Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/15/2001 9:21:48 PM EDT
Been pondering this for awhile now. I think that regardless of machines on the battlefeild, personall small arms will be almost allways with us. So... We've been with projectile weapons propelled by a fast burning powder for quite some time now. (Like 1500 years) Something new has to be just over the horizon. Maybey laser guns or some other direct energy weapon? 982,080,000 fps does seem like a step forward. Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 9:47:21 PM EDT
probly some sort of energy weapon like zapper or something well in the way of future probly some kind of smart round for near future
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 9:49:33 PM EDT
How about man-portable rail guns? [rail]
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 9:50:59 PM EDT
I guess it would be someone growing a small arm in the shape of a penis off of another arm?
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 9:57:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2001 9:54:28 PM EDT by Maynard]
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 10:01:34 PM EDT
well by smart ammo i mean like a smart bomb knows where it needs to go but the troops would still have "dumb" munitions just the smart ammo would be the grenade
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 10:07:30 PM EDT
How 'bout puttin' sights on the side of my Tec-9? It would make target aquisition alot easier in urban enviroments.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 10:30:25 PM EDT
The next advance which is already basically arrived will be in optics...helmet-mounted HUD with a connection to the gun's electronic sight. After that, I expect to see electronic ignition, plastic cased ammo followed by caseless ammo. Anything further will most likely have to wait for the perfection of high-temp superconductors...when those are in the mix, we can start talking hand-held electromagnetic coil guns.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 10:55:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 11:17:58 PM EDT
Whatever it is, civilians won't be allowed to own it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 11:20:38 PM EDT
Probably scaled down rail guns. If they can accerlerate a BB to say half of light speed, laser/plasma weapons won't be able to improve on that, I wouldn't think. Bullets/grenades/mini rockets that can be steered around corners, air burst, or lock on thier targets will still basically be driven by fast burning powder/expanding gases. I think targeting systems are about to evolve to as previously mentioned, and that will have a major impact on the small arms scene.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 12:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2001 12:28:44 AM EDT by TK]
how about laser guided bullets? [url]http://www.auburn.edu/administration/univrel/news/archive/5_97news/5_97smartbullets.html[/url] [url]http://www.technodynamic.com/todd/military3.html[/url] "There are no near-misses with BLAM, says Barret. Every bullet scores a direct hit. As a result, a perfectly placed shot can disable a tank or take down a helicopter. It is a sniper's dream come true." seen these on TLC i think, or maybe discovery, a few years back. have been trying to follow the development since then but not much info is out there. almost takes the fun out of it tho... edited the links
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 1:33:54 AM EDT
Caseless ammo. Simple, and effective. That way more government types can spray even more ammo while we can only ... ah crap....screw it. Caseless ammo is my answer.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 2:27:04 AM EDT
Target acquisition by tracking the human eye. Ranging and all relevant data will done by electronics and user can program how precise his aiming must be. In hostile environments settings can be geared to fast and loose shooting of combatants, or in situations with more restrictive rules of engagement the settings can be finely tuned. Traditional marksmanship will be replaced by technology.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 3:16:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TacCar: Probably scaled down rail guns. If they can accerlerate a BB to say half of light speed, laser/plasma weapons won't be able to improve on that, I wouldn't think.
View Quote
Better buy your BB's now by the truckload. If this ever happens, BB's will be illegal.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 3:28:39 AM EDT
As I am ex infantry now engineers, I reckon a selective fire rifle with simplicity, compactability, accuracy, lethality, range, ergonomically friendly, reliability, robustness, light weight, maybe effective caseless ammo, day/night optics, possible interchangeable parts and mags from other wpns, well designed, cost effective, soldier friendly, but most inportantly made in the USA or a western nation. Also, able to work in a pan-climactic environment, and have a long 'user life', other words a hard wearing rifle.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 3:41:27 AM EDT
[size=4]Non Lethal weapons[/size=4] Once the cops have "phasers", they will get rid of guns, since the liability would be too high. "Why did you shoot him, you could have stunned him?" Once the cops don't need guns, why do you? (of course you won't be able to buy a phaser)
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 4:06:30 AM EDT
New, improved forms of caseless ammo. Tyler
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 4:13:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth: Caseless ammo. Simple, and effective. That way more government types can spray even more ammo while we can only ... ah crap....screw it. Caseless ammo is my answer.
