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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 4/29/2015 2:20:33 PM EDT
After watching the recent riots and urban disorderly criminal conduct take place for whatever cause/thug of the week, is there a lesson or lessons to be learned by leadership(or lack thereof), first responders, and the guard?

I'm prepared to take a verbal lashing from GD, but it seems to me like any Governor worth his salt would be on the phone with the Guard Commander asking for a meeting. How has order been restored the last few times? The Guard and State LE shows up in numbers and things calm down because nobody wants to fuck with the guard. Problem is, it takes time to deploy the guard once the decision is made by the mayor/governor(several hours to days), and by then, the worst part is already over(in most cases).

My question: Should the Guard have a "QRF" type unit ready to respond in under an hour in case of riot/terrorism/etc? Maybe something like 100(?) combat ready guys who can be rolling down the road in humvees in 90 minutes or less? I understand that the guard may not be garrisoned in the same town as the disturbance, and in the case of MS, most or our guard "combat" units are at Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg, about 1.5 hours south of Jackson, near the coast, what if there's a problem in Tupelo or Oxford(in the north end of the state, 3-4hrs away)?

I understand that folks have to be called in, gear has to be packed, supplies drawn, weapons issued, load up in vehicles, etc, but in the time it takes to do this, most of the major action has already happened. If they could get guard guys on the streets quicker a lot of the bullshit could be kept to a minimum. On the other hand, I also see where this could be dangerous in a "Martial Law/coup"(not a tinfioler, but a valid point) scenario where it could be used against the law abiding.

Is it a good idea to implement, or a bad one? Should this be left to State Law Enforcement? Do some guard units already have this(like a "Operation Valkyrie")? Or am I another tarded '13er?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:26:19 PM EDT
The guard rolling in an hour is absolutely not going to happen. Guys have to be called up and many of them can live hours away, not to mention some of them might not be reached for nearly a day. You would have to have an activated guard unit on call which is excessively expensive.

Plenty of units could be set up to roll in 48 hours though.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:26:40 PM EDT
IN before "militarization of the police."

It's a good idea, but I doubt it would work too well. I doubt the Obama administration would let that idea go for too long. Eric Holder would probably dick slap any state that tried it.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:28:05 PM EDT
Riots should only be permitted on drill weekends.



Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:36:09 PM EDT
If only the founders had thought of this sort of thing and written into our Constitution something about the militia and the people and arms....

Oh wait.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:41:40 PM EDT
Can't the guard commander issue a preparatory order of some kind? In this situation there was early warning from social media, and the cops had many hours in which to prepare for the expected civil unrest. When the cops were gearing up, local guard units could have issued warning orders as well, telling troops to get their shit squared away for an expected emergency declaration, i.e., arrange for time off work, pack a bag, arrange for babysitters, etc.

Certain vital troops could've been called up right off the bat, like unit armorers, supply techs, etc, to get weapons, ammo, mission specific gear, expendables, etc, ready to be issued. Sure it's money and time wasted if nothing happens, but it'll speed things up a lot if the expected does happen.

This sort of rapid call-up drill ought to be something they practice on a regular basis.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 2:44:53 PM EDT by Bedouin2W]
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:I understand that the guard may not be garrisoned in the same town as the disturbance, and in the case of MS, most or our guard "combat" units are at Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg, about 1.5 hours south of Jackson, near the coast, what if there's a problem in Tupelo or Oxford(in the north end of the state, 3-4hrs away)?

/snip/

Or am I another tarded '13er?
View Quote

You're another retarded 13er because you have no idea what you are talking about.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:46:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 2:47:09 PM EDT by Gyrene84]
edited
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:47:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:48:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
If only the founders had thought of this sort of thing and written into our Constitution something about the militia and the people and arms....

Oh wait.
View Quote

but, but, but, that particular part of the Constitution is only about restricting hunting rifles.........ain't it?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:54:33 PM EDT
Once the Guard is called out Obama is in charge.
Do you really want that?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:55:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
Once the Guard is called out Obama is in charge.
Do you really want that?
View Quote

You're fucking trollin' right?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:58:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 2:59:06 PM EDT by rlltd42]
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

My question: Should the Guard have a "QRF" type unit ready to respond in under an hour in case of riot/terrorism/etc? Maybe something like 100(?) combat ready guys who can be rolling down the road in humvees in 90 minutes or less?
View Quote


82nd ABN is the Army's QRF for anything that to happen right away. I'm sure somebody who knows more about the 82nd than I will chime in.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:59:00 PM EDT
I was mobilized three times for civil disturbance missions. The first was the KKK speech at the Martin Luther King Center on his birthday in 1990. The second was Rodney King riots in '92. The third was for the '96 Olympics after the bombing.

The MLK one was planned in advance so we were mobilized ahead of the ruckus and deployed prior to the speech.

Rodney King was a spur of the moment riot so we were called in. It took me two hours to get to my unit and draw equipment. Once we had enough people to form a platoon, we would load deuce and halfs driven by Air Force drivers (Strange since we were an Infantry unit) and driven to Atlanta. If I remember correctly, all three platoons from our company were deployed within six hours of the first calls going out.

