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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 12/19/2009 10:03:44 AM EDT
I'm looking to start a new family business.  

The plan I gave to the bank made sense.  I had a list of customers for the products and its something they will continue use.  We had half the funds ready and were seeking the other half from the bank(s).  To make a long story short, they said its too risky to loan me money for the venture because of cap and trade and the healthcare bill!

The reason they were having fits is my process gets heat from a wood fired boiler with modern pollution controls.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:05:25 AM EDT
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:07:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens



They told me get a gas fired boiler and they would loan me the money.  The problem is the operation would become unprofitable due to the cost of the natural gas or propane.

They think cap and trap will tax me out of business.  
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:16:43 AM EDT
If you have a bigger post count, the banks will listen.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:18:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens



They told me get a gas fired boiler and they would loan me the money.  The problem is the operation would become unprofitable due to the cost of the natural gas or propane.

They think cap and trap will tax me out of business.  


So get a gas fired boiler then go out of business?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:19:51 AM EDT
I do not see a problem with the bank. They are doing EXACTLY as the administration  wants. They are killing the economy one loan at a time. ALL the recent actions of zero have this goal.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:22:40 AM EDT
Burning wood is carbon neutral
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:28:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


Not to the banks!

Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:36:17 AM EDT
If you burn carbon credits, are you kind of breaking even?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:39:16 AM EDT
Fuck the banks. Find a money guy or ten. Think local business owners,doctors,etc. Ask them for ten minutes of their time. You may be suprised.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:42:12 AM EDT
Tell them you are going gas then get what you want after you get the loan.  They won't check
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:42:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2009 10:45:20 AM EDT by Shootist_Jeff]
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


Read the bill. It specifically addresses wood and pellet stoves. It's not about carbon dioxide(which is NOT a pollutant). It's all about control.

Everyone needs to pull their heads from their posteriors concerning HR 2454. If the Waxman-Markey bill goes through, you better know Mandarin or Hindi if you want a job or a business.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:47:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens



They told me get a gas fired boiler and they would loan me the money.  The problem is the operation would become unprofitable due to the cost of the natural gas or propane.

They think cap and trap will tax me out of business.  


So get a gas fired boiler then go out of business?


If your profit margin is that fragile, you should probably think about starting a different business.

So, what type of business is this?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:50:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2009 10:54:27 AM EDT by Shootist_Jeff]
Originally Posted By Schadenfreuda:
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens



They told me get a gas fired boiler and they would loan me the money.  The problem is the operation would become unprofitable due to the cost of the natural gas or propane.

They think cap and trap will tax me out of business.  


So get a gas fired boiler then go out of business?


If your profit margin is that fragile, you should probably think about starting a different business.

So, what type of business is this?


Most businesses of domestic manufacture will be fragile if HR 2454 passes. Every business will be mandated to purchase large amounts of an artificial commodity that the government at any given time:

-determines price ceilings
-determines price floors
-determines supply
-has complete regulatory control over

Don't bother reading the bill. Be like most Americans and assume Congress would never do something so foolish and everything will always be peachy. Fat and happy syndrome.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:52:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2009 10:53:33 AM EDT by callgood]
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
If you have a bigger post count, the banks will listen.


I'll lend the OP half my count.



One of these gentlemen will call and go over the details.

Too bad about the wood pellet thing. A guy here is starting a pellet production operation soon. IIRC his target is 265 tons a year. Cap & tax may be a bitch for him. And his employees.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:52:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


Read the bill. It specifically addresses wood and pellet stoves. It's not about carbon dioxide(which is NOT a pollutant). It's all about control.

Everyone needs to pull their heads from their posteriors concerning HR 2454. If the Waxman-Markey bill goes through, you better know Mandarin or Hindi if you want a job or a business.


What is this bill?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:53:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
Originally Posted By Shootist_Jeff:
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


Read the bill. It specifically addresses wood and pellet stoves. It's not about carbon dioxide(which is NOT a pollutant). It's all about control.

Everyone needs to pull their heads from their posteriors concerning HR 2454. If the Waxman-Markey bill goes through, you better know Mandarin or Hindi if you want a job or a business.


What is this bill?


HR 2454. Cue face-palm pics.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 10:55:52 AM EDT




Originally Posted By allinone:

I'm looking to start a new family business.



The plan I gave to the bank made sense. I had a list of customers for the products and its something they will continue use. We had half the funds ready and were seeking the other half from the bank(s). To make a long story short, they said its too risky to loan me money for the venture because of cap and trade and the healthcare bill!



The reason they were having fits is my process gets heat from a wood fired boiler with modern pollution controls.




