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Posted: 4/23/2011 5:10:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 5:20:20 PM EDT
We ran into that for a little while with a certain shift at our ER until an officer removed the cuffs from a suspect and the suspect proceeded to assault two nurses and a doctor.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 6:14:41 PM EDT
They used to say that at UCSD.  We refused and they just put them in a wheel chair and threw a blanket over them.  
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 7:08:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 7:15:39 PM EDT



Originally Posted By uafgrad:



Originally Posted By 1387Delta:

They used to say that at UCSD.  We refused and they just put them in a wheel chair and threw a blanket over them.  




In the lobby I could almost understand them not wanting to scare other people in the facility (still isnt coming out of restraints)

But in a private room with a curtain covering the enterance



I think this lady just couldnt believe how "inhumane" it was for a juvenile to be in restraints (my words, not hers)
They have no idea.  





 
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 7:54:27 PM EDT
Juvenile offenders are the worst.  A little over a year ago, Florida had the bright idea that having juveniles who were in state custody not appear in restraints at court unless they were a threat to others or an escape risk.  The law maker that got the bill passed said that the use of restraints were contributing to the development of a criminal mentality or some such dribble.  Attempted escapes are on the rise and heaven forbid if you have to use force on a juvenile.  

Juveniles offenders mostly have no respect for the system and they only seem to get serious when they are informed that they are being bumped up to adult status due to their score sheet or nature of their latest offense.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 8:27:46 PM EDT
Juveniles are also stupider more impulsive and have poor critical thinking and long term planning skills than grown ups.  Actually theyre worse than trashy women in that regard. They will always be the first to run and will run for almost no reason. I had one jump out a window as a rookie because i didnt think he was an escape risk. It was a VERY valuable learning lesson. Now i dont let my hands off them. I had a partner who had a kid bolt on him twice while in handcuffs.

Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:20:08 PM EDT
I don't have to deal with juveniles, but have dealt with this type of situation many times. I simply ask what they are trying to achieve medically that the restraints are making impossible. I have also had to explain that the restraints are not coming off unless I feel it is safe, and that if they want to deny treatment I will gladly return the inmate to jail. The only time I will remove all restraints is in the MRI/CAT scan room.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 10:36:02 PM EDT
Medical staff and judges around here seem to be the primary folks who ask to have the hardware removed in their presence.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 4:48:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:36:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Medical staff and judges around here seem to be the primary folks who ask to have the hardware removed in their presence.

for the win.
normally we don't get any grief from Dr's. I find that if it's an armed escort and they insist you remove the gear, advise them you can..but there is a very good chance the Dr will be treating gunshot wounds if you do.
 


I have told medical staff that the restraints are there to remind the inmate they are in custody. And that the restraints may well keep the inmate from getting shot.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 5:43:30 AM EDT
I had one defendant at his araignment who was out of cuffs in a small village court where the defendant sits/ stands real close to the judge during proceedings. The Defendant  reached across the bench and punched the judge before I could stop him. Bought himself a new assault charge in the process. I don't think that judge ever asked for another defendant to be out of cuffs the last decade of his judicial career.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 2:57:04 PM EDT
The only time I've removed restraints on an inmate at the hospital was for a ct scan. I've never had any of the Dr's or nurses ask except for that instance. I was told they used to, but something happened and they got the hint.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 5:45:28 PM EDT
I advise doctors and medical staff that the inmate belongs to me, not them.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:22:00 PM EDT
Some medical staff have absolutely no clue. I was in a contrary mood one evening when I responded to the hospital to interview a robbery victim. The victim had already been moved to a room so my partner and I went up to the ward. We checked in at the nurses station and one of the nurses told us, didn't ask us, told us to take our weapons back to the car and lock them in. I'd been at this hospital hundreds of times and knew they had no requirement or request for police to remove their sidearm. As I said I was somewhat contrary that night. I just said no and you won't take it either. I heard a chuckle from my partner and she stood by me and acknowledged my answer. The nurse said she'd have to call security. I laughed at her and said go ahead. She did. I could hear them laugh at her and say, "You said what?" They told her to mind her own business and stay out of our way. It was not one of my more courteous evenings. We all have them.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 7:35:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
Some medical staff have absolutely no clue. I was in a contrary mood one evening when I responded to the hospital to interview a robbery victim. The victim had already been moved to a room so my partner and I went up to the ward. We checked in at the nurses station and one of the nurses told us, didn't ask us, told us to take our weapons back to the car and lock them in. I'd been at this hospital hundreds of times and knew they had no requirement or request for police to remove their sidearm. As I said I was somewhat contrary that night. I just said no and you won't take it either. I heard a chuckle from my partner and she stood by me and acknowledged my answer. The nurse said she'd have to call security. I laughed at her and said go ahead. She did. I could hear them laugh at her and say, "You said what?" They told her to mind her own business and stay out of our way. It was not one of my more courteous evenings. We all have them.


