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Posted: 7/15/2008 9:55:02 PM EDT
Poll coming.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:58:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:00:16 PM EDT by machinisttx]
Depends on who won.

If the right people won, a true rebirth of freedom. If the wrong people won, a heavy handed dictatorship similar to the most hated leaders of last century.

Edit-- If a certain member on this site won, no jobs in the U.S., endless nation building, and an attempt at global conquest(and probably a huge expansion of the ATF just to keep the serfs in line).
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:59:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:59:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:02:11 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Poll coming.


A dictatorship - either fascist or socialist...

Let's say 5% of the population believes in 'left-wing revolution'

And 5% believes in 'right-wing revolution'

We can assume that these 5% groups won't fight on the same side, but if one starts a revolt, the other might sit things out rather than help the government...

You still have 90% that either doesn't care (so long as their life goes on) or opposes revolution...


Disrupt the way of life of those 90%, and they will ensure that the first man who can answer the call 'MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP!' will be placed in charge of that 90% and the resources they control...

The end result will be the revolutionaries lined up against a wall & shot... And the end of freedom in America, perhaps world wide (as we would no longer be able to uphold it, or might actually embark on conquest/taking it)....

A repeat of 1776 is IMPOSSIBLE - the American revolution was a ONCE IN A MILLENNIUM event, not a repeatable experiment
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Poll coming.


A dictatorship - either fascist or socialist...

Let's say 5% of the population believes in 'left-wing revolution'

And 5% believes in 'right-wing revolution'

You still have 90% that either doesn't care or opposes revolution...

Disrupt the way of life of those 90%, and they will ensure that the first man who can answer the call 'MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP!' will be placed in charge of that 90% and the resources they control...

The end result will be the revolutionaries lined up against a wall & shot... And the end of freedom in America, perhaps world wide (as we would no longer be able to uphold it, or might actually embark on conquest/taking it)....


This is what would almost certainly happen barring a miracle similar to what happened in 1776 and 1789.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:35:37 PM EDT
Many dead people.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:37:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justsayin:
Many dead people.


+1
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:39:11 PM EDT
Dictaotroship
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justsayin:
Many dead people.*


*Americans
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:45:25 PM EDT
Many dead people, and a very rapid move towards totalitarianism and, most likely, socialism.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:49:01 PM EDT
Unless you have a F22 or M1 Abrams. People lose.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:51:32 PM EDT
If it happens I am moving to Texas or Montana....and fast!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:52:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:54:36 PM EDT by 1Andy2]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Poll coming.


A dictatorship - either fascist or socialist...

Let's say 5% of the population believes in 'left-wing revolution'

And 5% believes in 'right-wing revolution'

We can assume that these 5% groups won't fight on the same side, but if one starts a revolt, the other might sit things out rather than help the government...

You still have 90% that either doesn't care (so long as their life goes on) or opposes revolution...


Disrupt the way of life of those 90%, and they will ensure that the first man who can answer the call 'MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP!' will be placed in charge of that 90% and the resources they control...

The end result will be the revolutionaries lined up against a wall & shot... And the end of freedom in America, perhaps world wide (as we would no longer be able to uphold it, or might actually embark on conquest/taking it)....

A repeat of 1776 is IMPOSSIBLE - the American revolution was a ONCE IN A MILLENNIUM event, not a repeatable experiment


The great and mysterious Dave has spoken!

ETA: For what its worth, only a significant and vocal/active minority was actually for secession from the empire. Most historians peg it somewhere between 25 and 33 percent.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:53:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:57:34 PM EDT by tc556guy]
The unified USA as we know it would be destroyed. Look at all modern civil wars; do you see any nations emerging from those wars in any condition to continue as intact, productive nations? No. We'd have every predatory nation on the face of the planet picking our nations bones apart for what they could haul off. Why the OP even included a 1780s version of the USA as an option is beyond me; we don't live in the 18th century, our shores would not protect us, so even having that as an option is pure fantasy.


Originally Posted By BenWa:
If it happens I am moving to Texas or Montana....and fast!


