My 16 year old cousin was stopped after she was out of the store at walmart a few days ago.  They made her go around the corner and asked her to empty her pockets.  She didn't steal anything and they let her go.  When she told me about it I got really mad.

If that ever happens to me, I will say "Call the cops and get a F&^%ing search warrent!"  What right does walmart security have to do anything to me?  

Am I way off base here?

No, you are correct.  She should have asked for the cops and gone from there.  Here at Fry's they have a receipt checker at the exit door, they stop people [i]after items are paid for[/i] and check the receipt against what is in the bags.  I never stop and always walk right by, usually without incident.  Well, oncea bitchy lady actrually stood in front of me and blocked my exit, demanding to see my receipt!!  Needless to say I explained that she was not a cop, saw me pay for myt stuff and better get the hell out of my way!!

It got ugly after that.

sgtar15

Ummm, the Constitution only protects you from Government intrusion.

Many States have laws that specifically deal with shop lifters, ie legal action that can be taken against them, detain, sue, etc.

Wal-Mart, (i don't know, i haven't been in one for over 10 years) may have signs that say if you enter their building the reserve the right to search you or your bags. If you enter you agree to that..........

No your not off base.

But I'm not sure that Wal-Mart was out of line, I, and you don't know why Wal-Mart stopped her. They might have had a good reason, or just have been idiots.

People who shop at walmart get what they deserve

BTW, most Wal-Marts I know usually ask the person back inside the store before asking empty of pockets.


I understand security needs, but we dont need to give up our rights because of them.

Sgtar15

I am not saying that they were out of line. It just got me to thinking, how does the constitution hold up at walmart??  Do you waive unlawful S&S when you enter a store?

hey, here's an idea, don't steal anything.
if you have a problem with their policies, don't spend your money there. vote with your dollar.  everyone has the feeling, "not my cousin/daughter/son/sister, they'd NEVER steal anything"  i used to work in retail security and EVERY minor bastard i busted (about 3 a day, (and NEVER did they NOT have anything)with merchandises' parents had the same initial response. "my little angel would never do that"
bullshit.  the store i worked in had 200,000 a year in theft loss.  $200,000.00 !!!!, and that was 10 years ago. take a guess at how much of the cost of products is because of theft?  think what it would be like if the stores didn't take the measures that did.
when you go to a retail store, you are in their house.  you give up the constitution when you walk in the doors.

I was detained at the local Best Buy once.

I was accused of shoplifing and the security gaurd wanted me to empty my jacket pockets. I flat out refused. He asked again. I refused and told him he better call the cops and get a warrent. He refused and asked me to empty my pockets.

I refused. Once again asked him to call the police.

He called the cops at this point, and 2 officers show up. Security officer told them I had a video game and now it was missing. I explained the I had taken the game off the shelf but changed my mind about buying it. I had put it down in the home theater section and told them the exact location.

One of the security gaurds went to check, and came back with the game.

Cops were apoligetic, but the store security gaurd never even said a simple "Sorry". All I got was a "you can go now".

I don't shop at Best Buy anyome.

Av.

Constitution NEEDS to be capitalized.

Crappy,...may I call you Crappy?

I was a manager at Wal-Mart several years back and know alot about the security departments policies.  For a security person or manager to be able to stop a suspected shoplifter the following criteria is suppossed to be followed.

1) They must see the person hide the item (purse,pocket,etc)

2) From that point on the suspect must be in constant eye contact by eather a security person or a manager.

3) The suspect must actually exit the exit the store.

Anytime sight of the suspect is lost they are not allowed to stop the suspect since they can't be 100% positive that the suspect didnt put the item back.  Needless to say, anytime we stopped a suspected shoplift out side the store we [b]knew 100%[/b] that they were guilty and exactly were the item was hidden.

This is a company wide policy and does not vary from store to store.  I suggest you call the store and talk to the manager about this.  Also, if you can, get the manager to have the Regional Security manager call you.  Tell the regional Security Manager what happened and that you feel that stores security personnel need more training.

Just my .02 cents

sgtar15

If I'm not mistaken, in many states certified security officers have full right of arrest on the prememsis of their employer when they are on duty.  This being the case, I think they would need probable cause for a search, but no more or less than the police.  I think.  Maybe there was some behavior seen on a camera that appeared squirelly or something.

