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Posted: 10/1/2005 9:12:47 PM EDT
I read something about them recently but the name eludes me. What are they called?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:58:06 PM EDT
Belgian Malinois?
I have no clue thats just the first thing that came to mind
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 9:59:50 PM EDT by A_Free_Man]
Belgian Shepherd? I don't know that they are any smarter.

Google it. Lots of pages.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:21:24 PM EDT
border collie?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:22:38 PM EDT
Much smarter than a German Shepard? Never heard of such a thing.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:29:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Followthehollow:
Belgian Malinois?
I have no clue thats just the first thing that came to mind



That is very close, but the BM is smaller and lighter than the GSD, and this breed is the same size as the GSD. I've been googling for two hours and can't find it, this is grinding me. There's gotta be somebody on arfcom that knows more about dogs than I do. Also, I remember that this dog is expensive and only available from private breeders. I think it had a shorter coat but I'm not sure. The most important thing about this breed was that its temperament was very similar to a GSD but it was much smarter. I don't know if it's an AKC breed though, it could possibly just be a trademark that a breeder had going.

I'll keep digging.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:40:29 PM EDT
Bouvier Des Flanders

users.skynet.be/bouvier/index1.htm

Probably not what you're looking for,,but my 6 month old,and 1yr "contained" our contractor and his helper/laborer.Good thing I showed up,they'd been boxed in for 2hrs
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:01:28 PM EDT
I do not believe German Shepherd is abbreviated GSD.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:04:32 PM EDT
Rhodesian Ridgeback?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:12:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I do not believe German Shepherd is abbreviated GSD.



That's OK. The world will continue to rotate without your approval, and German Shepherd Dogs will continue to be known as GSD's. Carry on, though.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 11:14:49 PM EDT by Peak_Oil]

Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
Rhodesian Ridgeback?



Excellent dogs, but the breed I'm looking for is very similar to a GSD. If I can't find what I'm looking for, a RR is next on the list.

Edited for spelling... doh
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:14:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:24:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 11:26:23 PM EDT by 9Millie]
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:52:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:00:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JS98010:
www.dogbreedinfo.com



I just did a search on my most important qualities and that site spat back Bergamasco Sheepdog as my best match. That might be even better for me. I cut and pasted the entire description here. I've never heard of this kind of dog before but I'm definitely interested in knowing more.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strong, sound and brave, the Bergamasco is above all very intelligent and balanced. The intelligence of the dog has been refined for natural selection. Being alone with hundreds of sheep to look after and having to sort out different and unexpected problems, caused the Bergamasco's intelligence to develop steadily. A careful selection was applied to eliminate excessive aggressiveness. Bergamasco is a peaceful dog. Puppies play together, without impulse towards rivalry. They grow up in harmony with each other and develop strong personal links which are never broken. Bergamasco show great respect for each other, they avoid irritating or provoking one another. They have strong, balanced characters, their highly developed dignity makes it possible for them to live in peace with each other in a community devoid of dominance and submission. The Bergamasco is a friend, never a follower. He does not submit, but obeys to demonstrate affection and will not do this under menace. He always needs to understand "why" he has to do something. A Bergamasco needs to be treated as the intelligent being which it is; only if you can make it understand rationally what you want of him, will comply with pleasure, but in its own way. He will never see you as a master but as a friend. Attentive and reserved, it participates constantly in everything which goes on around it and, even when it appears to be asleep, it eyes will be following you, because it always wants to know where you are and what you are up to. Although not instinctively aggressive, the Bergamasco is an excellent watch dog because it doesn't likes strangers invading its world. Its relationship with children is something special. Their presence awakens its most profound and primitive instincts, first as a wolf and then as a sheepdog. Patient, tolerant, attentive and protective, it seeks their company encouraging their games establishing true friendship with them. Anyone who owns a Bergamasco is also lucky enough to have an excellent Nanny on hand, part from feeling protected, loved and safe at all times. The Bergamasco is both a watch dog and guard and will alert when people come to the home, however, the Bergamasco is not aggressive as long as there is no serious threat to the family. The Bergamasco is great with all children and have been used as Therapy dogs for handicapped children. Bergamascos are usually okay with other dogs as long as they don't challenge them or appear as a threat. It is not recommended to place a Bergamasco with a very protective breed such as a Fila Brasileiro. They will usually do okay with cats, but it is best if they were brought up together while the dog is still a puppy. The Bergamasco sees each individual that comes to the house as a separate person. As to whether to Bergamasco is friendly with strangers; all depends on the feel of that person and what the dog senses. Italian born Bergamascos are more watchful then American born. The Bergamasco is not everybody's dog. It appearance, its character and its wonderful gifts of sensibility and intelligence, all that it represents of antiquity and modernism, have made it into a precious rarity which it is not easy to understand completely.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:29:32 AM EDT
Shiloah shepard?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:51:19 AM EDT
Lots smarter than a GSD? Can they read or something? Sheperds are among the smartest dogs I've ever encountered.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:46:50 AM EDT
Agree with others I don't know of any dogs more intelligent than a german shepherd, maybe you're thinking of the belgium malonois though?
I've read somewhere that they have the thinking process of a 7 year old child.

