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Posted: 10/12/2004 7:55:28 AM EST
I have a 5 year old prue bred English Setter. The history on this dog is a little complicated, so please bear with me.

Up until about 6 months ago, the dog lived with my mother. While my mom had this dog, she would frequently let the dog roam around in the front yard (while there was someone outside), usually without being tied up. This dog is a very spoiled, very sweet, loving affectionate dog. She is basically harmless, but like all dogs she is very territorial.

Since the dog has been living with me, she is much more disciplined. I NEVER let the dog in the front yard, with or without a leash or teather. She is strictly kept in the back yard. When the dog lived with my mother, she would frequently get out of the back yard, and be found roaming in the front yard. She has never once gotten out of the back yard at my house.

Yesterday, I was at my mom's house with the dog. I had left the dog in the backyard, and I was outside with my mom and sisters. To make a long story short, somehow the dog got out of the back yard and bit some lady on the butt, who was walking past the house. I guess it was more of a nip than a bite, no harm done. I apologized to the lady, and after about 5 minutes I took the dog back to my house.

Now, I am worried about the dog getting out of my yard and bitting someone else. I am thinking that since my mother let the dog roam around in her front yard (we both live in the suburbs NOT the country), that the dog figured the front yard was part of her territory and viewed this lady as an intruder. As I have said before, the dog has never been outside of the backyard of my house except to go for walks or car rides. But, still I don't want to take the chance of the dog getting out and "nipping" anyone else.

The possible solutions that I have thought of are:

1. Lock the gate at my house to prevent the dog from getting out of the back yard - This solution has several draw backs, and may not be totally effective. If the dog managed to push the gate open even a little, she could probably still squeeze through. Besides, there are issues with the lock freezing in the winter preventing me from getting the car in or out of the garage, and rusting, etc.

2. Buy a muzzle - This is a little more practicle, however, the dog has never worn a muzzle before, and I am concerned about how she will deal with it. Can an adult dog adjust to wearing a muzzle? I also do NOT want to prevent her from barking.

3. Teather the dog in the back yard - This is a drawback because I don't want to limit the dog's range withing the back yard. I want her to play, and be able to roam around the entire yard. But, I want to make sure that she cannot get out of the back yard.

I don't want to spend a bunch of money on an "Invisible Fence" solution, and I am not getting rid of the dog. Any other suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:08:23 AM EST
come on, any suggestions, opinions. Please!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:14:56 AM EST
thanks for all the help.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:18:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 8:23:24 AM EST by NYPatriot]
[sgtar15]I suggest you apply 55 grains of copper jacketed lead to the back of her head... that should solve all your problems! Oh wait... I thought you said you had a cat! Please disregard my advice & good luck with your wonderful hound![/sgtar15]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:19:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:20:04 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
[sgtar15]I suggest you apply 55 grains of copper jacketed lead to the back of her head... that should solve all your problems![/sgtar15]



My apologies.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:21:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:26:03 AM EST
He was poking fun at the sgtar15 solution.

Hard decision to make...

MT
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:26:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:28:25 AM EST
Tethering/muzzling the dog would really suck for the dog. Also, with the tether there are concerns about the dog getting tangled and choking/hanging itself.

Why not modify the gate so that you can lock the dog behind it? You don't say what type of gate you have (wood, metal, chain link, wrought iron, etc...) but there is probably some way to protect the latch from freezing during the winter....or you could replace it with one that is less likely to freeze.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:31:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By trippletap:
Why not modify the gate so that you can lock the dog behind it? You don't say what type of gate you have (wood, metal, chain link, wrought iron, etc...) but there is probably some way to protect the latch from freezing during the winter....or you could replace it with one that is less likely to freeze.



It is a chain link with 2 "doors" that meet in the middle of the drive way when they are closed. There is a "flip-up" latch about 2 1/2 feet off of the ground.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:34:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:42:16 AM EST by NYPatriot]
Sorry to step on your post Steve. No offense was intended... I was just making reference to the blatant hypocrisy found in this thread: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=283150

Good luck in solving your problem.

NYP
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:52:06 AM EST
How did the dog get out of the backyard?

What can you do to close up the escape routes? I have a 90 lb Greater Swiss Mountain Dog mix that was getting out of my fence. I went around the perimeter and even though I couldn't find an opening that I thought a dog of that size could fit through, I closed any conceivable opening that there was. Later that day, much to my chagrin, he was wandering around in the front yard. Turns out that he has never really exhibited any sort of predilection towards jumping...until he figured out that he could jump up on this old crappy outdoor PVC table and then hop over the fence. My 3 hours of work, holing up areas he couldn't fit through anyway, could have been alleviated by a 15 second procedure of sliding the table farther away from the fence.

Damn dog.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:53:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:53:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:01:38 AM EST by olyarms]
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Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:54:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:01:27 AM EST by olyarms]
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Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:56:42 AM EST
I'd suggest an alternate solution. Talk to a dog trainer. See if there's something they can help you do. Whatever your solution, do it quickly. If you're careless (at all) and the dog bites someone else, might as well had them the keys to your house/car/bank account.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:04:46 AM EST
A quick way to secure those "flip-up" type latches is with a swivel hook instead of a lock. Just google "swivel hook" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Snap it through the hole in the latch where the lock would go and nothing without opposable thumbs is going to get it open. Works on my escape artist!

Alpine
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:06:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:07:57 AM EST by sgtar15]
Your dog is a biter.


