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Posted: 10/24/2013 3:07:32 PM EST
Got back form the movies and there were a few scenes of a rusty ship and was wondering how many useful years is there in a ship before it's sailed into the shore and the ship breakers take it apart? Say a super tanker or a ship used to transport containers. Are the engines overhauled during the life span, or when the engines are ready to retire so is the ship?
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:36:03 PM EST
The US Navy has numerous ships from the 70's and early 80's that are still in service. These include a large number of Los Angeles class submarines. I can't say I know what kind a maintenance they go through, but I would think it is pretty substantial.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:38:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Arndog86:
The US Navy has numerous ships from the 70's and early 80's that are still in service. These include a large number of Los Angeles class submarines. I can't say I know what kind a maintenance they go through, but I would think it is pretty substantial.
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There are still WWII-era warships still in service in foreign navies, and I think even the USCG had some vessels from that time in service until recently. A couple of navies have some even older vessels in service, but a number of these spend a lot of time in fresh water, such as on rivers.

Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:39:43 PM EST
Based upon Deadliest Catch? Forever.

Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:41:08 PM EST
However long it's properly maintained I bet.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:43:07 PM EST
On a commercial vessel, it reaches the end of its service life when the cost to operate/ maintain it exceeds a reasonable percentage of the revenue it generates. On a naval vessel, its when technology or condition dictates.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:44:07 PM EST
I served on one Coast Guard Cutter that was built in 1944 and was sold to another country in 1995. I served on her from 83 to 86. Tough ole ship.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:46:12 PM EST
200+ Years
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:47:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 3:47:47 PM EST by Scufflefluffle]
Well the USS Constitution is still floating...


Edit: I hate you
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:48:20 PM EST
untill it sinks


Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:50:27 PM EST
The ones that the ship-breakers get are obsolete....too small to make money.....
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:52:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:
Well the USS Constitution is still floating...
http://www.neh.gov/files/seminars/education/constitution_sail_-_cover_photo.jpg

Edit: I hate you
View Quote


Well, you can at least take comfort in that your picture doesn't suck.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:53:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 3:59:05 PM EST by LVMIKE]
Also HMS Warrior. Returned to proper condition after spending about 60 years as a fuel barge. Really interesting ship as within 10 years of its construction it went from the most impressive ship in englands navy to a reserve transport. This was in 1875... it was an oil jetty from 1929 to 1979.


Eta wiki dates
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:54:09 PM EST
The S.S. France had an unusually long life. It entered service in 1962 and was finally scrapped in 2006 -- 44 years.

A realistic design life for a passenger ship is about 30 years.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 3:56:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 3Trip:


Well, you can at least take comfort in that your picture doesn't suck.
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Originally Posted By 3Trip:
Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:
Well the USS Constitution is still floating...
http://www.neh.gov/files/seminars/education/constitution_sail_-_cover_photo.jpg

Edit: I hate you


Well, you can at least take comfort in that your picture doesn't suck.

Its why I lost took me forever to find one that wasnt over 2000x2000
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 4:00:51 PM EST
There are ships that carry some gasoline additive that is so corrosive they have a lifespan of only about 7 yrs.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 4:06:57 PM EST
Container ships are run hard. Steam ships can last a long time due to the turbines requiring little maintenance compared to a motor ship. It's the boilers that are the weak point. Motor ships don't normally last as long due to the wear and tear on the engine. I'm talking commercial ships here. The Navy has different requirements.

That said, the hull is what really determines the ship's lifespan. If the plate thickness thins down too much then that usually marks the end of the ship's life.

The last steam container ship came out in 1980. I know of a few that are still running, a couple are over 40 years old.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 4:57:07 PM EST
I worked on a ship that was comssioned in 71. It is showing its age. The piping systems are the most difficult to take care of. Copper nickle piping is super expensive and there is a lot of it on board. When one section going bad you know the nect is going.. Hull plating sections thin and must be cut out and replaced. I personaly replaced about 40 square feet of internal deck plating that had worn through. All aluminum decks will fatigue and crack. I know this is a problem on USCG WHECs perry class frigates and tico cruisers. Valves fail fairly often in salt water systems, an individual valves last a long time but the sheer numbers of valves there is always one that needs replacing and a 4inch melonon bronze scupper valve is in the neighborhood of 3000 dollars.