Texas, contrary to the fantasies of residents there, would get absorbed into mexico within a decade. Montana would be absorbed back into Canada. Any other fantasies ?

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:54:09 PM EDT
I'd wager some sort of military rule. Unless the military fragments, which I find doubtful.

Basically it would come down to "knock it off!" and transition back to democracy.

As long as the military leader was trustworthy and committed to returning to citizen rule (on some terms), you wouldn't see much of a guerrilla war.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:57:55 PM EDT
Other:

Greedy countries would divide up the corpse of the USA among themselves. This would start when the .gov invites the Blue Helmets in to help keep the peace.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:00:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
Other:

Greedy countries would divide up the corpse of the USA among themselves. This would start when the .gov invites the Blue Helmets in to help keep the peace.


No matter the color of the helmet....fascism is facism. I do agree with your assessment.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:06:13 PM EDT
Though I tend to agree with the idea of a dictatorship being the result of any revolution, I would point to how America is different in pretty much everything we do. Our Congress has a 9% approval rating and the vast majority of Americans (per the last poll I saw--it has been a few months) believe we are going in the wrong direction as a nation generally. And there is no real prospect of any sort of civil unrest. What other nations have been able to say that? Further, when Nixon resigned there was no chance of civil war or anything of that nature. In fact he went on to do a lot of good things for our government later in life. We don't exactly have a typical history when it comes to things that would normally destabilize a nation. So even though I think a dictatorship is the likely result of any revolution in the US, I think we of all nations have the best shot of actually doing something good with a revolution.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 11:10:39 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Revolution would be led by and won by Marxists. The result would be an even larger and stronger Socialist autocracy. Even more welfare-statism. A quasi-slave state in which producers are "allowed" only a minority of their wages, freedoms and property and are really just tools and pawns used by the tiny fraction of the ultra-rich to stave off the simmering anger of the masses of lazy uneducable sloths, grunts and criminals slouching their way through the Walmarts and McDonald's of America.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:10:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Assault-Rifle-City:

Originally Posted By justsayin:
Many dead people.*


*Americans


Thanks
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:11:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
The unified USA as we know it would be destroyed. Look at all modern civil wars; do you see any nations emerging from those wars in any condition to continue as intact, productive nations? No. We'd have every predatory nation on the face of the planet picking our nations bones apart for what they could haul off. Why the OP even included a 1780s version of the USA as an option is beyond me; we don't live in the 18th century, our shores would not protect us, so even having that as an option is pure fantasy.


Originally Posted By BenWa:
If it happens I am moving to Texas or Montana....and fast!


Texas, contrary to the fantasies of residents there, would get absorbed into mexico within a decade. Montana would be absorbed back into Canada. Any other fantasies ?



Ahem. We seemed to whoop their asses and stay independent for 10 years the first time around. Now we're all manner of more developed, industrialized, and armed. I call bullshit.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:11:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Revolution would be led by and won by Marxists. The result would be an even larger and strong Socialist autocracy. Even more welfare-statism. A quasi-slave state in which producers are "allowed" only a minority of their wages, freedoms and property and are really just tools and pawns used by the tiny fraction of the ultra-rich to stave off the simmering anger of the masses of lazy uneducable sloths, grunts and criminals slouching their way through the Walmarts and McDonald's of America.

Wait, you're describing the current state of the nation right?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:12:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tony7189:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Revolution would be led by and won by Marxists. The result would be an even larger and strong Socialist autocracy. Even more welfare-statism. A quasi-slave state in which producers are "allowed" only a minority of their wages, freedoms and property and are really just tools and pawns used by the tiny fraction of the ultra-rich to stave off the simmering anger of the masses of lazy uneducable sloths, grunts and criminals slouching their way through the Walmarts and McDonald's of America.

Wait, you're describing the current state of the nation right?

Yes.

The revolution is over. They won. We surrendered.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:14:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 11:23:49 PM EDT by RileyS]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

A repeat of 1776 is IMPOSSIBLE - the American revolution was a ONCE IN A MILLENNIUM event, not a repeatable experiment


Funny, I recall it being declared impossible during the first go around!