Uniformed on duty officer being asked to remove their gun in a regular hospital to talk to a victim? Yeah shes the most hard core of cop haters for sure. I would have told her to call the head nurse/floor supervisor ASAP to respond and take a written complaint on that nurse, no questions asked.  It would be one thing if it was a psych ward, but a general hospital nurse trying to disarm you is straight bullshit.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 4:19:30 AM EDT
If the injured hand wasnt restrained I dont see why she had a problem in the first place.  Even if she needed the other arm for vitals, you can check blood pressure and heart rate with restraints and a belly chain.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 9:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2011 9:40:35 AM EDT by BiteDog]
The nurses and doctors at the hospitals we use are actually really great.

There is usually at least one that will sneak in and have a concerned look on their face and ask what the suspect did. 95% of the time after we tell them why they are in the shape they are, they reply "Well good. Fuck them."

Nurses bring us juice and stick us in a room with ESPN.

ETA: I'm only ever at the hospital with someone who has a K-9 bite and has done something really bad so I'm sure that helps the nurses opinions of what is going on.
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 6:16:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
Some medical staff have absolutely no clue. I was in a contrary mood one evening when I responded to the hospital to interview a robbery victim. The victim had already been moved to a room so my partner and I went up to the ward. We checked in at the nurses station and one of the nurses told us, didn't ask us, told us to take our weapons back to the car and lock them in. I'd been at this hospital hundreds of times and knew they had no requirement or request for police to remove their sidearm. As I said I was somewhat contrary that night. I just said no and you won't take it either. I heard a chuckle from my partner and she stood by me and acknowledged my answer. The nurse said she'd have to call security. I laughed at her and said go ahead. She did. I could hear them laugh at her and say, "You said what?" They told her to mind her own business and stay out of our way. It was not one of my more courteous evenings. We all have them.


Uniformed on duty officer being asked to remove their gun in a regular hospital to talk to a victim? Yeah shes the most hard core of cop haters for sure. I would have told her to call the head nurse/floor supervisor ASAP to respond and take a written complaint on that nurse, no questions asked.  It would be one thing if it was a psych ward, but a general hospital nurse trying to disarm you is straight bullshit.


+1

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 6:18:31 PM EDT
Both my Mom and Sister are nurses.  They both are "sheeple"  if that makes any sense.  I can understand why nurses in general would want the cuffs/shackles taken off, especially if they're alot like my family.  
Link Posted: 4/27/2011 6:43:38 PM EDT
FWIW, I'm an MRI technologist and former LEO (8yrs). Everyone has to come out of metal cuffs and shackles before they can go into my scan room. The metal can lead to magnetic field and RF induced heating which may burn the patient, or it might get stuck to the magnet and deadline our scanner. At the least, it will severely distort any images I acquire. I tell all the guys handling prisoners that flex cuffs or any improvised restraints are good to go and I explain to the patient/perp that there is only one door in and out of the scan room and they aren't going anywhere. We've never had any problems and most of the prisoners I have scanned were not in any medical situation to run or put up a big fight. As soon as they come out of the room, the cuffs go right back on.

I would agree that many if not most in the medical field are clueless as to how bad it can get with combative patients and unrestrained prisoners.

Link Posted: 4/27/2011 6:44:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2011 6:45:11 PM EDT by Justa_TXguy]
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
The nurses and doctors at the hospitals we use are actually really great.

There is usually at least one that will sneak in and have a concerned look on their face and ask what the suspect did. 95% of the time after we tell them why they are in the shape they are, they reply "Well good. Fuck them."

Nurses bring us juice and stick us in a room with ESPN.

ETA: I'm only ever at the hospital with someone who has a K-9 bite and has done something really bad so I'm sure that helps the nurses opinions of what is going on.


I'm one of those nurses.  I'm grateful that the officers are there and appreciate that they keep the animals under control.  I'll go out of my way to make the officer's life a little better while he's there.  

Big +1 on the nurses "somehow" finding out what Joe Child Rapist is there for, that will change the tune of almost any nurse that has a problem with the hardware.

I had one inmate try to whine to me about his shackles being too tight (they were a little tighter than they should have been IMO but his circulation was intact.)  I told him to take it up with the officer and the officer snickered.  Fuck you, pedo.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 4:51:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 11:23:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Get into the room and the nurse tells me to remove "all that stuff"
I tell her can't do, she then tells me to remove the restraints (cuffs and shackles)
I then say sorry, can't do that, he's in them for a reason

After that she was pure raging bitch to me

She make a good little Sheep.....Good little sheep say "Baaaahhh"
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 11:50:36 AM EDT
We have a policy that if a hospital starts doing the liberal thing we simply stop taking people there and put it on a blacklist for everything.

We had one in the area constantly ask people who were brought in with injuries "tell us what the police did to you"

We never went back, nor did anyone else for any reason....
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 12:37:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sauer800:
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
Originally Posted By EdHaney1:
Some medical staff have absolutely no clue. I was in a contrary mood one evening when I responded to the hospital to interview a robbery victim. The victim had already been moved to a room so my partner and I went up to the ward. We checked in at the nurses station and one of the nurses told us, didn't ask us, told us to take our weapons back to the car and lock them in. I'd been at this hospital hundreds of times and knew they had no requirement or request for police to remove their sidearm. As I said I was somewhat contrary that night. I just said no and you won't take it either. I heard a chuckle from my partner and she stood by me and acknowledged my answer. The nurse said she'd have to call security. I laughed at her and said go ahead. She did. I could hear them laugh at her and say, "You said what?" They told her to mind her own business and stay out of our way. It was not one of my more courteous evenings. We all have them.