And 2 times that of most celebrities and liberals.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:24:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sumo2000:
Lots smarter than a GSD? Can they read or something? Sheperds are among the smartest dogs I've ever encountered.



My GSD can't read, but he does reload my ammo for me.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:15:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:18:11 AM EDT
Probably unrelated to your search, but I just thought I'd throw in a pic of a Norwegian Elkhound.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:23:01 AM EDT
Siberian Husky. Smart, friendy, great jogging buddies, but unforunately not exactly what you are looking for. I love my husky. I was considering hijacking this thread, cause I need to get her a buddy, but I will start another one.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:57:43 AM EDT

What's the breed of dog that's very close to GSD but much smarter?


Never heard of one...

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:02:25 AM EDT
My parents have a smaller dog, short hair, very smart, very protective too. I think it's an Austrailan breed. Maybe some type of Shepard? Some folks call them Blue Heelers too.


Balming
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:18:32 AM EDT
I was going to say Rhodesian Ridgeback, but I know they aren't really similar in looks to a GSD (is that even how you abbreviate german shepherd?) despite lots of similar qualities.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:24:53 AM EDT
I've had a Belgian Shepherd for 8 years and she is very intelligent. They are used as drug and bomb sniffers, police dogs and attack dogs along with herding.

She is stubborn though and you have to work with them a lot because they easily become bored. Wonderful personality though. Always has to be where I am.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:38:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Probably unrelated to your search, but I just thought I'd throw in a pic of a Norwegian Elkhound.

mikesejournal.com/images/tai/Tai.jpg



Damn your dog is pretty.

I've always wanted one of those.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:26:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JPC:
Bouvier Des Flanders

users.skynet.be/bouvier/index1.htm

Probably not what you're looking for,,but my 6 month old,and 1yr "contained" our contractor and his helper/laborer.Good thing I showed up,they'd been boxed in for 2hrs





Damn, sexy, Flanders
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:31:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:25:53 AM EDT
Check out Shiloh Shepherds. They match your description, except for size. They are from the GSD line but about twice the size of a typical GSD (minimum 120 pounds for males). I have one and I can say that they are smarter than the GSDs I have known. (And GSDs are definitely at or near the top in dog intelligence.) Mine is about 160 pounds. I think that is as big as he is going to get.

Mine did all the basic commands (sit, heel, come, lay down, etc.) with either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old -- without training. It rarely takes more than one or two sessions to teach him anything. He picks up on a lot of things without any training at all. If I do something the same way twice in a row, he will have picked up on the pattern the third time I do it, whether I was intending to train him or not. He responds to single finger commands even when I am not looking at him and haven't done anything special to get his attention. He will come from the other end of the yard (about fifty yards) if I just snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it -- no teaching involved.

A lot of their owners report that they are "intuitive". They will pick up on what you want and do it even before you give them the command. I have seen it with my dog lots of times.