ETA: I voted Balkanized regions, as I think people during times of crisis will revert to the safety net of the society around them. I think the outcome depends on the source of the revolution. One thing is for sure, if there is a revolution, our govt. will not become any more likable, the steps it will take to ensure its existence will more than likely make it abhorrent, and worthy of revolution. I do not think socialism is a likely source of revolution, the standard of living is simply too high, all leftist revolutions of the past are based on what where rather legitimate needs of the people. In the US, leftists are more content with the wealth redistribution already in place.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:15:57 PM EDT
my oldest son was born in alabama
my youngest son is all covered in hair
my middile'n says he's a homersexual
an ta other seven runned off I don't know where
and I just dont care
I dont give a damn.

wait.....what were we talking about??
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:20:42 PM EDT
Here is a thought, we as ARFCOMMERS, are Constituion loving people. We are basically Patriots.
I think the Patriot for the COnstituiton would prevail in a full on revolution with actual fighting involved.
I would venture to say that most Marxist type people would not be as armed as a Patriot and would not defend to the death.
this also leads to the belief that this would never happen.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 11:25:47 PM EDT by RileyS]

Originally Posted By SlipShot762:
my oldest son was born in alabama
my youngest son is all covered in hair
my middile'n says he's a homersexual
an ta other seven runned off I don't know where
and I just dont care
I dont give a damn.

wait.....what were we talking about??


OMFG!!!! Squidbillies FTW!

"You mean like some giant moon-base thirty-ought six?"

Page two belongs to Dan Halen Sheetrock international!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:25:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Ahem. We seemed to whoop their asses and stay independent for 10 years the first time around. Now we're all manner of more developed, industrialized, and armed. I call bullshit.

It would be a war of attrition; thats why I say within a decade you'd be absorbed. Sure, you'd put up a fight.....but it would end in your annexation. Not right away, but sooner or later they'd be circling you like a vulcture, and theres no way that TX is gonna hold out for long. You'll be speaking Spanish and the Mexican flag would be flying over the gutted ruins of every major Texas city.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:30:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
Here is a thought, we as ARFCOMMERS, are Constituion loving people. We are basically Patriots.
I think the Patriot for the COnstituiton would prevail in a full on revolution with actual fighting involved.
I would venture to say that most Marxist type people would not be as armed as a Patriot and would not defend to the death.
this also leads to the belief that this would never happen.


The constitution did not go far enough, this time, we will explain exactly what we mean, leave long paper trails and even personal writings that can be used by unelected, impartial judges to decipher what we meant, even hundreds of years from now.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 11:34:13 PM EDT

OMFG!!!! Squidbillies FTW!

"You mean like some giant moon-base thirty-ought six?"

Page two belongs to Dan Halen Sheetrock international!


sumhow i gots spinal meningitis
injectin all at hairspray into my spine
its an ultra cheap way 2 party
if ye need to kill sum braincells n sum time
good luck gettin at child support from me now.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:04:24 AM EDT
We would end up Balkanized and while it would be a political fight, the men making up either side would end up looking like a race war. (yeah yeah Dave_A 88.) The majority of White Leftist in this country are merely pacifist sheep, they won't fight. It would be Whites on the right, fighting minorities on the left. Nations like China, Russia or Britain would back one or the other side, as happened in our Vietnam and Russia's Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:07:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Ahem. We seemed to whoop their asses and stay independent for 10 years the first time around. Now we're all manner of more developed, industrialized, and armed. I call bullshit.

It would be a war of attrition; thats why I say within a decade you'd be absorbed. Sure, you'd put up a fight.....but it would end in your annexation. Not right away, but sooner or later they'd be circling you like a vulcture, and theres no way that TX is gonna hold out for long. You'll be speaking Spanish and the Mexican flag would be flying over the gutted ruins of every major Texas city.


Thanks for the tip. Be sure to let me know if your crystal ball gives you lotto numbers, too.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:22:13 AM EDT
The guys with the tanks would win over the little people





Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:25:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Ahem. We seemed to whoop their asses and stay independent for 10 years the first time around. Now we're all manner of more developed, industrialized, and armed. I call bullshit.

