with SEALs carrying M16A1 style carbines in Vietnam, and didn't Delta use M16A2 carbines?

obviously they were not bought it huge numbers and not standard issue though.


Why wouldn't they use the CAR-15 that was widely used at the time?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:36:55 PM EDT
We should call most modern bolt actions Mausers too I suppose then, since the origin of alot of modern rifles is an improved Mauser.  

No thanks,  it is just way too confusing.

Before someone says,"Uh...they aren't all the same calibers though, like uh the original Mausers"


Good for you.  Either are all the AR family of weapons,  5.56, 5.45, 7.62x39, .204, .243, .260, .308, .338 ........and so on a so forth.

That is some of them.

I suppose they should all be the same price too.

BTW, don't take me too seriously, I only have 1 ar rifle.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:37:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plissken:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?


Seriously?
The ARMY never adopted a Carbine, when they did the NEXT designation in the book of designations was the M-4
The M1 carbine of WWII, the M2 and M3 of Korea, the M-16 in carbine form was never adopted... the Marine Corp never adopted it either.
The USAF is the only service to officially adopt a carbine prior to the ARMY M4... It was known as a GAU-5 A/B/AA/AB/ GUU-5P
The Army adopted the M4 (remember the next number???) and so it goes...

The DMR is not just a random rifle...
the SAMR is what the Marines call their DMR M-16 variant...


The AR-10 thing well ARMALITE has that moniker locked up and the US Military never adopted that one so no one else can use it.
the M110 SASS is what it is.. an SR-25... the Navy and USMC have the Mk12 Mod 0 or whatever the hell it is...

ALL are MILITARY designations....


Pretty sure the Army and Navy used earlier versions of M16 carbines before the M4.

I remember seeing a lot of pics with SEALs carrying M16A1 style carbines in Vietnam, and didn't Delta use M16A2 carbines?

obviously they were not bought it huge numbers and not standard issue though.


Why wouldn't they use the CAR-15 that was widely used at the time?


OFFICIALLY ADOPTED...
No such animal as a CAR-15...
The only M-16 CARBINE used was the XM-177 experimental never OFFICIALLY adopted.
SEALS in Vietnam used primarily M-16s the only carbines I have EVER seen fielded in Vietnam were XM-177 and 177 E2
Delta uses a LOT of weapons that are not OFFICIALLY adopted army weapons now don't they?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:44:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
I mean like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marine_Corps_Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

Underneath it all, they're all the same rifle/platform [AR-15/M16] that all shoot the same thing.

The same goes for the AR-10 family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

Even the M14.. The USMC DMR is practically an M1A. Which is being replaced by the M39 EMR... which is the same shit as an Mk. 14 Mod. 0, save for the select fire on the latter, which is seldom used anyway.

So, really. Why all the different names? Why not just call a spade a spade?


Seriously?
The ARMY never adopted a Carbine, when they did the NEXT designation in the book of designations was the M-4
The M1 carbine of WWII, the M2 and M3 of Korea, the M-16 in carbine form was never adopted... the Marine Corp never adopted it either.
The USAF is the only service to officially adopt a carbine prior to the ARMY M4... It was known as a GAU-5 A/B/AA/AB/ GUU-5P
The Army adopted the M4 (remember the next number???) and so it goes...

The DMR is not just a random rifle...
the SAMR is what the Marines call their DMR M-16 variant...


The AR-10 thing well ARMALITE has that moniker locked up and the US Military never adopted that one so no one else can use it.
the M110 SASS is what it is.. an SR-25... the Navy and USMC have the Mk12 Mod 0 or whatever the hell it is...

ALL are MILITARY designations....


Pretty sure the Army and Navy used earlier versions of M16 carbines before the M4.

I remember seeing a lot of pics with SEALs carrying M16A1 style carbines in Vietnam, and didn't Delta use M16A2 carbines?

obviously they were not bought it huge numbers and not standard issue though.


Why wouldn't they use the CAR-15 that was widely used at the time?


OFFICIALLY ADOPTED...
No such animal as a CAR-15...
The only M-16 CARBINE used was the XM-177 experimental never OFFICIALLY adopted.
SEALS in Vietnam used primarily M-16s the only carbines I have EVER seen fielded in Vietnam were XM-177 and 177 E2
Delta uses a LOT of weapons that are not OFFICIALLY adopted army weapons now don't they?



True, but I thought we were talking about all variants used, whether they were officially adopted or not.

But yea, I agree with the designation thing.

An M4, M16, 10.5" M4 (MK 18?), SPR, SAM-R, ect. are all vary different.

Only makes sense. Easier to say "we have 4 M16s, and one SAM-R", then "we have 5 M16s, 4 being normal, 1 being that special accurate M16".
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:06:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 6:08:25 PM EDT by AFSOC]
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:


Just explaining why the M4... There was NO M-16 based carbine prior that was OFFICIAL... So after M3 comes M4...
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:07:49 PM EDT
Poodle Shooter
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:08:37 PM EDT
Why does this thread remind me so much of the guy yesterday who started one specifically to bash PMAGS???

Both OP's seem to just WANT something silly to complain about!  lol
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:32:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 6:35:59 PM EDT by Plissken]
Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
Why does this thread remind me so much of the guy yesterday who started one specifically to bash PMAGS???

Both OP's seem to just WANT something silly to complain about!  lol


I'm not really complaining, I'm just perplexed over how many different names they can give to the same exact weapon, three of which made from the same platform that all perform the same function.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 6:35:45 PM EDT by Calgunner]
Is there a name for "Baby Armalite" in tagolog ?
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:48:19 PM EDT
50% model designations

50% marketing



Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:51:25 PM EDT
I'm starting to think that someone is going to hit someone else with their purse.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 7:03:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
The only M-16 CARBINE used was the XM-177 experimental never OFFICIALLY adopted.
SEALS in Vietnam used primarily M-16s the only carbines I have EVER seen fielded in Vietnam were XM-177 and 177 E2
Delta uses a LOT of weapons that are not OFFICIALLY adopted army weapons now don't they?


There were definitely others used during our time in SE Asia back then (besides the XM177s). And they officially entered service with US forces - they had actual designations and all - but were not adopted as issue service weapons. They retained only experimental or other special status.
Top Top