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Posted: 10/1/2005 9:12:47 PM EDT
I read something about them recently but the name eludes me. What are they called?
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Belgian Malinois?
I have no clue thats just the first thing that came to mind |
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Belgian Shepherd? I don't know that they are any smarter.
Google it. Lots of pages. |
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Much smarter than a German Shepard? Never heard of such a thing.
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That is very close, but the BM is smaller and lighter than the GSD, and this breed is the same size as the GSD. I've been googling for two hours and can't find it, this is grinding me. There's gotta be somebody on arfcom that knows more about dogs than I do. Also, I remember that this dog is expensive and only available from private breeders. I think it had a shorter coat but I'm not sure. The most important thing about this breed was that its temperament was very similar to a GSD but it was much smarter. I don't know if it's an AKC breed though, it could possibly just be a trademark that a breeder had going. I'll keep digging. |
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Bouvier Des Flanders
users.skynet.be/bouvier/index1.htm Probably not what you're looking for,,but my 6 month old,and 1yr "contained" our contractor and his helper/laborer.Good thing I showed up,they'd been boxed in for 2hrs |
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That's OK. The world will continue to rotate without your approval, and German Shepherd Dogs will continue to be known as GSD's. Carry on, though. |
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Excellent dogs, but the breed I'm looking for is very similar to a GSD. If I can't find what I'm looking for, a RR is next on the list. Edited for spelling... doh |
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I just did a search on my most important qualities and that site spat back Bergamasco Sheepdog as my best match. That might be even better for me. I cut and pasted the entire description here. I've never heard of this kind of dog before but I'm definitely interested in knowing more. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strong, sound and brave, the Bergamasco is above all very intelligent and balanced. The intelligence of the dog has been refined for natural selection. Being alone with hundreds of sheep to look after and having to sort out different and unexpected problems, caused the Bergamasco's intelligence to develop steadily. A careful selection was applied to eliminate excessive aggressiveness. Bergamasco is a peaceful dog. Puppies play together, without impulse towards rivalry. They grow up in harmony with each other and develop strong personal links which are never broken. Bergamasco show great respect for each other, they avoid irritating or provoking one another. They have strong, balanced characters, their highly developed dignity makes it possible for them to live in peace with each other in a community devoid of dominance and submission. The Bergamasco is a friend, never a follower. He does not submit, but obeys to demonstrate affection and will not do this under menace. He always needs to understand "why" he has to do something. A Bergamasco needs to be treated as the intelligent being which it is; only if you can make it understand rationally what you want of him, will comply with pleasure, but in its own way. He will never see you as a master but as a friend. Attentive and reserved, it participates constantly in everything which goes on around it and, even when it appears to be asleep, it eyes will be following you, because it always wants to know where you are and what you are up to. Although not instinctively aggressive, the Bergamasco is an excellent watch dog because it doesn't likes strangers invading its world. Its relationship with children is something special. Their presence awakens its most profound and primitive instincts, first as a wolf and then as a sheepdog. Patient, tolerant, attentive and protective, it seeks their company encouraging their games establishing true friendship with them. Anyone who owns a Bergamasco is also lucky enough to have an excellent Nanny on hand, part from feeling protected, loved and safe at all times. The Bergamasco is both a watch dog and guard and will alert when people come to the home, however, the Bergamasco is not aggressive as long as there is no serious threat to the family. The Bergamasco is great with all children and have been used as Therapy dogs for handicapped children. Bergamascos are usually okay with other dogs as long as they don't challenge them or appear as a threat. It is not recommended to place a Bergamasco with a very protective breed such as a Fila Brasileiro. They will usually do okay with cats, but it is best if they were brought up together while the dog is still a puppy. The Bergamasco sees each individual that comes to the house as a separate person. As to whether to Bergamasco is friendly with strangers; all depends on the feel of that person and what the dog senses. Italian born Bergamascos are more watchful then American born. The Bergamasco is not everybody's dog. It appearance, its character and its wonderful gifts of sensibility and intelligence, all that it represents of antiquity and modernism, have made it into a precious rarity which it is not easy to understand completely. |
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Lots smarter than a GSD? Can they read or something? Sheperds are among the smartest dogs I've ever encountered.
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Agree with others I don't know of any dogs more intelligent than a german shepherd, maybe you're thinking of the belgium malonois though?
