Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 3/16/2005 11:24:44 AM EST
Let's say a regime change was determined for Venezuela. What would we face?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:25:32 AM EST
Could be done in about 10 minutes.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:28:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Could be done in about 10 minutes.



+1

And that includes the time to order the pizza afterwards.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:29:09 AM EST
Remember operation "Just cause" in Panama? We took out Noriega's military rather quickly, in like 2 days. Venezuela is roughly 4 times the size of Panama, so i would say 3-4 days max.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:32:36 AM EST
It would be a bit trickier than Just Cause, you have both the military and the FARC that Hugo is giving refuge to, but Id say less than a week if it was your typical 18th ABC and SOCOM run op.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:36:21 AM EST
A regime change would have been very easy during the coup against Chavez. However, Bush chose not to act in this way because, I think, Chavez DID have majority support, after all. He might b a demagogue, and is basically using the electoral power of the "great unwashed", but how would it look if we removed a democratically elected...uh, dictator...while we preached democracy worldwide? And, perhaps more importantly, with whom or with what structure would you replace him with that would ensure stability?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:54:43 AM EST
Our night crew could probably do it. Sarge could make a movie.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:55:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 11:56:53 AM EST by PointlessSilly]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Let's say a regime change was determined for Venezuela. What would we face?



They have legions of space aliens ready to defend them

EDIT: the poster above me's answer is better.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:56:29 AM EST
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:58:44 AM EST
I dunno, what are you guys doing this weekend, I think we could handle it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:58:58 AM EST
I believe we import more oil from Venezuela than Saudi Arabia.

Ya wanna see $5.00/per gallon gas wish for a major conflict with them, I'm guessin'.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:03:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By RubberDuck:
A regime change would have been very easy during the coup against Chavez. However, Bush chose not to act in this way because, I think, Chavez DID have majority support, after all. He might b a demagogue, and is basically using the electoral power of the "great unwashed", but how would it look if we removed a democratically elected...uh, dictator...while we preached democracy worldwide? And, perhaps more importantly, with whom or with what structure would you replace him with that would ensure stability?



Actually the majority were against him. There was a vote and it has been determined there was fraud in the election and he lost. Problem was, old Jimmy Carter, he of Iran fame, certified that the election results he and his group counted showed Chavez won and it was accepted. Problem was, as was determined later, the boxes Carter counted were supplied by Chavez and were not true ballot boxes. Carter strikes again. Too bad that rabbit did not get him.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:13:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By WyattEarp:
Remember operation "Just cause" in Panama? We took out Noriega's military rather quickly, in like 2 days. Venezuela is roughly 4 times the size of Panama, so i would say 3-4 days max.



Keep in mind we already had a conciderable military presence in Panama and owned a 10 mile wide strip down the middle of the country in which to prep and stage. Panama was a cake walk due to this.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:15:31 PM EST
Every election has its flaws. For all intents and purposes, and for whatever the reason, the election was accepted worldwide as valid.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:20:02 PM EST
jimmy carter presided over huge inflation...that devalued the savings and pensions of people who did a lifetime of honest work.

It was done on purpose, so that:

1) the democrats could spend their money, stolen through use of the printing press. And,

2) to cause those hardworking, honest people to become indigent and to have to vote democrat, so they could have higher social security benefits and perhaps free medical care.

It was such a 'democrat' plan. Run the printing presses longer and spend the extra money on democrats who did the wrong thing and did not earn a pension and did not save, while devalueing the dollar and thus devalueing the savings and pensions of those who did the right thing and worked a lifetime. It was b. f. skinners carrot-and-stick, punish those who don't do what you want...those who do the right thing. Reward thoes who do what you want...parisite on welfare.

After leaving office, jimmy carter builds homes for those who have not earned a home...after stealing the homes of millions who did work a lifetime to earn a home.

I'm not religious, but, if there is a just God, jimmy carter's soul will burn in hell for all eternity.

"Fax the rich, bleed the poor...until there are no poor no more".
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:41:07 PM EST
Regime change?

Somebody has missed the point.

Threats from Chavez in his attempt to foster a "Bolivarian Revolution" have generally met with little success / interest from South, Central and Carribean countries...well, with the exception of Cuba. That being said, there has been some discontent, both pro- and con- amongst the population of Venezuela, which has the potential to over-flow into other Latin American countries.

Chavez has some following amongst the poor, for which he bills himself a champion of. In other instances, these same people are wondering why he is creating trade agreements with other nations that would come at the expense of the poor.

Though the U.S. receives ~ 25% of our petroleum imports from Venezuela, and a disruption of this would be serious in the short-term, trade aggreements to provide oil for China would be at an economic disadvantage for Venezuela. So, too, with breakages of bi-latteral military exercises of any nature on the part of South American and U.S. joint operations. This doesn't serve Venezuela, and is aimed primarilly as a statement of Chavez that the U.S. is not necessarilly the predominant power in this hemisphere.