Reduction gear failure pretty much equals a ship getting scrapped. Engines are overhauled at a set amount of hour. And complete overhauls and updates of the ship are not uncommon.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:01:11 PM EST
Built 1906, and still on the lakes.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:05:57 PM EST
The ship I was on in 2001 got decommissioned that year, it had been built it 1967. I repaired something on a ship last week that was built in the early 80's, will probably be out of service in less than 10 years, several of it's siblings have already been decommissioned in the last 5 years.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:09:28 PM EST
Right up until it sank with all my firearms aboard
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:13:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:

Its why I lost took me forever to find one that wasnt over 2000x2000
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Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:
Originally Posted By 3Trip:
Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:
Well the USS Constitution is still floating...
http://www.neh.gov/files/seminars/education/constitution_sail_-_cover_photo.jpg

Edit: I hate you


Well, you can at least take comfort in that your picture doesn't suck.

Its why I lost took me forever to find one that wasnt over 2000x2000


Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:15:42 PM EST
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.



Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:16:43 PM EST
More end up on the bottom than broken...

Maybe not more but it's close. On average one ship over 300' goes down each week.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:20:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 5:23:50 PM EST by hawaiinate]
it really depends, quality of steel used, how heavily the ship was built, what type of vessel, what run it was doing. it really depends. if a ship remains cost effective and able to pass her inspections than the shipping line will keep running it. hell the exxon valdez was sailing up until last year.


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Originally Posted By NwG:
More end up on the bottom than broken...

Maybe not more but it's close. On average one ship over 300' goes down each week.
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um, not even close, that may have been true 30 year ago but not anymore. ships have gotten safer and regulatory organizations have clamped down hard.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:21:23 PM EST


1914 and the world's oldest cruise ship.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:28:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By America-first:
http://www.ssmaritime.net/Doulos-19aug08-dep-Bne.jpg

1914 and the world's oldest cruise ship.
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damn cool, in fairness though ships as old as this are rarities. the commercial fleet is getting newer and newer, may more newbuilds and way fewer refits.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:41:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AlexanderA:
The S.S. France had an unusually long life. It entered service in 1962 and was finally scrapped in 2006 -- 44 years.

A realistic design life for a passenger ship is about 30 years.
View Quote



If the former France/Norway wasn't run by idiots at Norwegian Cruise Lines 4 crewmen wouldn't be dead from the boiler explosion and it's "repair" by scrapping.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:42:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 5:47:47 PM EST by Luchs]
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Originally Posted By slows2k:



If the former France/Norway wasn't run by idiots at Norwegian Cruise Lines 4 crewmen wouldn't be dead from the boiler explosion and it's "repair" by scrapping.
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Originally Posted By slows2k:
Originally Posted By AlexanderA:
The S.S. France had an unusually long life. It entered service in 1962 and was finally scrapped in 2006 -- 44 years.

A realistic design life for a passenger ship is about 30 years.



If the former France/Norway wasn't run by idiots at Norwegian Cruise Lines 4 crewmen wouldn't be dead from the boiler explosion and it's "repair" by scrapping.


Yep. 900 degree steam is nothing to do "good enough" repair with, which is what they did.

With other ships, the QE2 is still fully operational, her engines turned over one at a time in Dubai. They're apparently selling her to China to be a hotel, though.



She has nice lines.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 5:57:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Luchs:


Yep. 900 degree steam is nothing to do "good enough" repair with, which is what they did.

With other ships, the QE2 is still fully operational, her engines turned over one at a time in Dubai. They're apparently selling her to China to be a hotel, though.

http://cruiselinehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/qe2-dubai-17.jpg

She has nice lines.
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Originally Posted By Luchs:
Originally Posted By slows2k:
Originally Posted By AlexanderA:
The S.S. France had an unusually long life. It entered service in 1962 and was finally scrapped in 2006 -- 44 years.

A realistic design life for a passenger ship is about 30 years.