I've read somewhere that they have the thinking process of a 7 year old child. And 2 times that of most celebrities and liberals. |
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My GSD can't read, but he does reload my ammo for me. |
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They are in Schutzhund and in IPO. |
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Siberian Husky. Smart, friendy, great jogging buddies, but unforunately not exactly what you are looking for. I love my husky. I was considering hijacking this thread, cause I need to get her a buddy, but I will start another one.
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My parents have a smaller dog, short hair, very smart, very protective too. I think it's an Austrailan breed. Maybe some type of Shepard? Some folks call them Blue Heelers too.
Balming |
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I was going to say Rhodesian Ridgeback, but I know they aren't really similar in looks to a GSD (is that even how you abbreviate german shepherd?) despite lots of similar qualities.
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I've had a Belgian Shepherd for 8 years and she is very intelligent. They are used as drug and bomb sniffers, police dogs and attack dogs along with herding.
She is stubborn though and you have to work with them a lot because they easily become bored. Wonderful personality though. Always has to be where I am. |
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Damn your dog is pretty. I've always wanted one of those. |
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Damn, sexy, Flanders |
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Define "Smart".
If we use one common definition of "intelligence"...The ability to acquire and apply knowledge...we find that all dogs have limited intelligence, and even that is really directed toward their own survival and the characteristics they have had bred into them...usually by man, but in some cases by nature and survival of the fittest. (Dingos for instance) Take what you read or hear about any breed with several grains of salt. A great deal of it is some fancier's addled vision of what he or she would like to believe about "their" breed of dog...or worse, some breeders BS to get you to buy their puppies. Worldwide, the GSD is the most selectively bred dog in history...and is also the breed with the most registered dogs in the world. (the world, NOT the US) That means you can find many variations within the breed, most of which depend upon what the dog was / is being bred to do, from looking pretty to some idiot AKC show judge, to searching for bad guys, to herding sheep the German way...which is a far cry from the way Border Collies herd sheep. What great, great grand daddy did in the distant past, may...or may not, have much influence on what the pup is capable of doing...and here we speak only of raw capability. That capability must be shaped and nurtured by proper and careful training and practice (no, they are not the same thing) if the dog is to actually be expected to perform work on demand. Then, of course, there is health, sound structure, and the inate "drives" that are bred into the dog FOR they work. Thus, the working dog is a "purpose-bred" animal. Most working dog people will agree that dogs bred for generations (remember, you can breed several "generations" of dogs in a decade or so) to perform specialized work which requires close co-operation with a human handler are the "most intelligent". This usually includes herding dog breeds...GSDs, Mals, Border Collies, Aussies, and Cattle dogs (Heelers) in this country and the less independent retrievers like the Labrador and Golden, etc. Other working breeds are no so "handler focused"...among them pointers, hounds and sled dog breeds. Many Terriers are "intelligent" but they are mostly focused on what THEY want...handlers are simply a vehicle for food and water, and to take them where they want to go. When you realize that many of the Terriers have been bred specifically to go underground and confront...to the death if necessary...game animals with teeth and claws as sharp as theirs, all alone, in the dark, etc. why would you NOT expect them to be independent, stubborn, hard as nails, love to dig and chase / kill small animals? They do tend to love people, and some are still used as working dogs, but they are not people oriented work dogs as the breeds mentioned above are. With dogs, believe what you SEE...not what you hear. |
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Check out Shiloh Shepherds. They match your description, except for size. They are from the GSD line but about twice the size of a typical GSD (minimum 120 pounds for males). I have one and I can say that they are smarter than the GSDs I have known. (And GSDs are definitely at or near the top in dog intelligence.) Mine is about 160 pounds. I think that is as big as he is going to get.
Mine did all the basic commands (sit, heel, come, lay down, etc.) with either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old -- without training. It rarely takes more than one or two sessions to teach him anything. He picks up on a lot of things without any training at all. If I do something the same way twice in a row, he will have picked up on the pattern the third time I do it, whether I was intending to train him or not. He responds to single finger commands even when I am not looking at him and haven't done anything special to get his attention. He will come from the other end of the yard (about fifty yards) if I just snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it -- no teaching involved. A lot of their owners report that they are "intuitive". They will pick up on what you want and do it even before you give them the command. I have seen it with my dog lots of times. You can read more about my dog at www.druglibrary.org/chopper You can find more about the Shiloh Shepherd breed just by searching Google. |
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It's RACIST! to assume that one dog is likely to be smarter than another just because of differences in breed.