Chavez has purchased a large quantity of arms from Russia, which are to be delivered starting in 2005. None of this could be considered as a defense from attack other than as saber-rattling for border-on-border violence within South America. Again, as other South American countries have not entirely bought into the idea of Chavez as the savior of the South American influence in this hemisphere, neither does this support the idea of a military threat to the U.S.

Our interests would primarilly be served most by a politically-based containment of the socialist views of Chavez.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:51:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



+1

Cuck Fanada!
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:51:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:53:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?



Because they bombed the Baldwins.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:53:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?



Because one of them looked at me funny one time.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:55:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?



Because they bombed the Baldwins.[/quote

That would make them heroes to me.
ps I loved that movie.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:08:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Regime change?

Somebody has missed the point.

Threats from Chavez in his attempt to foster a "Bolivarian Revolution" have generally met with little success / interest from South, Central and Carribean countries...well, with the exception of Cuba. That being said, there has been some discontent, both pro- and con- amongst the population of Venezuela, which has the potential to over-flow into other Latin American countries.

Chavez has some following amongst the poor, for which he bills himself a champion of. In other instances, these same people are wondering why he is creating trade agreements with other nations that would come at the expense of the poor.

Though the U.S. receives ~ 25% of our petroleum imports from Venezuela, and a disruption of this would be serious in the short-term, trade aggreements to provide oil for China would be at an economic disadvantage for Venezuela. So, too, with breakages of bi-latteral military exercises of any nature on the part of South American and U.S. joint operations. This doesn't serve Venezuela, and is aimed primarilly as a statement of Chavez that the U.S. is not necessarilly the predominant power in this hemisphere.

Chavez has purchased a large quantity of arms from Russia, which are to be delivered starting in 2005. None of this could be considered as a defense from attack other than as saber-rattling for border-on-border violence within South America. Again, as other South American countries have not entirely bought into the idea of Chavez as the savior of the South American influence in this hemisphere, neither does this support the idea of a military threat to the U.S.

Our interests would primarilly be served most by a politically-based containment of the socialist views of Chavez.




You missed the major point that everyone in the US has missed. Chavez is providing material support to a Narco-Terrorist group that is at the present moment, Holding 3 Americans as POW's, and has been holding them for over 2 years.

Im biased as an ex girlfriend of mine was killed by the Guardia National while protesting good ol Hugo, but the bottom line is he is a threat, and only holds power because we are otherwise engaged with more pressing matters.

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:16:43 PM EST
Having lived in Venezuela for two years, I know a little of how they're outfitted.

While there is a big hoopla about the purchase of arms from Russia, Venezuela's primary supplier of arms and equipment in the past was the USA. Lots of M16's among the troops. Their air force has some F16 jets.

As for troop capabilities...that varies a ton among their armed forces. Most of their National Guardsman are little more than street thugs with guns. Not very professional, and not all that well trained = turkey shoot for our well trained troops.

Their army is much better than their national guardsmen, but still subpar to our forces (of course).

Their airforce has some decent technology, but is not as good as ours, and their pilots are nowhere near as well trained as ours. It'd be another turkey shoot.

Even worse for Venezuela, Chavez has been appointing military leaders based on loyalty, not ability. Most of their military leaders are inept.

The hard part comes not from their armed forces but from the terrain. Depending where you are in Venezuela, you've got swamps, jungle, mountains, and miles upon miles of sprawling cities and slums. Imagine Fallujah times 1000. We would take them, but we'd be dealing with pot-shots the entire time.

I guess it depends on what you want to accomplish. If all you want to do is take out Chavez, all you need is for him to make a public appearance and send in a cruise missile. If you want to give their military a butt-whooping and leave, it's easy as pie. If you're trying to take control of the country, it's a much more difficult task. There's a lot of anti-US sentiment in Venezuela (mostly based on envy and jealousy), and many, especially the poor, would unite against us.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:18:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:

You missed the major point that everyone in the US has missed. Chavez is providing material support to a Narco-Terrorist group that is at the present moment, Holding 3 Americans as POW's, and has been holding them for over 2 years.

Im biased as an ex girlfriend of mine was killed by the Guardia National while protesting good ol Hugo, but the bottom line is he is a threat, and only holds power because we are otherwise engaged with more pressing matters.




Sorry to hear about your friend. I'm familiar with Chavez's tactics of shooting protesters, and then suggesting that somehow the protesters are to blame for inciting violence.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:20:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?