If the former France/Norway wasn't run by idiots at Norwegian Cruise Lines 4 crewmen wouldn't be dead from the boiler explosion and it's "repair" by scrapping.


Yep. 900 degree steam is nothing to do "good enough" repair with, which is what they did.

With other ships, the QE2 is still fully operational, her engines turned over one at a time in Dubai. They're apparently selling her to China to be a hotel, though.

http://cruiselinehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/qe2-dubai-17.jpg

She has nice lines.



that ship has some history and is nice looking. she also is built tough since she was designed and built to do the translantic run.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:11:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 6:13:25 PM EST by KennyW1983]
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Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.
View Quote



Sadly it will never happen. One day in the near future she will take her last trip on a tugboat's wire and head to Brownsville TX and the scrapyard.

My company has a few tugs that were built in the early 60's and they have a boat or two from the 40's as well. There are lakers that are close to a 100 years old, the fresh water keeps them fairly rust free. Other ships are scrapped simply because the company no longer wants to operate them or there is a surplus of ships of its type operating in the worlds ocean. I read a recent article about some bulk cargo ships that were 10-12 years old and sitting on the beach in Alang India getting cut up. The cargo rates were so low that it was more cost effective to sell them for scrap.

On the flip side their are ships like the SS John W Brown a WWII liberty ship that still goes on sightseeing cruises in Baltimore several times a year.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:17:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 6:22:01 PM EST by hawaiinate]
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Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.
View Quote


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:19:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Scufflefluffle:
Well the USS Constitution is still floating...
http://www.neh.gov/files/seminars/education/constitution_sail_-_cover_photo.jpg

Edit: I hate you
View Quote


Came here to post this...
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:32:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By APBullet:
how many useful years is there in a ship before it's sailed into the shore and the ship breakers take it apart
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Too fucking many.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:36:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 6:36:59 PM EST by Tomislav]
Run 'em onto that crazy beach in India:
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:38:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hawaiinate:


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.
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Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.


What ship is that?
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:49:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 6:51:21 PM EST by hawaiinate]
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


What ship is that?
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.


What ship is that?


SS United States, they've been trying for years to get someone or some organization to take her and restore her, but she's quickly approaching the point of no return.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:52:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GOBLIN1:
The ones that the ship-breakers get are obsolete....too small to make money.....
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That's the key. The useful life depends on its purpose and the development of new technology that justifies the investment. Sure, the new one is better. But, it's a $100,000,000.00 investment. It has to justify the expense.

If you mean just naval vessels, our guys are pretty good at keeping them operating. I know some folks will offer some horror stories, but compare our navy to some other ones. Anyone want to serve on a Russian sub? We're also pretty good at adapting new technology to older ships.

Part of it is politics. International treaties on naval strength affect the fleet as well as politicians who want a shipyard in "my" district. The officers who chose the ships and the missions they fulfill have politics, too.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:55:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hawaiinate:


SS United States, they've been trying for years to get someone or some organization to take her and restore her, but she's quickly approaching the point of no return.
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Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.


What ship is that?


SS United States, they've been trying for years to get someone or some organization to take her and restore her, but she's quickly approaching the point of no return.


No she is aging well. Her hull is still 90%+ she needs a new interior and a good blasting and fresh paint. What kills her is her engine plant. She had the turbines that were meant for an aircraft carrier in her and they suck a lot of bunker-c. She would need a new low speed diesel power plant to be anywhere near cost effective.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:55:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 7:22:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:


No she is aging well. Her hull is still 90%+ she needs a new interior and a good blasting and fresh paint. What kills her is her engine plant. She had the turbines that were meant for an aircraft carrier in her and they suck a lot of bunker-c. She would need a new low speed diesel power plant to be anywhere near cost effective.
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.


around 38 full bore, still damn fast for a ship that size, even by todays standards.


What ship is that?


SS United States, they've been trying for years to get someone or some organization to take her and restore her, but she's quickly approaching the point of no return.