The Olympics were a whole other matter. Extremely dumb use of Guard units and a complete waste of nine days of my life. Well except for the French and Italian synchronized swimming teams laying out topless.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:03:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
Once the Guard is called out Obama is in charge.
Do you really want that?
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:08:57 PM EDT
You mean this:


Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:11:16 PM EDT
Let some piss-ant white supremacy group show up and start threatening to shoot rioters and see how fast some sort of federal troops show up.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:16:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 3:19:58 PM EDT by rickGI]
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
Once the Guard is called out Obama is in charge.
Do you really want that?


I see your one and raise you two. Only time the Guard fall under the control of the President is on Title 10 orders, until that time the State governor is the CINC. Our unit did Gustav in LA, It took us 12 hours to MOB 300 joes and get to Alexandria. Probably would have taken less time if the State USPFO had remembered to pay the Oklahoma Turn pike bill on time. Nothing like a 90 vehicle convoy pulled over by the Oklahoma State Troopers. Oh and never let an Armor Major pick a route to LA.

ETA It took us 12 hours to recall every one, get loaded up and SP for LA. Took better part of two days to drive there.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:18:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
If only the founders had thought of this sort of thing and written into our Constitution something about the militia and the people and arms....

Oh wait.
View Quote


Our PC society is too weak to defend themselves.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:18:59 PM EDT
"People, as a whole, are stupid and selfish fuck-tards."

Lesson over.

A.W.D.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:20:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 3:21:13 PM EDT by marksman121]
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
After watching the recent riots and urban disorderly criminal conduct take place for whatever cause/thug of the week, is there a lesson or lessons to be learned by leadership(or lack thereof), first responders, and the guard?

I'm prepared to take a verbal lashing from GD, but it seems to me like any Governor worth his salt would be on the phone with the Guard Commander asking for a meeting. How has order been restored the last few times? The Guard and State LE shows up in numbers and things calm down because nobody wants to fuck with the guard. Problem is, it takes time to deploy the guard once the decision is made by the mayor/governor(several hours to days), and by then, the worst part is already over(in most cases).

My question: Should the Guard have a "QRF" type unit ready to respond in under an hour in case of riot/terrorism/etc? Maybe something like 100(?) combat ready guys who can be rolling down the road in humvees in 90 minutes or less? I understand that the guard may not be garrisoned in the same town as the disturbance, and in the case of MS, most or our guard "combat" units are at Camp Shelby in Hattiesburg, about 1.5 hours south of Jackson, near the coast, what if there's a problem in Tupelo or Oxford(in the north end of the state, 3-4hrs away)?

I understand that folks have to be called in, gear has to be packed, supplies drawn, weapons issued, load up in vehicles, etc, but in the time it takes to do this, most of the major action has already happened. If they could get guard guys on the streets quicker a lot of the bullshit could be kept to a minimum. On the other hand, I also see where this could be dangerous in a "Martial Law/coup"(not a tinfioler, but a valid point) scenario where it could be used against the law abiding.

Is it a good idea to implement, or a bad one? Should this be left to State Law Enforcement? Do some guard units already have this(like a "Operation Valkyrie")? Or am I another tarded '13er?
View Quote


lol

Not going to happen. The guard is not set up to respond like a VFD.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:20:40 PM EDT
The only way your idea would work is if they had guys that were required to take their gear everywhere they went and would drop everything and meet wherever the issue was immediately after getting the call. This would also require either letting them carry around an M4 everywhere they went (LOL), or having a guy close to the armory meet everyone there with weapons. Assuming the latter, now you have a bunch of unarmed people in POVs moving around in a potential shit storm trying to meet up with each other.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 3:25:39 PM EDT by Smithy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
If only the founders had thought of this sort of thing and written into our Constitution something about the militia and the people and arms....

Oh wait.
View Quote


This. Stop limiting the 2nd amendment and people will be able to defend themseleves and their families when some thug (or replace thug with whatever term doesn't hurt your pansie feelings) with a switchblade throws a trashcan at them because he thinks their privilage is keeping him down.

People start getting shot in the face and they will lose interest real quick.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:24:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 3:25:32 PM EDT by TAP]
It is all about money. Keeping anyone on orders costs a lot of it, and keeping someone on orders is the only way to have them deployed in such short timeframes. Look at the Guard's Civil Support Teams as an example. Very fast response time (required to stay within 1hr of unit when on duty cycle, etc), very good equipment, etc etc- but VERY expensive.

The Guard is very good at coming when called- but that usually means 12-24hrs from the call to boots on the ground. Civilian leaders need to (a) be able to hold the line until then with what they have and (b) be able to make the call at the right time, even if it means spending some money on folks they end up not needing. Rarely does either A or B actually happen, in all the civil disturbances (and natural disasters, for that matter) that I've been involved in.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:30:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By whollyshite:


Our PC society is too weak to defend themselves.
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Originally Posted By whollyshite:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
If only the founders had thought of this sort of thing and written into our Constitution something about the militia and the people and arms....

Oh wait.


Our PC society is too weak to defend themselves.