Uniformed on duty officer being asked to remove their gun in a regular hospital to talk to a victim? Yeah shes the most hard core of cop haters for sure. I would have told her to call the head nurse/floor supervisor ASAP to respond and take a written complaint on that nurse, no questions asked.  It would be one thing if it was a psych ward, but a general hospital nurse trying to disarm you is straight bullshit.


+1



Id have told her to pound sand.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:17:11 PM EDT
Juvenile = Someones little darlin who can do NO wrong.

Yeah, OK, Uh-huh, sure, whatever.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 6:28:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 6:29:06 PM EDT by EdHaney1]




Originally Posted By hkusp9:



Originally Posted By EdHaney1:

Some medical staff have absolutely no clue. I was in a contrary mood one evening when I responded to the hospital to interview a robbery victim. The victim had already been moved to a room so my partner and I went up to the ward. We checked in at the nurses station and one of the nurses told us, didn't ask us, told us to take our weapons back to the car and lock them in. I'd been at this hospital hundreds of times and knew they had no requirement or request for police to remove their sidearm. As I said I was somewhat contrary that night. I just said no and you won't take it either. I heard a chuckle from my partner and she stood by me and acknowledged my answer. The nurse said she'd have to call security. I laughed at her and said go ahead. She did. I could hear them laugh at her and say, "You said what?" They told her to mind her own business and stay out of our way. It was not one of my more courteous evenings. We all have them.




Uniformed on duty officer being asked to remove their gun in a regular hospital to talk to a victim? Yeah shes the most hard core of cop haters for sure. I would have told her to call the head nurse/floor supervisor ASAP to respond and take a written complaint on that nurse, no questions asked. It would be one thing if it was a psych ward, but a general hospital nurse trying to disarm you is straight bullshit.


Not uniformed but wearing a sport coat.

I fealt it was enough that I laughed at her and made sure she knew she had no say in my being armed.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 2:29:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 2:33:14 AM EDT by snuffy19608]
Took an involuntary commit to a local city hospital one day in the ambulance. As we pulled the litter out, she starts struggling, turns the litter over and tries to get away. This is when I was a new medic and didn't know better, I tackled her and we're wrestling on the ramp. Crisis worker just stands there, asked him to help- '"Oh we're not actually allowed to TOUCH the clients" and he walks away. My partner ran inside to get Security- who was watching all this on camera- one guy walks out, looks down at the 2 of us rolling around and asks "Watchu need man"? Finally another ambulance pulls in, that crew helps us out, we put the nutbag back on the litter and roll her inside.

In the ER I tell the nurse several times that she should put this woman in restraints. Nurse just rolls her eyes, tells me she knows what she's doing, tell me I can just leave. OKAAAAYYYYY.......

I walk out of the room, 3 seconds later there's a bloodcurdling scream, a crash, and the bedside table comes out the door airborne and hits the nurses station 10 feet away. "HELP!!  HELP!!"

I just kept walkin'.....


ETA: And I can state from experience, when someone hits you, it don't matter how young or old they is, it sucks. From the 9 year old that tried to remove my testicles to the 88 year old who brought both hands down on my head, it sucks.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 8:49:34 PM EDT
I've taken many med trips in my time in the agency.  Twice I've had Dr's or Nurses tell me I had to take restraints off.  Usually I try to reason with them and explain why taking such and such restraints off isn't a good idea.  Once, regardless of the test or my reasoning, the Dr told me I had to take them off.  I told him I was taking my inmate and going home and proceded to head back to the institution.  Luckily this was at a time when our admin would back us up.  Never heard a peep from the Capt, even though I know the Dr called back and bitched.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:40:26 PM EDT
Ban juvenile detention...for the children.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 11:15:47 PM EDT
Juvies are the worst. We have a church sponsored "home" in town that takes out of state kids. Big bucks from other states, especially California, to these bipedal time bombs. Every once in awhile we run into an ER nurse or Doc who's tender sensitivities are seriously offended by the sight of cuffs, shackles, and belly chains.

I had a 17 year old kid lying on the gurney in the ER spit in a nurses face. His head bounced remarkably like a well aired basketball off the railing of the gurney. Just sayin'.

The girls like to kick and scratch.

The boys like to spit and head butt.

Results are usually the same.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:20:50 AM EDT
The hospital we use mainly is pretty good about that.

We have 5 units from a state jail to a max prison (where I work)
in the area, and none of the staff there has any love for
crooks, as everything that could happen, pretty much HAS happened
at that hospital at one time of the other, short of staff being killed.

It's a prison town, so I think that changes the mentality a little.

One time we had one get loose from the county lockup.  Some
of the local yutes from the Varsity football team got a glimpse of orange
as he ran through town.  They chased him down and beat the dog snot
out of him.  The cops had to pull them off the offender, who was begging
to be taken back to lockup.  
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