Shoot it before it harms a worth while human.


And no, I am not an animal hater.


SGtar15
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:16:14 AM EST
"What to do about my dog" translates into:

I have a dog that bites other people and I'm hoping someone will give me an easy solution because the responsible solutions are:

a. too expensive
b. might make the dog stop liking me
c. might cause other people to stop liking me
d. I am blind to the fact that a vicious yard dog is not worth keeping alive\
e. I have never seen a small child that has been torn up by a dog (and they are always "sweet" dogs)
f. all of the above

No matter how much time and regardless of what emotions you have tied up in this dog, your feelings of self worth do not begin to move the "Relevant" needle on the Importance Meter of Life if even one sorry, miserable person minding their own business gets bitten because your dog is out. Cage it or 12 gauge it.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:16:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alpine:
A quick way to secure those "flip-up" type latches is with a swivel hook instead of a lock. Just google "swivel hook" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Snap it through the hole in the latch where the lock would go and nothing without opposable thumbs is going to get it open. Works on my escape artist!

Alpine



+1... works with my dogs and my 19 mth old son
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:21:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:

Cage it or 12 gauge it.



I like that!


SGtar15
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:40:22 AM EST
We have 2 German Shepherds and a Golden retriever.

While the Golden is nothing but breathing furniture, the 2 shepherds are not. All 3 dogs are in the house with my wife and 1 year old son and I trust them with everything I hold dear in my life!!

Unfortunately the answer to your problem is not simple.

If the dog had been conditioned to certain things when it was young (ie front yard vs back yard) then those habits will be hard to break. The dog can be retrained, but it's not like it's a 10 minute training job and you're done, it will take alot of time on your part. It took a good couple weeks to teach our shep's the boundaries of our 2 1/2 acre yard, and they are easy to train for boundaries!!

The golden, cannot be trusted to not leave the yard...and he's the oldest, so we trained the Shep's to retrieve the retriever when needed.

So you have a biter, that you can't trust. Which means you have a dog that cannot be outside unless you're watching it. THAT'S IT!!

Train your dog and keep it in your sight when outside till you can trust it. If you can't do these things, you're asking for trouble because the next bite may be a 5 year child, and not on the butt, but a nip in the face. Then you'll have some parents up your ass and the dog will go down.

One person posted enlisting a professional trainer. I second this if your not all that experienced in dog training. Any kennel or vet will have recommendations for good pet behaviour people.

Good Luck!!

Signed

Kurt "Bark Bark Bark..Damn..Timmy fell down the well again lassie" Austin
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:03:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:26:41 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Your dog is a biter.


Shoot it before it harms a worth while human.


And no, I am not an animal hater.


SGtar15



removed
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:04:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Your dog is a biter.


Shoot it before it harms a worth while human.


And no, I am not an animal hater.


SGtar15



I hope you don't consider yourself to be a worth while human.



... and now you see my point Steve.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:05:04 AM EST
Lots of training.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:06:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:07:02 AM EST by sgtar15]
Well, what do you guys suggest to do with an animal that gets out and bites?

Do you really think this dog won't bite again?

If you were walking across the street while armed and you saw this dog come charging at you...what would you do?

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:12:01 AM EST
Try the "invisible fence" - quite humane and effective.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:19:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:24:33 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Well, what do you guys suggest to do with an animal that gets out and bites?

Do you really think this dog won't bite again?

If you were walking across the street while armed and you saw this dog come charging at you...what would you do?

Sgatr15



You honestly believe that a single incident of a dog biting (without bruising, marking or breaking the skin) an intruder in an area that the dog traditionally viewed as it's territory is reason to shoot it?

All I'm asking for is input on my proposed solutions. Is that too difficult? Would you shoot a muzzled dog that was "charging" at you? Would you shoot a teathered dog?

And by the way Mahatma8Rice do you consider teathering a dog, or muzzling a dog as being too concerned that the dog may not like me or that other people may not like me? Or do you just not possess any reading comprehension abilities?

ETA - I am not trying to down play the seriousness of this incident. I really am concerned about not letting this dog get out and bite another person. I am posting here because I am hoping that maybe someone has had to teather or muzzle a dog and knows whether this is a viable solution or not.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:24:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:25:40 AM EST by sgtar15]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Would you shoot a muzzled dog that was "charging" at you? Would you shoot a teathered dog?



Not at all....I wouldn't even shoot most dogs. But this dog WILL bite again.

ANd really...how hard is it to keep a dog inside a fence? If you don't want me to decide what happens to your pet then keep it penned up where it belongs.

That's all I am saying. If you can't do that then put the animal down.

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:09:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By PosterChild:
How did the dog get out of the backyard?

What can you do to close up the escape routes? I have a 90 lb Greater Swiss Mountain Dog mix that was getting out of my fence. I went around the perimeter and even though I couldn't find an opening that I thought a dog of that size could fit through, I closed any conceivable opening that there was. Later that day, much to my chagrin, he was wandering around in the front yard. Turns out that he has never really exhibited any sort of predilection towards jumping...until he figured out that he could jump up on this old crappy outdoor PVC table and then hop over the fence. My 3 hours of work, holing up areas he couldn't fit through anyway, could have been alleviated by a 15 second procedure of sliding the table farther away from the fence.

Damn dog.



It is necessary to be smarter than the dog in order to control it. Heh




It didn't say that in the owner's manual.
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