This is actually something I've thought quite a bit about after seeing people stopped many times at Walmart only to be let go because they didn't steal anything.

I'm not a tough guy troublemaker sort, I usually try to be polite to people who are only doing their jobs, but if Walmart tries to stop me it will get nasty.  Maybe the constitution doesn't apply to private companies, but what then spells out their rights to detain me?  

If some blue-vest wearing minimum wage cowboy thinks he has been granted some special powers by drawing a Walmart paycheck he has another thing coming.  Shit they have no more right to search me then I do to search them.

The major "wrong", as I see it, was your cousin agreeing to ...go around the corner...she should know better and if she does not, as is apparently the case, you should teach her.  The Bad Guys wear many uniforms.

Yea, I'm with counterstrike.  I just want to know my rights.  Is there any place to look for state retail laws?

I found this for the state of MO but I bet it is pretty much the same all around.  Looks like you have no right against searching.

When stopped and you have done nothing wrong, inform the security person that you have done nothing, if they continue, request a copper, when you have been vindicated request a police report showing that this was a false detainment and take that report to ( I can't believe I am going to say this) an attorney if you want further action. Remember you only have to stay there if they detain or arrest you, otherwise you can walk. If they physically detain you and you haven't done anything wrong, don't resist, your attorney, and you, will appreciate it later. If the security person is as good as he/she should be they will know what the item is and where it is concealed.

When the Walmart security ninja has decided to let you go from his unlawful detention, don't leave. Take out your cell phone, call the cops, and tell them that you want to file charges for "unlawful restraint" (or whatever they call it in your state) against the security guard.

Then, if he was a badged and uniformed dweeb, with a state issued secuity guard license of some sort, file a 42 USC 1982 action against WallyWorld for depriving you of your civil rights while acting under the color of state law.

Both things should get their attention rather quickly, and you might even get a few bucks out of it.

The only response to pointless acts like random security guard stops is to come down on them so hard they'll be afraid to get out of their chairs the next time around.

In NJ a merchant has the right to stop and detain you, search you and you have no legal recourse. But then I am an old gray haired white guy that looks like a cop......LOL
It is tough since too many people steal, it raises all our prices.

This is just a layman's analysis, so take it for what it is worth.

Store security officers have no more right to detain or search you than anyone else.  The only way that they can force you to stay is by effecting a "citizen's arrest", which almost no one in their right mind will want to do.  This is because, unlike police officers who can arrest based on probable cause, a citizen can only arrest for a crime committed in their presence, and there are serious legal consequences if they are wrong.

An example that is frequently used to illustrate the difference is this:  A police officer sees a young man come running around the corner with what looks like a purse in his hand.  He then sees a woman come around the corner chasing the man and shouting, "Stop him!  He just stole my purse!"  The officer grabs the young man and places him under arrest.  It later turns out that the bag in fact belonged to the young man.  The officer cannot be successfully sued or charged with a crime because, even though later he was found to be incorrect, at the time of the arrest he had probable cause to believe that the young man had committed a crime.

A citizen in that same situation, on the other hand, could be subject to criminal charges (assault, false arrest) because he did not witness the crime taking place.

This is why many stores employ off-duty police officers as security, since they can act based on probable cause.

If the security officer does not possess some sort of police powers, you are free to tell him to piss off.  The store, on the other hand is also free to bar you from ever entering again, so you have to ask yourself it it is worth it.

[b]DISCLAIMER:[/b]  I am not a lawyer (I don't even play one on TV.)  Some states may have laws on the books that indemnify store security officers from prosecution.  Your mileage may vary.

It might not be WalMart who is at fault, my wife is a store manager for May Corp., the security staff is an outside firm at her store , they are not company employees. why, because most theft is done by employees. You are correct, that they can not detain you per say and you should call the police , you do not want to make the stores sh#t list, and they all keep one. As a side note, my wifes store arrests about 8-10 employees a month sometimes, it is a big problem, most of it is "free bagging", getting a friend to ring up your sales for free. The best story i heard was when they caught a non-employee swapping the wig off her head for one she liked better on a mannequin.