No she is aging well. Her hull is still 90%+ she needs a new interior and a good blasting and fresh paint. What kills her is her engine plant. She had the turbines that were meant for an aircraft carrier in her and they suck a lot of bunker-c. She would need a new low speed diesel power plant to be anywhere near cost effective.


modern diesel electric plants are also damned efficient.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 7:32:33 PM EST
You can maintain a boat ship and keep it in service forever.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 7:38:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 7:41:07 PM EST by gomulego]
That's like asking how may licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll lollipop?

And even if the wise old owl has an answer, you know it is different for for each and every one.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 7:41:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 7:44:20 PM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 7:56:27 PM EST

The Calypso was commissioned as a mine sweeper in 1942. Cousteau refitted her in 1951.
The restoration began in 2007 to repair the damage from her sinking. The day she sank made me very sad as did the day we lost Cousteau.
I hope the Calypso has many more adventures. She is one ship that should never be given over to scrappers.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 8:08:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AeroE:
I toured a Liberty ship converted to an oiler at Norfolk around 1977. That was the only ship open that day.

It was interesting, but I was glad I wasn't part of the crew in those cramped quarters.


A photo of the James River Fleet, a couple of years old:

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=18363

I always enjoyed flying around the ships out there when I was at Langley.

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Its a lot smaller today. They have been towing ships out of there at about 1 every 2-3 months. One of my company's tugs left Wednesday with the ex-USS Vanguard in tow, bound for the scrapyard in Brownsville TX. I also read an article that says the USS Forrestal was sold to one of the Brownsville breakers for $.01. It will be the biggest ship ever scrapped int he US thus far. I wonder who will tow it down there as its a 950-1000ft ship. It will take some power to get it down there. Its up in Philly now.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 8:13:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 8:17:51 PM EST by hawaiinate]
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:



Its a lot smaller today. They have been towing ships out of there at about 1 every 2-3 months. One of my company's tugs left Wednesday with the ex-USS Vanguard in tow, bound for the scrapyard in Brownsville TX. I also read an article that says the USS Forrestal was sold to one of the Brownsville breakers for $.01. It will be the biggest ship ever scrapped int he US thus far. I wonder who will tow it down there as its a 950-1000ft ship. It will take some power to get it down there. Its up in Philly now.
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
I toured a Liberty ship converted to an oiler at Norfolk around 1977. That was the only ship open that day.

It was interesting, but I was glad I wasn't part of the crew in those cramped quarters.


A photo of the James River Fleet, a couple of years old:

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=18363

I always enjoyed flying around the ships out there when I was at Langley.




Its a lot smaller today. They have been towing ships out of there at about 1 every 2-3 months. One of my company's tugs left Wednesday with the ex-USS Vanguard in tow, bound for the scrapyard in Brownsville TX. I also read an article that says the USS Forrestal was sold to one of the Brownsville breakers for $.01. It will be the biggest ship ever scrapped int he US thus far. I wonder who will tow it down there as its a 950-1000ft ship. It will take some power to get it down there. Its up in Philly now.


my guess would be either they'll use one of the MSC salvage tugs or if they contract it out they'll use a big AHT type tug from the gulf, hornbeck, chouest or tidewater if I had to guess. 2-3 of those things can easily tow an oil rig around. 1 would have no problem towing a ship forrestal's size. I wonder when they're gonna start cleaning ships out of the mothball fleet in pearl harbor.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 10:08:29 PM EST
This is a depressing thread for an old sailor man...
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 10:35:03 PM EST
Depends on the ship and the environment it is subjected to.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 10:39:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hawaiinate:


my guess would be either they'll use one of the MSC salvage tugs or if they contract it out they'll use a big AHT type tug from the gulf, hornbeck, chouest or tidewater if I had to guess. 2-3 of those things can easily tow an oil rig around. 1 would have no problem towing a ship forrestal's size. I wonder when they're gonna start cleaning ships out of the mothball fleet in pearl harbor.
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Thats possible but im thinking it will be a Crowley tug. The AHTS in the GOM are usually all on long term contract. My company will surely put in a bid but they dont have a boat with enough ass to tow something that big.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 11:57:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Luchs:
This grand lady is still waiting to be restored.

http://www.stevenujifusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/P2140024.jpg

Still looks proud. And could manage over 40 knots, probably close to 50 at flank speed.
View Quote


Is that in Philly??
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