It would be a war of attrition; thats why I say within a decade you'd be absorbed. Sure, you'd put up a fight.....but it would end in your annexation. Not right away, but sooner or later they'd be circling you like a vulcture, and theres no way that TX is gonna hold out for long. You'll be speaking Spanish and the Mexican flag would be flying over the gutted ruins of every major Texas city.



Not if the fine folks of Tennessee had anything to do with it...

Remember the Alamo...Oh, Wait...What?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:45:03 AM EDT
Texas has a huge and well trained military presence. They have nukes etc. I am pretty sure they could spoil more than a few Mexicans' siesta. Texas V. Mexico = Mexico Fail
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 2:21:48 AM EDT
only one way to find out.

here, hold my beer...

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 2:59:18 AM EDT
We'd either be free or dead.


Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:23:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:26:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Depends on who won.

If the right people won, a true rebirth of freedom. If the wrong people won, a heavy handed dictatorship similar to the most hated leaders of last century.

Edit-- If a certain member on this site won, no jobs in the U.S., endless nation building, and an attempt at global conquest(and probably a huge expansion of the ATF just to keep the serfs in line).

You're not talking about Dave-A are you?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:30:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Revolution would be led by and won by Marxists. The result would be an even larger and stronger Socialist autocracy. Even more welfare-statism. A quasi-slave state in which producers are "allowed" only a minority of their wages, freedoms and property and are really just tools and pawns used by the tiny fraction of the ultra-rich to stave off the simmering anger of the masses of lazy uneducable sloths, grunts and criminals slouching their way through the Walmarts and McDonald's of America.



Somebody's got a case of "The Mondays"
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:41:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 3:42:42 AM EDT by nukldragr]
As the US goes so goes the rest of the friggen planet. If we aren't here to provide the bulk of disaster relieve or peace keeping, nation building, humanitarian aiding, or destruction of truly evil people, who will? Sorry Vitto, it aint the Queen, your troops have the balls just not the resources. IMHO. Look at all the bad guys we have knocked to the mat but haven't exterminated completely. Europe would go up in flames, those that didn't get drug into the meat grinder here as blue helmets. Central America would revert to the 70s and 80s we all know what would happen across Asia. If America were to have a civil war within 10 years it would be a global thunder dome


Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:49:04 AM EDT
I'm afraid that once the civil authorities get distracted by trying to suppress the revolt, we'd have Katrina style looting on a national basis. The revolters, and probably the .gov's as well, would both be constantly dealing with more and more sophistocated attacks by gangs of looters. There isn't ammo enough to take care of all of them.

Side note, every truly democratic revolution that has occurred for at least the past 300 years (probably longer) has been spearheaded by freemasons - maybe not the fraternity itself, but the governments that surfaced after the smoke cleared followed a masonic leadership model, this is probably why Freemasonry gets banned almost the same time guns get banned in every country that heads down the dictatorship/communist/Fascist, etc... path.

In the 50's, freemasonry in the US veered off its traditional course due to a period of unprecedented membership gain. The result was a watered down version of the fraternity that was trying to prove they were normal guys who did charitable work like the Elks or Moose or Eagles or Rotary, etc...


A successful revolution would have to have international involvement from an outside government with big toys. No one would be interested in that anymore because the UN would not condone it. Revolution will be individuals or perhaps communities against The Man. Waco, Montana Freemen, etc...

You get the knock on your door and you either comply, or start shooting. If you start shooting, you get killed, but you died free. If you comply, you live (at least for a while), but you hand over your rights.

But what the hell do I know?

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:50:36 AM EDT
You mean THIRD American revolution, right? The outcome? Probably about the same as the second (the Civil War). MORE federal control, less freedom.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:53:06 AM EDT
Since there are more have-nots than have's, probably something like the Bolshevik Revolution. In modern times, Revolutions just about always end up turning the country into a communistic cesspool. With all of the guns those of us who value freedom have, we would be no match for hordes of welfare recipients toting crowbars and baseball bats.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:55:02 AM EDT
What would the map of the USA look like if you subtracted the red from the blue states and the states that aztlan claims?