You can read more about my dog at www.druglibrary.org/chopper

You can find more about the Shiloh Shepherd breed just by searching Google.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:28:15 AM EDT
It's RACIST! to assume that one dog is likely to be smarter than another just because of differences in breed.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:41:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Check out Shiloh Shepherds. They match your description, except for size. They are from the GSD line but about twice the size of a typical GSD (minimum 120 pounds for males). I have one and I can say that they are smarter than the GSDs I have known. (And GSDs are definitely at or near the top in dog intelligence.) Mine is about 160 pounds. I think that is as big as he is going to get.

Mine did all the basic commands (sit, heel, come, lay down, etc.) with either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old -- without training. It rarely takes more than one or two sessions to teach him anything. He picks up on a lot of things without any training at all. If I do something the same way twice in a row, he will have picked up on the pattern the third time I do it, whether I was intending to train him or not. He responds to single finger commands even when I am not looking at him and haven't done anything special to get his attention. He will come from the other end of the yard (about fifty yards) if I just snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it -- no teaching involved.

A lot of their owners report that they are "intuitive". They will pick up on what you want and do it even before you give them the command. I have seen it with my dog lots of times.

druglibrary.org/chopper/2194271942.jpg

You can read more about my dog at www.druglibrary.org/chopper

You can find more about the Shiloh Shepherd breed just by searching Google.



That's it! That's the one.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:54:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:55:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:37:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Check out Shiloh Shepherds. They match your description, except for size. They are from the GSD line but about twice the size of a typical GSD (minimum 120 pounds for males). I have one and I can say that they are smarter than the GSDs I have known. (And GSDs are definitely at or near the top in dog intelligence.) Mine is about 160 pounds. I think that is as big as he is going to get.

Mine did all the basic commands (sit, heel, come, lay down, etc.) with either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old -- without training. It rarely takes more than one or two sessions to teach him anything. He picks up on a lot of things without any training at all. If I do something the same way twice in a row, he will have picked up on the pattern the third time I do it, whether I was intending to train him or not. He responds to single finger commands even when I am not looking at him and haven't done anything special to get his attention. He will come from the other end of the yard (about fifty yards) if I just snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it -- no teaching involved.

A lot of their owners report that they are "intuitive". They will pick up on what you want and do it even before you give them the command. I have seen it with my dog lots of times.

druglibrary.org/chopper/2194271942.jpg

You can read more about my dog at www.druglibrary.org/chopper

You can find more about the Shiloh Shepherd breed just by searching Google.



That's it! That's the one.



There is another guy on the board who is planning to get one. If you want one, they typically run $1,000 to $3,000 or more. I paid $2,000 for mine -- well worth it. The breeders tend to be unusually devoted to their dogs and will probably want references from you and ask you to sign a contract that, among other things, requires you to send the dog back to them if you can't care for it for any reason. They mean it, too.

I believe the other guy is getting one from the next litter of my breeder. majestic-knights-shilohs.com/ I can vouch for her. My dog is three years old and she still pesters me for photos and news on how he is doing.

If you get one, you will hear a lot of people saying "Wow!" and "Magnificent!" as you walk him around. Mine attracts crowds. They are chick magnets like you wouldn't believe.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:26:03 PM EDT
That's what I said! I misspelled it but that's what I said.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:32:51 PM EDT
Before you buy a Shiloh Shepherd, you may want to check this page. I am thinking about buying one in the future but apparantly, you have to be really careful

Shiloh Shepherd Breeding

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:40:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 3:51:44 PM EDT by AirCommando]
My 140 lb. puppy looks a lot like yours, wolfman!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:42:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
Before you buy a Shiloh Shepherd, you may want to check this page. I am thinking about buying one in the future but apparantly, you have to be really careful

Shiloh Shepherd Breeding




Yes, you certainly do. The breed founder, Lisa Barber, gives some good advice there. There are some people breeding what are supposedly Shilohs that didn't turn out that great. In some of them you can see a clear difference. For example, they are smaller, their snouts are pointier and the tale curls up over the back like a Husky. They also may have problems with their hips. These are to be avoided.

However, there is a caution about the breed founder that I would add. She certainly did a good thing when she started the breed and set a standard way back in the early 1960s. One of the things she did right was to require hip certifications and all kinds of other health info before dogs could be bred as Shilohs. That set a pretty high standard and, as it turned out, there were a lot of other breeders interested in the same high standards.