View Quote
Yep, the "Self Firing Black Forest Cuckoo Clock" HK G11 was the first step in this direction. The June issue of Small Arms Review had an article about the NDIA Small Arms Conference where these advances were discussed. Steerable munitions that can seek a target are also the next advance forseen by the author.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 4:34:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard: Smart guns are going to be pushed down our throats by many different agencies with many different motivations. They can have 'em as far as I am concerned. What I do find intriuging is the "Etronx" ignition system. IIRC, The trigger has no mechanical parts and offers very little resistance when pulled. Sounds like a very nice trigger idea to me but I would not use it for anything but punching paper.
View Quote
Etronix [i]is[/i] the first "smart" gun. Already their safety has an automatic time-out period. You can only carry it it off safe for a little while. The mechanism requires a key to turn it on. Only "authorized" users with the key can use it. I bet that it can even be disabled remotely with electromagnetic pulses just like any other electronic device. Hey, they can stop cars now with these devices. The Etronix does have a logic board in it too. After you are thoroughly desensitized to the Etronix, further advances in "smart gun" technology will be easy to make you accept.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 5:28:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 5:50:16 AM EDT
Third vote for caseless ammo ( only if its reliable, effective, and mass produced).
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 6:32:53 AM EDT
The [b]tomahawk[/b] has long been acknowledged as the finest close-quarter-battle weapon ever made. Designed after about 2 years of chats with folks who live and work in "hostile environments" the WARHAWK is the ultimate evolution of the battle hawk, and is razor-sharp everywhere. And it still splits kindling or an elk pelvis.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 6:33:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 7:13:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill: It seems to me like they are trying to push the HE 20mm grenade launcher as the primary part of the weapon. IMO the KE 5.56mm weapon with it's very short 10 inch barrel is not very usefull. At least that was the barrel lenght that was quoted in a similar web page. They seem to go on about the grenade launcher, wich may be very effective as a stand alone weapon, but not much is said about the rifle. I can't believe that the US military will drop the M16/M4 series weapon for this pile of junk. JMHO
View Quote
The Marine Corps Commandant already said "stuff it, my boyz are NOT carrying this POS". AND it already almost blew a civilians arm of during testing..... Give me a M1a anyday! Bulldog out
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 7:26:10 AM EDT
I read an article about a guy who worked on many arms projects, including the AR15/M16 and this OICW project too. He said that the 20mm grenade doesn't work and that it requires an explosive material something like 100x more powerful than the most powerful explosive now known in order to work.
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 7:55:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 9:47:22 AM EDT
I would like to see the next major advancement be a "pocket pistol" similar to a Kahr MK-series in the 454 Casull caliber!
Link Posted: 8/16/2001 10:08:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tailgate: I would like to see the next major advancement be a "pocket pistol" similar to a Kahr MK-series in the 454 Casull caliber!
View Quote
nah a 20mm vulcan derringer
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 5:23:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 7:53:35 AM EDT
Two Words: Kinetic Weapon Bulldog Out
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:06:07 AM EDT
I think the next advance will not so much be with firearms, but with bullets / projectiles / whatever. And eventually, a laser based weapon. A selective lethal and non-lethal one will beused by police. And YES, civilians will NOT be allowed to own them.