-really, anybody able to photoshop this?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:55:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SlipShot762:
my oldest son was born in alabama
my youngest son is all covered in hair
my middile'n says he's a homersexual
an ta other seven runned off I don't know where
and I just dont care
I dont give a damn.

wait.....what were we talking about??


My favorite was the original theme:

My dreams are all dead and buried.
Sometimes I wish the sun would just explode.
When god comes and calls me to his kingdom,
I'll take all you sons of bitches when I go......

my turn daddy, my turn. DO NOT TOUCH THE TRIM!

Now I think I go and down a six pack of "GLUG".
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 3:58:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Poll coming.


A dictatorship - either fascist or socialist...

Let's say 5% of the population believes in 'left-wing revolution'

And 5% believes in 'right-wing revolution'

We can assume that these 5% groups won't fight on the same side, but if one starts a revolt, the other might sit things out rather than help the government...

You still have 90% that either doesn't care (so long as their life goes on) or opposes revolution...


Disrupt the way of life of those 90%, and they will ensure that the first man who can answer the call 'MAKE IT STOP, PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP!' will be placed in charge of that 90% and the resources they control...

The end result will be the revolutionaries lined up against a wall & shot... And the end of freedom in America, perhaps world wide (as we would no longer be able to uphold it, or might actually embark on conquest/taking it)....

A repeat of 1776 is IMPOSSIBLE - the American revolution was a ONCE IN A MILLENNIUM event, not a repeatable experiment
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:14:03 AM EDT
There will be no revolution.

In the American Revolution, the economic and social leaders of the Colonies were instrumental in forming the Continental Congress and equipping the Army. These men knew exactly what the price of failure would be.


Our wealthy class in the U.S. today would simply bail out to a more stable situation and leave the rest of us to die. There is no allegiance to the United States anymore among the wealthy, only the expectation of monetary and social stability. There isn't that much loyalty to the Nation among the rest of the populace, for that matter. Do not fool yourselves into thinking someone would step up and finance a revolutionary army. The upper-class demands stability, not freedom, because they can afford to buy their freedoms when others can't.

Anyone fool enough to stand up to the military-industrial complex of the U.S. will get mowed down. Mercy will not be granted nor will there be any grieving for the dead. There is far too much money at risk for them to ever consider anything but the destruction of anyone who gets in the way.

J.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:17:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
There will be no revolution.

In the American Revolution, the economic and social leaders of the Colonies were instrumental in forming the Continental Congress and equipping the Army. These men knew exactly what the price of failure would be.


Our wealthy class in the U.S. today would simply bail out to a more stable situation and leave the rest of us to die. There is no allegiance to the United States anymore among the wealthy, only the expectation of monetary and social stability. There isn't that much loyalty to the Nation among the rest of the populace, for that matter. Do not fool yourselves into thinking someone would step up and finance a revolutionary army. The upper-class demands stability, not freedom, because they can afford to buy their freedoms when others can't.

Anyone fool enough to stand up to the military-industrial complex of the U.S. will get mowed down. Mercy will not be granted nor will there be any grieving for the dead. There is far too much money at risk for them to ever consider anything but the destruction of anyone who gets in the way.

J.
This post only solidifies my theory of a Marxist Revolution. It seems like it is chic to hate the rich, wealthy or the landowner these days. Far more people hate the rich than the Communist, or the Islamic Jihadist.

It is this very type of thinking that will sink our Republic.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:25:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Since there are more have-nots than have's, probably something like the Bolshevik Revolution. In modern times, Revolutions just about always end up turning the country into a communistic cesspool. With all of the guns those of us who value freedom have, we would be no match for hordes of welfare recipients toting crowbars and baseball bats.


unless you have an ammo fort.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:28:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Since there are more have-nots than have's, probably something like the Bolshevik Revolution. In modern times, Revolutions just about always end up turning the country into a communistic cesspool. With all of the guns those of us who value freedom have, we would be no match for hordes of welfare recipients toting crowbars and baseball bats.


unless you have an ammo fort.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/pighelmet/motivator9851924ps8.jpg
No ammo fort, but my house is on the high ground, I can vote from the roof top if necessary.
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