Yet another socialist shithole that needs some comeuppance. The night crew can warm up for Venezuela and free our northern ARFcommers from the clutches of gun grabbers.

wganz
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:39:00 PM EST
Let's take over Cuba and make it into a ginormous playground for the military.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:54:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



'Any particular reason?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:59:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Girlieman:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



'Any particular reason?



How about your pissant "Im taking my ball and going home" attitude over a couple accidental deaths in asscrackistan. If I acted like Canada Id be curled up in a ball crying in the corner over the number of friends who have died both in training accidents and real combat.

Your leaving us High and Dry during the GWOT will not be forgotten. Remember your either with us or against us...............................

Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:03:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2005 3:06:06 PM EST by JohnnyP]

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I believe we import more oil from Venezuela than Saudi Arabia.

Ya wanna see $5.00/per gallon gas wish for a major conflict with them, I'm guessin'.



My company refines Venezuelan oil, which is sour crude and can only be processed by our refinery. We have a long term contract, they pay to update our facility and we'll refine it, $20/barrel. Leave em alone.....

Link Posted: 3/17/2005 10:54:17 AM EST
You missed the major point that everyone in the US has missed. Chavez is providing material support to a Narco-Terrorist group that is at the present moment, Holding 3 Americans as POW's, and has been holding them for over 2 years.

Im biased as an ex girlfriend of mine was killed by the Guardia National while protesting good ol Hugo, but the bottom line is he is a threat, and only holds power because we are otherwise engaged with more pressing matters.


_________________________________________________________________________________

I'm sorry to hear of your girlfriend.

Though Chavez' support for narco-terrorists is true, Chavez is of concern to us primarilly due to his potential to cause regional political instability and conflict. Period.

To believe that Chavez is a threat because of his, his predecessors, and leaders of other South and Central American countries close ties to narcotics and narco-terrorism (especially the Columbian FARC), as well as al-Qa'ida presence and support within this region does not dump this disreputable subject upon the shoulder of one sorry example of typical regional politicians.

Link Posted: 3/18/2005 12:30:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By RubberDuck:
A regime change would have been very easy during the coup against Chavez. However, Bush chose not to act in this way because, I think, Chavez DID have majority support, after all. He might b a demagogue, and is basically using the electoral power of the "great unwashed", but how would it look if we removed a democratically elected...uh, dictator...while we preached democracy worldwide? And, perhaps more importantly, with whom or with what structure would you replace him with that would ensure stability?


Chavez committed massive vote fraud to ensure his victory during his "election". Remember all those things the Democraps were claiming Bush did here in the U.S. with rigging vote machines and the like? Chavez really did do them. Voting machines were programmed to "cap" the number of votes his opponents could get; at least three machines from different districts all recorded identical totals for the opposition -- the odds of that in real life are somewhere around nil.

In fact, no less an authority than Jimmy Carter declared it a resounding success. 'Nuff said.
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 12:34:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/18/2005 12:41:59 AM EST by 71-Hour_Achmed]

Originally Posted By MikeSSS:
I'm not religious, but, if there is a just God, jimmy carter's soul will burn in hell for all eternity.


+1


"Fax the rich, bleed the poor...until there are no poor no more".

It's against federal law to randomly fax people.
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 1:13:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Let's go kick the mother-loving shit out of Canada while we are at it.



Why?



Yet another socialist shithole that needs some comeuppance. The night crew can warm up for Venezuela and free our northern ARFcommers from the clutches of gun grabbers.

wganz


On the way up there, could you stop by and free us?

Thanks in advance,

CW
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 3:25:45 AM EST
My godmother told me the last time she was up here (speaking of Jaime Carter): "If anything is worse than a gringo, it's a 'Gringo Chavista'".

Seriously, the only reason no one has voted from the rooftops yet (I say yet, because its probably inevitable), it's because there is still alot of national pride with the democratic system. There is a strong feeling amongst the opposition that "regime change" needs to happen legally. If is was still down there, I don't know how patient I'd be..
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 6:00:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By llanero:
My godmother told me the last time she was up here (speaking of Jaime Carter): "If anything is worse than a gringo, it's a 'Gringo Chavista'".

Seriously, the only reason no one has voted from the rooftops yet (I say yet, because its probably inevitable), it's because there is still alot of national pride with the democratic system. There is a strong feeling amongst the opposition that "regime change" needs to happen legally. If is was still down there, I don't know how patient I'd be..



Well, lets not forget that there's no Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Venezuela. To legally own and posess a firearm, a Venezuelan usually has to bribe a judge for a permit.

In fact, Chavez even had the Caracas Metro Police force disarmed because he didn't think that they supported him enough.

Today the only people who get away with having guns are either the military, some police, or Chavez-supporting gangs. Remember, one of the first things a tyrant has to do to ensure control is disarm the population.
Top Top