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2001 8:22:17 AM EDT by cnatra]
[url]www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/57ammoinfo.htm[/url] Important information about availability of ALL 5.7 x 28mm weapon systems and ammunition BATF regulations: All components of this system are tightly regulated by BATF. The P90 (NFA, Class III weapon) can only be sold and registered to a law enforcement agency. The Five-seveN pistol is slightly different. The first sale, which requires the pistol to be legally imported into the US, requires the same procedure as the P90. A BATF Form 6 is needed which the chief or the second in command must sign. The pistol can then be removed from the Custom Bonded Warehouse and shipped to the agency. The ammunition is controlled in much the same manner, an approved BATF Form 6 is required then the ammunition can be shipped direct to the agency. The 5.7x28mm weapon system is comprised of three components: the 5.7x28mm ammunition, the P90 Submachine gun, and the Five-seveN handguns. The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm, being a front line type combat ammunition, is far too potent to address close combat situation or urban warfare. The SS190 due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The SS190 virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound cavity and quick incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90 and achieve the same result up to 50 meters with the FsN handgun. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. There are four types of ammunition: the duty SS190 (0.41c/round), the tracer L191 (0.69c), the subsonic Sb193 (0.44c) and the training round T194 (0.29c). The ammunition is available from a CBW stateside (Belgium production) or made by Winchester Olin and stored here at FN Manufacturing. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90 and 2,133fps with the FsN. The weapons system components are the P90 Submachine Gun, the Five-seveN Double Action and the FsN Tactical. P90: Light (6.6lbs w/ 50 rounds of ammunition), compact, easy to fire, both semi and full automatic, reliable and effective. Available in a standard model $1,250.00(suggested LE Price) or with integrated laser $1850.00(suggested LE Price). A complete line of accessories is available such as silencer, sling, rails etc. The weapon can be configured in many variations. Five-seveN Pistol: Light (1.64lbs w/ 20 rounds of ammunition), simple, reliable and highly effective. Available in a Double Action models (about 12.00lbs trigger pull) or Single Action Tactical (about 5.00lbs trigger pull). The FsN DAO sells for $585.00(suggested LE Price) while the Tactical sells for $650.00(suggested LE Price). Available with night sight and modular tactical light and laser, at additional cost. A list of the departments using the 5.7 WS is available upon request. [url]www.fnmfg.com/products/ind-pr.htm[/url] check out the P90 & Five Seven The firearms aren't that revolutionary but the ammo goes through kevlar like a hot knife through butter! even the out of the pistol at 50yrds AND it's LE only , NO civilian sales,kind of scary I think
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:28:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2001 8:43:55 AM EDT by cnatra]
Caseless ammo would be a big leap. I know H&K and another company have worked on this off & on for at least the last decade. It seems like there was a development of a caseless 5.56mm NATO round. Less weight , cheaper to manufacture & no brass to worry about for ejection & extraction. Should allow a higher rate of fire right??
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:40:56 AM EDT
Pulse laser weapon (RAY GUN!)
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 8:49:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: The [b]tomahawk[/b] has long been acknowledged as the finest close-quarter-battle weapon ever made. Designed after about 2 years of chats with folks who live and work in "hostile environments" the WARHAWK is the ultimate evolution of the battle hawk, and is razor-sharp everywhere. And it still splits kindling or an elk pelvis.
View Quote
If it's "razor-sharp [b]everywhere[/b]", how do you hold it? [>:/]
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 10:31:47 AM EDT
Near future: Ceramic/metallic alloys and caseless ammo. These new alloys will finally solve the heat problem. Scientist have already created such cera-metals but they are made at the tedious pace. One molecule at a time and for now are cost prohibitive. Once the price and speed comes down to reasonable levels, it'll be a 'brave new world. Smart projectiles: In current development. Imagine a bullet that can change direction in mid flight or can turn corners and home into its target. Mass Drivers: Unknown until portable power sources are perfected. Rail-guns that can accelerate tiny projectiles over 40,000 miles an hour will be da sh*t. No barrels to wear out, no carbon to clean and no mechanical parts to jam. For example, a three gram chunk of metal traveling at a mere 20,000 miles an hour has the hitting power of a 2 ton safe being dropped from a hundred feet. Laser guns: Also will require a reliable, long lasting and portable power source. Phasers or Disrupters like in Star Trek/Star Wars would be so cool. For now, lasers seem to work best as pain beams or dazzlers. Blinding beams will never be accepted by the Geneva Convention but will probably find their way onto the battle field anyway.
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 12:26:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2001 4:41:43 PM EDT
Railgun sniper rifles. (Erasure, marine core project) ambidextrous bullpup rifles that dont riqure disassembly. (FN2000) ambidextrous bullpup caseless rifles. (HKG11) "blaster rifles" energized packets of compacted gases. (Sorusuub Stormtrooper-1 or Blastech E-11 blaster rifle) battery powered knives that vibrate slightly to help assist in cutting quicker than a normal knife. (Star Wars RPG) "Runaway" like smart bullets that lock onto a targets heat signature using an infared cam/scope. cam/scope transmits data instantly to bullet/missle that follow target. (Gene simmons pistol from the film Runaway) 6x45mm rifle rounds to replace the 5.56mm and 5.45mm intermediate rounds. i want a lightsaber lib and no im not really a Star Wars freak, i dont even own the films.
Top Top