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Posted: 12/20/2003 7:54:02 PM EDT
Just out of downtown Houston, TX.  I took a turn off of Dallas onto Bailey, to get to West Gray.  This is a five block stretch that has ghetto in the first three blocks and $400k town-homes on the next two before it intersects West Gray.

The street is pretty dark.  We aproached a stop-sign and saw one brother on a bike and three brothers step out of the shadows onto the road.  Now I have four moving targets as I approach the intersection.  

The bike dude moves into the middle of the street and starts riding in a lazy circle.  One guy walks into the middle of the street and the other two stepped into the street but stayed on the edge of the road.

I pulled my .45 auto out and put it in my lap, slowed a little and when the bike dude was just off the port fender, I gave the car a little gas and blazed through the group.  

I probably missed the dude in the street by a foot and the bike guy by a foot.  They were cussing at us as we drove past them, but I didn't see any firearms out.

Best case:  They were our friendly local ghetto drug dealers and thought we were in their Hoody-Hood-Hood to buy some drugs.

Worst case:  They thought they would get to jack my red Miata.

Either way, they were gonna get

1) Run the fuck over if they had not have gotten out of the way and

2) shot if they reached into the car or pointed anything our way.

GOT TO LOVE HOUSTON or any big city for that matter.  

MY STUPID ACT:  I know this area and knew I should not have turned down that street at night but did it anyway and put myself and my girlfriend at risk.  I thought (Strike that, I obviously did not think or I would not have put us in this position) that the gentrification that has been going on in the area had cleaned that place up.  
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 7:56:49 PM EDT
Get an SUV with an aftermarket bumper.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:08:24 PM EDT
Funny you should mention that.  I may go old school on the SUV and get a 1983 Toyota LandCruiser (or crusher in this case).  That wuold have probably gone over the bike and its ghetto defendant rider without leaving a scratch.  

BTW:  I admit it, I was very concerned, well actually, bullshit aside, it was scary.  I was going to hit the fuckers it they didn't move out of the way.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:08:56 PM EDT
Could have pulled a Rockford - hit reverse and spin it around.

I've had similar things start to occur in San Fran and Camden NJ - that's when you just start running stop signs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:14:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 8:15:01 PM EDT by SC-Texas]
Yep, I didn't stop for the stop-sign either.  

I was waiting for the BLING-BLINGed Suburban with the wheels that won't stop spinning to block the fuckin' intersection!

Wher the Fuck is clean-cut on this?  He lives in my part of Houston also!
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:18:03 PM EDT
Sounds like you were being setup for robbery or car jacking. You did right.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:32:15 PM EDT
Wow, sounds like you had an almost tonight alright!

You damn sure used the right judgment, and those homeboys don't know how lucky they are.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:58:41 PM EDT
Most likely just punk kids.  I was walking downtown Cleveland one time and these 4 wannabee youth types with thier sports team jackets were walking 4 wide down the sidewalk making the decent folks move over and walk around them, I say frig that I do right down the middle and split them bumping shoulders with the middle two. Bring it on chumps a glock beats a silver lorcin anyday.


Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:04:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SC-Texas:

Worst case:  They thought they would get to jack my red Miata.

View Quote


A Miata? you're kidding right?

Dude, we NEED to talk. That car is in serious danger... Not of being carjacked but being run over by small children on skateboards.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:08:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 9:10:20 PM EDT by Taxman]
Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Get an SUV with an aftermarket bumper.
View Quote




Or my black SS Impala abit over 2 tons, about 4 inches on space from the ground, big tires and a 350LT1.  Makes people move who try to block it, tough car, one downside looks somewhat like a drugdealer car.




On what I would have done, I would have went through them like you did, and if they pulled anything or tried to get in my car shot with one of my 2 pistols in it, one is my car gun, incase I cant get to my carry gun.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:09:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
...my red Miata.
View Quote


Chick car.

[;)] JK!
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:17:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Originally Posted By SC-Texas:

Worst case:  They thought they would get to jack my red Miata.