Around here all they have to do is conceal the merchandise u dont even have to let them walk out of the store. these loss prevention people can ask u to stop and if u dont they may grab ahold of u but they better make dame sure they got the right person and successfully prosecute it or the store is looking at a very big civil lawsuit. its happened around here.

Excellent Point. Valuable lesson for all of us.

You mean I'm not the only one!?! [:D]

I love doing that at SamsClubs & Coscos.
Looking 'em right in the eye, almost dareing them to ask
or looking like a completely aloof fool (Which I am) - I've never been checked....
[i]yet[/i].

IME, getting into either of the POS warehouses without the "secret card" is another matter altogether. [:\]

I just can't get over the fact that someone would think a 16 year old would shoplift! [shock] What would warrant such suspicion? Know why it's good to go to garage sales put on by teenagers in neighborhoods close to yours?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           It's so you can get your stuff back!

There's an 18 year-old employee at the local WallyWorld.
I've always suspected she was stealing from the produce (maybe sporting goods) dept.  
I wonder if......... [:)]

Here in South Carolina, that is shoplifting.  Strom Thurmond's daughter was even arrested for picking-up an item and leaving it somewhere else in a store.  I worked security for Sears (please, no Mall Ninja jokes, I'm not in the mood today) for a couple of Christmas shopping seasons, and the manager loved to hold people for doing just that.  The usual offenders were women in their mid-twenty's to mid-forty's that would leave clothes somewhere besides where they got them.  The manager was upset how much money the store spent in keeping inventory in the correct place on the shelves or racks.  I quit the job after getting sick of having to harass customers.  That's not a great way to keep customers.  The appropriate quote from SC state law, "from one area of a store or other retail mercantile establishment to another area."z

 Hey, we all know that the real SOB was K-mart with Rosie O'Dummie as their spokesperson.  Although I don't put a whole lot of trust in wal-mart's smiley face either.  [peep]

Why do you guys feel the need to fvck with some minimum wage employee just trying to do his job?

About two years ago, I was coming out of a very well known music store. I suspect there had been a lot of music cd's stolen from them since the store had two workers walking the floor.

Unknown to me, I had stepped on one of those self-stick security stickers that had apparently fallen on the floor. As I exited the store, the alarm went off. Needless to say, both "security" employees followed me out and asked me to stop. I did. By the way, they were both about seventeen and weighed about 125 pounds each. Then they asked me to go back to their store, which I refused.

By then a "mall ninja" and his supervisor had come running to the store. So there I was surrounded by four "security" personel. I still refused to go back to the store. The "supervisor" informed me that he had called the police, I told him I was looking forward to it. I continued to walk, no one dared touch me but they were following me REALLY close. I could just tell the mall security supervisor was a cop-wanna be. He had the buzz cut and all. I went to the food court and got a drink, the whole time I had a little circle of idiots following me, yelling stupid things into their radios like: "suspect is in sector 9". Really pathetic.

About 5 minutes later, a police officer shows up. He ask me to make his life easier. he seemed to have dealt with these mall idiots before. I was happy to see a real professional. He asked if I would go back to the store for a quick search. I agreed. When we got back to the store, he asked me to open my coat, which  did. Under the coat I was packing a HK USP 45 on the hip and a S&W .357 revolver on my ankle.

The officer took the pistol from my holster and slid out the mag & the chambered round, the 230grain hollow-point bounced loundly on the counter. All the security guards were a little put back. The head of security looked PISSED! After the LEO did a quick search, and found no stolen items he agreed to allow me to leave.

On my way out I laughed at the inept security. I also told the mall security people that they should get real weapons instead of carrying walkie-talkies and a lot of attitude. Then I told them to F*$% off. They had a look like they could kill me. I took both my pistols back, racked the slide on the HK USP and stuck it back on my holster.

To this day, everytime I see those morons at the mall I laugh openly.

Ok I work security and maybe it is only in IL but if your on the grounds where I work I can stop you and look in your car if I want. Because it is privet property you to can also do this to anyone who is parked on your property.

The county PD use to have us do car searches for them because they could not get a search warrant for the car fast enough. But there is one thing I have to tell you about this and this might help you.