I got turned down for refinance by a bank this week.  The loan officer was helped as much as he could, but ultimately it got turned down.  He said that in certain industries even with a golden loan asking for 50% and showing earnings of 3 times the amount will have trouble getting through.  



Now of course this certain bank had a default on the exact business I am in during the recent past.  So that was a factor in them being cold on the idea.  However, I think you are going to see a lot of coldness in the banking industry at least through the short term.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 11:01:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ACEB36TC:
Fuck the banks. Find a money guy or ten. Think local business owners,doctors,etc. Ask them for ten minutes of their time. You may be suprised.


This
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 11:01:28 AM EDT
How about you tell them that you have a plan to generate carbon credits via reseeding?

The whole thing is a gigantic scam...


I think there's three brain damaged hippies in Boulder that will go out and stomp on some pine cones for a bottle of ripple and a blanket.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 11:11:11 AM EDT
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,


Link Posted: 12/19/2009 11:20:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens



They told me get a gas fired boiler and they would loan me the money.  The problem is the operation would become unprofitable due to the cost of the natural gas or propane.

They think cap and trap will tax me out of business.  


even though trees are a renewable resource and gas isn't and the only "pollution" from wood is CO2 which is used by other trees to grow
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 12:20:14 PM EDT
The cap and trade thing is a very scary thing to US manufacturing.  One of our clients just invested millions of dollars to scrub one of their processes and it may not be enough.  With the economic downturn the funding to cleanup everything is not there as there is low product demand.



At this point, if cap and trade passes and the economy flounders further if they are in business still it will be cheaper to buy Chinese made product, ship it hear, and slap their label on it.  That means US plants go bye-bye.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 12:27:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


Not to the banks!



Set the bank on fire, and sell them offsets?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 12:39:52 PM EDT
Bank loan committees make dumb decisions alot of times anyway.  I know a guy who wanted to refinance his home loan to a cheaper rate.  He had paid his old note on time each month, for the 5 or 6 years since he bought his home.  If he could refinance, he would save $200 a month.  The committee denied it because they said he and his wife did not make enough money to pay $900 a month, even though they have been paying $1100 a month, on time, for the last 5 or 6 years!  There are some dumb motherfuckers making decisions that affect our lives every day.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 1:11:55 PM EDT
a few years ago I applied for a Mickey mouse car loan  at my cu just to have some  current  activity on my credit report. I had plenty of cash on hand and a credit score of 833. The loan officer told me that my credit score was meaningless and I was a risk.  But if I wanted to pay twice the going rate, he would submit it to the loan committee  
At the same time, 5 foot away, one of mexico's finest was completing a loan for 5.5%
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 1:25:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


burning wood is green. if its done in a EPA stove.
i just bought one, and heat my 3K sq foot home with one.
i get 30% tax credit for the value of the stove too.
Ie 30% off of the price i paid for the stove.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 1:36:05 PM EDT
Start small, roll your profits back into it, expand, repeat, buy bank, loan money to who ever you want.

Link Posted: 12/19/2009 1:40:37 PM EDT
How many BTU's would a bank produce?



I bet one of those would burn for a while.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 1:54:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




The thought crossed my mind to do this same thing. Around here pellet stoves sky rocketed in popularity the last couple years. Too bad the bank said no...any possibilty to start a smaller company with the money you already have and then work your way up to where you want to be?
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 2:07:22 PM EDT




Originally Posted By losscolinas:

a few years ago I applied for a Mickey mouse car loan at my cu just to have some current activity on my credit report. I had plenty of cash on hand and a credit score of 833. The loan officer told me that my credit score was meaningless and I was a risk. But if I wanted to pay twice the going rate, he would submit it to the loan committee


At the same time, 5 foot away, one of mexico's finest was completing a loan for 5.5%


Damn, that is a nice credit score.  I am getting close to 800, but yours kicks ass.

Link Posted: 12/19/2009 2:07:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




Get your wife to go to the SBA and request help.  They will gush all over themselves to help you out with a loan, or even grants.

If she is a minority then they will probably hand her buckets of cash, with no expectation of repayment.  

Seriously, you are the wrong gender and possibly the wrong color to get help from the .gov and the banking industry is gun-shy right now.
Link Posted: 12/19/2009 4:16:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




Get your wife to go to the SBA and request help.  They will gush all over themselves to help you out with a loan, or even grants.

If she is a minority then they will probably hand her buckets of cash, with no expectation of repayment.  

Seriously, you are the wrong gender and possibly the wrong color to get help from the .gov and the banking industry is gun-shy right now.