Added bonus. Darwin FTMFW.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:32:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By marksman121:
lol

Not going to happen. The guard is not set up to respond like a VFD.
View Quote

We can and do....it just depends on the mission and who's willing to pay.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 5:21:12 PM EDT
Don't elect a mayor that will give rioters room to destroy shit.

Don't have a business with an insurance policy saying it won't cover riots if you think your area might possibly have a riot, please note that probably all insurance policies will not cover riots.

I think the taxpayers for that area, can't be many, need to tell the mayor she is on the hook to replace the burning police vehicles.

I somewhat wonder what cvs will do but if they pull out people will call it racist while I will say it is the smart business decision. If they stay I hope their profits cover this loss and future losses.

I can't imagine if people lived above a bunch of these businesses and had shot back in fear of being burned out of their homes.

I don't expect the order to be given to go in and take back ground with deadly force, and at the same time I don't really have an answer other than that.

Guess that is why I live rural and work rural.

I always think of the stories of police departments "finding" a full auto thompson machine gun in the back and I wonder if they had issues with riots in the past.

It would be extremely expensive to have anything on call all the time for a quick response, with many reasons why as others have pointed out.

If the rioters are breaking the law, should they not be dealt with since they are law breakers in the act of breaking the law?

I was in the burbs of cincy when they had their little hissy fit. I was 60 miles out in the country within 6 months. Ever since then I have stayed in low population areas and the rare times I was in a town in a 2nd story apartment I thought long and hard what I would do if someone tried to have a riot and burn out the building I lived in.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:44:44 PM EDT
Bump for the night crew
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:56:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 10:56:53 PM EDT by timthemedic]
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Originally Posted By rlltd42:


82nd ABN is the Army's QRF for anything that to happen right away. I'm sure somebody who knows more about the 82nd than I will chime in.
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Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

My question: Should the Guard have a "QRF" type unit ready to respond in under an hour in case of riot/terrorism/etc? Maybe something like 100(?) combat ready guys who can be rolling down the road in humvees in 90 minutes or less?


82nd ABN is the Army's QRF for anything that to happen right away. I'm sure somebody who knows more about the 82nd than I will chime in.


Lol it ain't no 1.5 hour wheels up timeline. Having that as a goal is downright comedy.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:34:15 PM EDT
Marxism is in our backyard and the Marxists liberals are trying to stage a "soft revolt" via riots.

You have to understand that Karl Marx taught the world is made up of Bourgeoisie (rich) and Proletariats (workers). Bourgeoisie oppress and exploit the proletariats to make themselves richer. Eventually, Marx taught, Bourgeoisie will oppress and exploit the "workers" (lol) to a point that the proletariats revolt and take back the country then instituting Socialism. (Over simplified, I know)

THE LESSON.

Leftist are trying to change the dialogue of Marx's teachings and starting to portray minorities as the Proletariats and whites as the Bourgeoisie. In their dialogue, whites are and forever will be the oppressors until the minorities revolt against them and set-up their version of socialism (while also oppressing whites). You know what follows.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:41:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
The guard rolling in an hour is absolutely not going to happen. Guys have to be called up and many of them can live hours away, not to mention some of them might not be reached for nearly a day. You would have to have an activated guard unit on call which is excessively expensive.

Plenty of units could be set up to roll in 48 hours though.
View Quote



This....


Just call up the 82nd and they can do a combat jump and they can hold the hot zone until whatever unit has the CCMRF mission.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:45:30 PM EDT
What about a QRF of Roof Top Koreans?
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:20:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
Once the Guard is called out Obama is in charge.
Do you really want that?
View Quote

actually, its the state's govenor
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:21:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2015 1:24:05 AM EDT by ftlaudmike]
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Originally Posted By rlltd42:


82nd ABN is the Army's QRF for anything that to happen right away. I'm sure somebody who knows more about the 82nd than I will chime in.
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Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:

My question: Should the Guard have a "QRF" type unit ready to respond in under an hour in case of riot/terrorism/etc? Maybe something like 100(?) combat ready guys who can be rolling down the road in humvees in 90 minutes or less?


82nd ABN is the Army's QRF for anything that to happen right away. I'm sure somebody who knows more about the 82nd than I will chime in.

Active duty units (and reserve units) cannot be called up by the Governor, only guard units may be activated by the Governor
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 7:58:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KalihiJack:



This....


Just call up the 82nd and they can do a combat jump and they can hold the hot zone until whatever unit has the CCMRF mission.

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Originally Posted By KalihiJack:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
The guard rolling in an hour is absolutely not going to happen. Guys have to be called up and many of them can live hours away, not to mention some of them might not be reached for nearly a day. You would have to have an activated guard unit on call which is excessively expensive.

Plenty of units could be set up to roll in 48 hours though.



This....


Just call up the 82nd and they can do a combat jump and they can hold the hot zone until whatever unit has the CCMRF mission.



Lots of DZs in the ghetto. Air land? Still need trans - might be a long goddamn walk in.

Still a long time to get wheels up, much less on scene. By the time you think you might want to air land a rapid deployment unit, most of the city would be smoldering by the time they got there.

I wonder if the commanders intent would be to march to the sound of the guns and kill anyone not dressed like you. I'm guessing no.
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