View Quote


A Miata? you're kidding right?

Dude, we NEED to talk. That car is in serious danger... Not of being carjacked but being run over by small children on skateboards.
View Quote


DrFrige is right. Remember Newton's 5th law of motion.

CW
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:30:59 PM EDT
At first glance, I thought the thread had reference to you [b]Swimming[/b] in [b]Whitney Houston's[/b] gene pool. My thought was "Wow! my hero! I hope he got pics! I hope he did it before she got so damned skinny!"

Having read the thread, I'd say you did the right thing, but remember that a car is a deadly weapon. Kill or injure somebody with one and you're going to have some explaining to do. While I've been in similar situations and know what you're talking about, what you posted boils down (in the cynic's/investigator's pot) to "They looked scary and suspicious so I . . ." That won't cut it if you end up with FUBU scraps in your wheel wells. The key in these matters is (once it's time to talk) being able to clearly describe the "clues" that sent you to defcon 4. A looked at B. B looked at me and nodded to A. A looked at C who nodded. A rode out into the path of my car. A repeatedly looked me in the eye as I approached. B and C, maintaining visual contact with each other and with B, walked out to join the roadblock. The expressions on their faces were clearly menacing. They were reaching under their shirts to areas I know to be common places for carrying handguns. I had no safe escape route. Et c., et c.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:36:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
At first glance, I thought the thread had reference to you [b]Swimming[/b] in [b]Whitney Houston's[/b] gene pool. My thought was "Wow! my hero! I hope he got pics! I hope he did it before she got so damned skinny!"

Having read the thread, I'd say you did the right thing, but remember that a car is a deadly weapon. Kill or injure somebody with one and you're going to have some explaining to do. While I've been in similar situations and know what you're talking about, what you posted boils down (in the cynic's/investigator's pot) to "They looked scary and suspicious so I . . ." That won't cut it if you end up with FUBU scraps in your wheel wells. The key in these matters is (once it's time to talk) being able to clearly describe the "clues" that sent you to [red]defcon 4[/red]. A looked at B. B looked at me and nodded to A. A looked at C who nodded. A rode out into the path of my car. A repeatedly looked me in the eye as I approached. B and C, maintaining visual contact with each other and with B, walked out to join the roadblock. The expressions on their faces were clearly menacing. They were reaching under their shirts to areas I know to be common places for carrying handguns. I had no safe escape route. Et c., et c.
View Quote


The few times I've been to Houston and traveled thru the "less fortunate" areas of town I felt I was at Defcon 4 at a minimum. I think you meant Defcon 2.

CW
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:41:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 10:46:11 PM EDT by SC-Texas]
FLAL1A, you are absolutely correct:  Anytime someone gets run over or plugged, there is a LOT of splin'in to do Lucy!

a.  It is defcon 1- launching nukes & Defcon 2, cocked & unlocked, bobmbers holding at failsafe:)

b.  Criminal aspect:  Officer, I didn't mean to run over the bro, he just jumped out in front of me.  At this time, the cops are taking him to the hospital and then it will be on to the jail for outstanding warrants.  His homies will have already been taken down for the same if they weren't shot by then for pressing the issue.

c.  I have seen lots of pedestrian cases tried in Houston and MOST of them result in the jury finding no defendant negligence- the juries basically say that the stupid fucking pedestrian should not have stepped out in front of a moving car.  I swear, it is scary to be aq plaintiff in Harris county.

d.  The standard is would a reasonable person feel that his life was threatened?  Probably- 4 brothers, in a bad neighborhood, moving from the shadows, into the intersection and blocking a lone car traveling down the street and positioning themselves in what was obviously a military encirclement maneuver?

Two relevant Texas Statutes:

§ 9.31. Self-Defense



(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.



(b) The use of force against another is not justified:



(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;



(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);



(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;



(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:



(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and



(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor; or



(5) if the actor sought an explanation from or discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences with the other person while the actor was:



(A) carrying a weapon in violation of Section 46.02; or



(B) possessing or transporting a weapon in violation of Section 46.05.