1. They would have to do a report about the search. So in the report they must say why they searched her. If they have no reason it is harassment.

Ask for a report about this. Also sgtar15 is right about what he said.

Mayday

Again I ask, why you feel like you need to fuck with these guys?  If you had not stolen anything why not go back into the store and explain. Do you enjoy being passive agressive?  Do you like fucking with someone just because they can't do anything about it?

Please tell us more i am in suspence.

Why not i had the same wannabe's place a flashlight in my sister's kids face! i told him to back the fuck off. He did. then i had a same wannabe did this to my 6 year old daughter i needless to say i got nose to nose with him.

I don't.
I'd never fvck with some minimum wage employee just trying to do his job. Honest, I really mean that.

It's the ones who don't understand their jobs, start taking themselves too seriously, & start fvcking with customers who look [i]"easily fvckable"[/i] that I don't like much.

To physically keep you from going your merry way they must do the old "citizen's arrest".  If they try to arrest and fail, say they run after you and grab you and are not able to physically stop you, they could be in deep ship unless there are witnesses.  

You are not required to do anything unless arrested.  Then, it's simply wait for the police.

OTOH I have stopped people and questioned them, even searched them.  You just don't want to hassle the wrong guy or gal and be wrong or you will be out a job at the least.

My standard reponse to anyone wanting to check my receipt at the door  is for me to look at the receipt, get the total I have spent and inform them that for $X.XX dollars (the amount on the receipt) they can check what they like.  I have yet to have one take me up on it, but I am damn sure I am not giving something away for free that might be valuable to them...so far it hasn't been that valuable .

I haven't been stopped in WalMart before, but I have been stopped by the Maryland state police though (at gun point). I was taken out of the car bent into a pretzel shape on the hood, handcuffed, then put into the back of his car. While back there I hear him on the radio reporting that he had his "suspect" in custody, giving my description, name and DL number. Then I hear the dispatcher saying that he has the wrong person. Apparently they were looking for a black male in a white Sentra, not a white male in a black Sentra. [>:/] I was just a little pissed off. He did apologize though. Oops.

ANYBODY EVER BEEN HELD UP AT WALLY WORLD BECAUSE THE MORON CASHIER DIDNT REMOVE THE ELECTRONIC TAG FROM THE MERCHANDISE. THAT CRAP IS REALLY AGRAVATING WITH EVERYBODY LOOKIN AT YOU LIKE YOU HAVE STOLE SOMETHING. I TELL YOU WHAT, I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS,BUT IF I CATCH A PUNK SECURITY BOY SEARCHIN MY VEHICLE LIKE TAYOUS1 IS TALKIN ABOUT THE ONLY THING THATS GONNA BEAT HIM TO THE HOSPITAL IS THE HEADLIGHTS ON THE AMBULANCE.[spank]

If WalMart ever "arrested" me I would be as happy as if I had won the lottery. The only way I could get any happier is if they "roughed me up" in the process or maybe if I slipped and fell as they drug me back in the store. [:)]

What right do they have? Call WalMart, speak to their security department and just ask them this same question. They'll talk to you as long as you stay cool.

How nice of him...hey- coulda been worse, you could have been the Eagle Scout who got a round from an M4 in the face at point-blank range from the FBI ninja guy...

Again, like you said, "oops".....





.........................
The American Constitution was not written to protect criminals;
it was written to protect the government from becoming criminals.
-- LENNY BRUCE

Perhaps, since he knew he had not done anything wrong, he just didn't want to be molested, and instead of giving into petty (from the French word 'petit', meaning small, insignificant, trifling) fools who obviously weren't doing their jobs well enough to discern that he hadn't done anything wrong to begin with, he instead attempted to go about his business? We have as a society become so conditioned to random searches, background checks, profiling, magnetic tags, DNA databases, locker searches, etc., that there is precious little real freedom left. We have become so accustomed to systematic handings-over of our civil rights on a daily basis in the name of security or loss prevention or some other dreck, that after a while, what is left to feel free about? Shopping at WalMart?

Freedom means: the right to be left alone. We have forgot that since the 1960s.

If you treat innocent customers like thugs and criminals, don't be surprised when they react accordingly.