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That's it! That's the one. |
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I remember reading that the IDF went to Belgium Shepards over Germans for their smarts and the small size was advantagous.
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There is another guy on the board who is planning to get one. If you want one, they typically run $1,000 to $3,000 or more. I paid $2,000 for mine -- well worth it. The breeders tend to be unusually devoted to their dogs and will probably want references from you and ask you to sign a contract that, among other things, requires you to send the dog back to them if you can't care for it for any reason. They mean it, too. I believe the other guy is getting one from the next litter of my breeder. majestic-knights-shilohs.com/ I can vouch for her. My dog is three years old and she still pesters me for photos and news on how he is doing. If you get one, you will hear a lot of people saying "Wow!" and "Magnificent!" as you walk him around. Mine attracts crowds. They are chick magnets like you wouldn't believe. |
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Before you buy a Shiloh Shepherd, you may want to check this page. I am thinking about buying one in the future but apparantly, you have to be really careful
Shiloh Shepherd Breeding |
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Yes, you certainly do. The breed founder, Lisa Barber, gives some good advice there. There are some people breeding what are supposedly Shilohs that didn't turn out that great. In some of them you can see a clear difference. For example, they are smaller, their snouts are pointier and the tale curls up over the back like a Husky. They also may have problems with their hips. These are to be avoided. However, there is a caution about the breed founder that I would add. She certainly did a good thing when she started the breed and set a standard way back in the early 1960s. One of the things she did right was to require hip certifications and all kinds of other health info before dogs could be bred as Shilohs. That set a pretty high standard and, as it turned out, there were a lot of other breeders interested in the same high standards. However, the record for the breed founder isn't looking so rosy lately. Breeders don't tend to stay in her organization for more than a few years because of what they claim is general mismanagement of the registry. Therefore, they have created other registries for Shilohs. Also, (can't find the link now, but it is on the web) Ma Shiloh (as she likes to call herself) has had several complaints by dissatisfied buyers in the last few years. This led to a few complaints to the Better Business Bureau. She didn't respond to any of those complaints. Also, there have been a few court judgments against her, including a new one by my breeder who just got a judgment against her for monies owed. A couple of those cases went so far as to have felony complaints filed against her. It is alleged that she promised first pick of the same litter to two different people -- and then never delivered a dog to either of them. Her stance is that once you give her a deposit for a dog, you pretty much have to take whatever she decides to give you, whenever she decides to give it, with no refunds. This info is on the web somewhere, with full court documentation, so this is not just rumor. I personally asked Ma Shiloh to explain the recent complaints, why she didn't respond to the BBB, and how some complaints went so far as to be filed as felonies. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, of course, but her response was not satisfactory IMO. I can recommend my breeder with confidence because I have known her for three years now. She doesn't produce a lot of dogs but the ones she does produce are done in individual litters and raised in her home until their owners get them. She also takes an ongoing interest in the dogs and wants all the health information as they grow so she can make plans about future litters. My breeder does ask by contract that every buyer of her dogs agrees to have the dog's hips evaluated so she can keep track of their health. That can cost you a few hundred bucks. Results of the hip tests can be found on her web site. She also takes responsibility for her dogs and has taken back one or two that had behavioral issues and placed them in homes where they could be better managed. My breeder recently split from ISSR because of various problems, one of which led to her winning a lawsuit against the breed founder. If my breeder does not have any available in the time frame someone wants them, I would take her judgment on recommending other breeders. |
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Is that a Shiloh or just a big GSD? Good-looking dog, whatever. |
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Yeah, I saw that. You beat me to it, but he needed a picture, I think. |
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Thanks! Not a Shiloh, he's just big! Weighed him about a year ago, He probably weighs more now! |
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Sorry, but it is... |
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Why? Does their size make it easier to infiltrate palestinian terrorist hideouts with explosives strapped around their body? Sorry... |
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Critter is correct. For some reason GS owners like to refer to their pets as German Shepherd Dogs -- as if the "Dog" part was really necessary. Maybe there are some GSCs (German Shepherd Cows) or something. |
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It's not really that we like to call them that, but the fact is that it is the recognized proper name for the breed- Lee |
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ACD Australian Cattle dogs. They come in blue and red. |
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