(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:



(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and



(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.



(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.




§ 9.32. Deadly Force in Defense of Person



(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:



(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31;



(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and



(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:



(A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or



(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.



(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.


Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:43:03 PM EDT
I really like my miata.  Plenty of room for my evil black rifles and a case of ammo:)

They may think its a chick car, but then the guns start popping out and they think its James Fucking Bond or somethin'

:)
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:43:05 PM EDT
My bad. I got mixed up and thought about his actions, not the theoretical scenario. Defcon 1 it is.

CW
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:45:38 PM EDT
Well said, SC-Texas. My point is simply that details about the basis for perception of threat - particularly when you are uninjured - will often save an actor's ass when his decision is reviewed.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:47:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 10:47:57 PM EDT by Cold_Warrior]
It's a lot easier in CA. All you have to do is say you saw Ahnold do it in a movie.

CW
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:52:39 PM EDT
Use the bumper, thats what it's for!
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 11:23:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
I really like my miata.  Plenty of room for my evil black rifles and a case of ammo:)

They may think its a chick car, but then the guns start popping out and they think its James Fucking Bond or somethin'

:)
View Quote


I got you beat on carrying room, I can take about 6 rifles in the trunk without stacking them one being an ar50, and alot of ammo, granted thats in a 95 impala which other then the body shape, some of the interior power options and lights looks like it came from the 70's complete with the trunk that can hold about 6 bodies.  You probaly got my 78 trans am on space, it doesnt have room to carry anything in it, but you get to feel like Burt Reynolds in smokey and the bandit.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 11:30:42 PM EDT
Burt freakin' Reynolds.  I still like those 78 TAs!

My uncle bought one way back in the day.  We still laugh about that car and he says it was a lot of fun to drive.  Even had the eagle decal.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 12:50:15 AM EDT
Around here Miatas are refered to as My or Your Little Sister's car.

Sounds like they were thinkin you were on abuying trip.  The question then becomes are they sellers and not really a threat or stealers and a threat.

Profiling aside, a lot of folks are going to be asking WTF you doing there if things go to shit.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 4:41:10 AM EDT
"He was a good keeeid", I hear over and over again from a sobbing mother on the 11 o'clock news.
Nevermind the long rap sheet, the rocks or the chrome lorcin.
That is generally Cleveland after dark, probably like Anytown U.S.A..
At best, you broke up what they thought was a routine transaction, even with your bitty little car.
The sound of a 4 barrel carb opening up scatters 'em too, I know that for a fact. [;)]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 5:11:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 5:12:06 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 5:30:20 AM EDT
If you do squash one, expect to draw a crowd.
When the police show up, they tend to watch their backs as well as protect you from the mob.
Ugly aftermath and witnesses will swear you swerved to hit 'em.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 5:48:16 AM EDT
I say it was a good safe call. Nobody got hurt, nobody went to jail or the hospital, and most importantly, you got to go home with the girl.[;)] Did you get lucky?
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:01:06 AM EDT
Why so presumptive of ill intent. They were all probably jockeying for position to get to your window to collect the commission of the crack sale they assumed you were looking for.

Don't squish one.

BTDT, it's no fun.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:08:58 AM EDT
Just for the record, Burt had a '77 T/A.[;)]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 9:47:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
Yep, I didn't stop for the stop-sign either.  

I was waiting for the BLING-BLINGed Suburban with the wheels that won't stop spinning to block the fuckin' intersection!

[red]Wher the Fuck is clean-cut on this?  He lives in my part of Houston also![/red]
View Quote



Glad you made it through without incident.

Those guys wouldn't harass [i]me[/i], only the Man like yourself. [:D]

Anyway, I was having dinner with my mother and brother in a restaurant across the freeway from the Whataburger that was held up.

I sat facing the door and had my Glock 19 loaded with 15 rounds of Hydra-shok, just in case.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:28:28 AM EDT
I made it to Albequorque without incident.  No one tried to car jack therental car:)
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