However, the record for the breed founder isn't looking so rosy lately. Breeders don't tend to stay in her organization for more than a few years because of what they claim is general mismanagement of the registry. Therefore, they have created other registries for Shilohs.

Also, (can't find the link now, but it is on the web) Ma Shiloh (as she likes to call herself) has had several complaints by dissatisfied buyers in the last few years. This led to a few complaints to the Better Business Bureau. She didn't respond to any of those complaints. Also, there have been a few court judgments against her, including a new one by my breeder who just got a judgment against her for monies owed. A couple of those cases went so far as to have felony complaints filed against her. It is alleged that she promised first pick of the same litter to two different people -- and then never delivered a dog to either of them. Her stance is that once you give her a deposit for a dog, you pretty much have to take whatever she decides to give you, whenever she decides to give it, with no refunds. This info is on the web somewhere, with full court documentation, so this is not just rumor. I personally asked Ma Shiloh to explain the recent complaints, why she didn't respond to the BBB, and how some complaints went so far as to be filed as felonies. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, of course, but her response was not satisfactory IMO.

I can recommend my breeder with confidence because I have known her for three years now. She doesn't produce a lot of dogs but the ones she does produce are done in individual litters and raised in her home until their owners get them. She also takes an ongoing interest in the dogs and wants all the health information as they grow so she can make plans about future litters. My breeder does ask by contract that every buyer of her dogs agrees to have the dog's hips evaluated so she can keep track of their health. That can cost you a few hundred bucks. Results of the hip tests can be found on her web site. She also takes responsibility for her dogs and has taken back one or two that had behavioral issues and placed them in homes where they could be better managed.

My breeder recently split from ISSR because of various problems, one of which led to her winning a lawsuit against the breed founder. If my breeder does not have any available in the time frame someone wants them, I would take her judgment on recommending other breeders.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:44:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AirCommando:
My 140 lb. puppy looks a lot like yours, wolfman!
i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/Duke002.jpg



Is that a Shiloh or just a big GSD? Good-looking dog, whatever.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:45:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tac45:
That's what I said! I misspelled it but that's what I said.



Yeah, I saw that. You beat me to it, but he needed a picture, I think.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AirCommando:
My 140 lb. puppy looks a lot like yours, wolfman!
i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/Duke002.jpg



Is that a Shiloh or just a big GSD? Good-looking dog, whatever.



Thanks! Not a Shiloh, he's just big! Weighed him about a year ago, He probably weighs more now!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tac45:
Shiloah shepard?



BING BING we have a winner!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:30:42 PM EDT
Here is that info on the breed founder that I mentioned earlier shilohbuyerbeware.blogspot.com/

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:33:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I do not believe German Shepherd is abbreviated GSD.




Sorry, but it is...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:38:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I remember reading that the IDF went to Belgium Shepards over Germans for their smarts and the small size was advantagous.



Why? Does their size make it easier to infiltrate palestinian terrorist hideouts with explosives strapped around their body? Sorry...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:45:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By critterflht:

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I do not believe German Shepherd is abbreviated GSD.




Sorry, but it is...



Critter is correct. For some reason GS owners like to refer to their pets as German Shepherd Dogs -- as if the "Dog" part was really necessary. Maybe there are some GSCs (German Shepherd Cows) or something.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:53:06 PM EDT
A Turverin. same dog as malinois but withlong hair.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:53:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By critterflht:

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I do not believe German Shepherd is abbreviated GSD.




Sorry, but it is...



Critter is correct. For some reason GS owners like to refer to their pets as German Shepherd Dogs -- as if the "Dog" part was really necessary. Maybe there are some GSCs (German Shepherd Cows) or something.



It's not really that we like to call them that, but the fact is that it is the recognized proper name for the breed-
Lee
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Balming:
My parents have a smaller dog, short hair, very smart, very protective too. I think it's an Austrailan breed. Maybe some type of Shepard? Some folks call them Blue Heelers too.


Balming



ACD Australian Cattle dogs. They come in blue and red.
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