....................
Oppression and harassment are a small price to pay to live in the land of
the free.
- --MONTGOMERY BURNS

Back in high school I worked at Best Buy for a while and they always told us that we weren't allowed to touch a thief.  I don't know if this was just their policy, but they said if anyone wanted to steal he could theoretically take what he wanted and run out of the store and no employee was legally allowed to physically stop him.

I live in NC. I have never stopped to have my reciept checked. I also will not stop if the alarm goes off. No one has stopped me yet.

Then again I always go "open-carry" with my 1911.

I did have a security Mgr. stop and ask to see my concealed carry permit and a drivers license.
I asked if he was a cop, he was not. I told him I was not required to show him anything. HE asked me to leave since I was "scaring the customers" (but it hadn't scared them for the last three years). I asked if he was in legal control of the premesis.

He said "Huh?"

I placed my stuff back (about $150 worth of software) and walked to the front.

I asked to see the store Mgr. I was again asked to leave. So I did as required since he was in legal control of the property.

I then called their corprate office and talked with a very nice lady who was the secretary for the President.

Three days later i recieved a $50 gift card and a letter of apology signed by both people involved.

The Security Mgr. was demoted.

This is the way it should be.
I was satisfied with the outcome.

I personally find this interesting because I have an ex-sheriff friend that works security. He was fired from the job because on the way out the door from a Christmas party (Sheriff's)he took an ornanment of the tree. Now where he works they have hi-tec eyeballs so they are usually 99% sure on a suspect. Generally if it's a kid, sometimes he will just go out and stop them on the floor, recover the merchandise, and give them a good talking if first time. For adults he waits until they are out the door so they can't say they were still going to pay for it. Who better to hire to catch a thief, than...............

Wal-Mart actually has every right to conduct a body search of an individual - IF probable cause is present.  The may not search willy-nilly, and the reason for their search must be able to stand in court.  Unlike the police, they do not require a warrant, and they may only effect a "citizen's arrest" for directly witnessed felonious conduct.

You have the same rights in your home or in your shop (if you run one) - with the same restrictions.

In the event of a search, MAKE SURE to have witnesses.  DO NOT go around the corner, and have AT LEAST three people in the room.  Things can "appear" during searches...  If searchee is female, make sure AT LEAST TWO of the people in the room are female to help stave off harrassment.

Again, NEVER go "around the corner" or "into a back room" for a search alone with security, as I am sure you have heard of a "plant..."

FFZ

I work in the sporting goods business and we catch shoplifters all the time. In Utah, if you shoplift, the company can charge a "compensation" to the shoplifter. Usually it's a couple hundred bucks. This goes both ways, if you haven't stolen anything, you can get compensation from the business. I don't know how much, just be sure to get the cops involved, don't go into the back room and have a few witnesses.

You don't have to use a cart if you don't want to, hell you can stuff tuna cans in all your back pockets look like a sure enough cowboy with some scoal in all your pockets, put milk jugs in your shirt look like dolly parton.  You can even put atube off tooth paste up your ass if you want to.  The deal is it is not shop lifting till you try to leave the store with it, untill then its only shopping!  The security can't touch you till you leave the store without paying for it!       But i wouldn't want to check out that tooth-paste!!     bob cole

Beg to differ.  When I find a problem or change my mind about a product, I just give it to the checker and tell them it's a "go-back".  Then it's theirs to deal with or dispose of, like when the meat is already so rotten you can smell it through the wrapper.  Or when the store fails to properly label the price and you have them check it.

Why shouldn't I waste my time taking it back to the place I got it?   Well sometimes because they have changed the layout of the store so much that I've already wasted my time finding it.  

Or maybe because the store people think telling me which possible aisle it MIGHT be one is a very big deal, and to actually help me find it is out of the question.

Just maybe the damn thing shouldn't be on the shelf in the first place, like the "healthy" snack food I found which had been discontinued by the manufacturer a year and a half before and the package itself was 2 years past the expiration date.

Or possibly you've seen the trick where some stores will have a sticker for the sale item, but the product on the shelf above the sticker is not the on-sale item.  If I catch that at the checkstand, no way am I taking it back for them.