This is truth.  The SBA loves minorities.
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 2:57:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By atcc45:
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




Get your wife to go to the SBA and request help.  They will gush all over themselves to help you out with a loan, or even grants.

If she is a minority then they will probably hand her buckets of cash, with no expectation of repayment.  

Seriously, you are the wrong gender and possibly the wrong color to get help from the .gov and the banking industry is gun-shy right now.



This is truth.  The SBA loves minorities.


Thanks for the idea....

The board of the corporation has had the year end meeting.(Over dinner last night)   I got canned as the president and was demoted to project manager.   My Wife played this coup very well and is now in control.  We will start this game all over again in January.  We need to break ground by march to get into production in time to make product before next winter with enough inventory.

I didn't even get a buyout or severance.  Family can be tough!

Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:06:54 PM EDT
If your business needs money, the banks will not loan it to you. On the other hand if your business is doing fine, is well capitalized and needs no borrowed funds, they will be begging you to take their loans. Just another example of today's bizarro world.
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:07:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:09:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By atcc45:
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




Get your wife to go to the SBA and request help.  They will gush all over themselves to help you out with a loan, or even grants.

If she is a minority then they will probably hand her buckets of cash, with no expectation of repayment.  

Seriously, you are the wrong gender and possibly the wrong color to get help from the .gov and the banking industry is gun-shy right now.



This is truth.  The SBA loves minorities.


Thanks for the idea....

The board of the corporation has had the year end meeting.(Over dinner last night)   I got canned as the president and was demoted to project manager.   My Wife played this coup very well and is now in control.  We will start this game all over again in January.  We need to break ground by march to get into production in time to make product before next winter with enough inventory.

I didn't even get a buyout or severance.  Family can be tough!



But did you get kissed first?
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:15:34 PM EDT




Originally Posted By allinone:

I'm looking to start a new family business.



The plan I gave to the bank made sense. I had a list of customers for the products and its something they will continue use. We had half the funds ready and were seeking the other half from the bank(s). To make a long story short, they said its too risky to loan me money for the venture because of cap and trade and the healthcare bill!



The reason they were having fits is my process gets heat from a wood fired boiler with modern pollution controls.
Start up money is very hard to come by these days.  I'm a loan officer and I will not touch one.   I want to see profitable operations, a positive net worth, experienced management and at least 6 months in business but would prefer 12.  Come to me with a good biz plan after you meet these conditions and we can talk, otherwise you can walk.  I do not want to waste your time or mine.



Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:20:17 PM EDT



Originally Posted By glorifiedG:


But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens


Here in Florida people who made 9 bucks an hour working at Wal-Mart were being given 450,000+ dollar home loans.
I'd say the banks lack wisdom when it comes to loaning money.
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:21:31 PM EDT
Kiss?

The things my boss asked me to do were ........
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:22:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
But but but.... just 2 years ago they would give home loans to illegal aliens


And they still will!

Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:26:38 PM EDT



Originally Posted By ACEB36TC:


Fuck the banks. Find a money guy or ten. Think local business owners,doctors,etc. Ask them for ten minutes of their time. You may be suprised.


This is in fact happening.  Since the banks aren't making loans private people are.  My father who is a land developer (we keep telling him he's retired) is making loans to people.  They're 10-15% loans but they're loans.



 
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:33:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By elcope:
Burning wood is carbon neutral


To hear the hippies tell it burning wood can cause just about everything from Cancer to the Clap.  They just outlawed burn piles up here cause it was wrecking the environment

Link Posted: 12/20/2009 3:38:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By allinone:
Originally Posted By atcc45:
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By allinone:
12 ton per hour wood pellet operation, running 6 days per week with sales to Italy, Germany and US markets. About $3 million to open it up and run it.  The family already owns the land.

Now its just a shell corporation, blue prints and bid spec's for equipment that will never be made.  Also , we were going to sell wood pellet stoves and do local deliveries by bag and bulk.

20 to 25 jobs that will never happen......Merry Christmas,




Get your wife to go to the SBA and request help.  They will gush all over themselves to help you out with a loan, or even grants.

If she is a minority then they will probably hand her buckets of cash, with no expectation of repayment.  

Seriously, you are the wrong gender and possibly the wrong color to get help from the .gov and the banking industry is gun-shy right now.



This is truth.  The SBA loves minorities.


Thanks for the idea....

The board of the corporation has had the year end meeting.(Over dinner last night)   I got canned as the president and was demoted to project manager.   My Wife played this coup very well and is now in control.  We will start this game all over again in January.  We need to break ground by march to get into production in time to make product before next winter with enough inventory.

I didn't even get a buyout or severance.  Family can be tough!


Upside you are banging your boss!!
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