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Posted: 5/31/2008 4:09:23 PM EST
Every time this topic comes up it turns into a retarded shouting match between the proponents of either the AR or the AK, so I've decided to leave them out. I've seen a few people that don't consider either one to be the best also, and would like to know which rifle they prefer.

I don't think I'm going to make a poll because I know there are a lot of choices and people will get butt hurt over their choice not being included (I am guilty of this too ).

Anyways, excluding both AR and AK derivatives, what do you consider is the best rifle for all various types of warfare in all types of conditions.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:10:05 PM EST
FAL
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:10:42 PM EST
FN FAL. Metric, full-auto.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:10:47 PM EST
M-14
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:11:45 PM EST
Garand of course
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:11:52 PM EST
Uh-oh.

I guess I've turned this into a flame war with the M14 vs. the FAL.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:12:10 PM EST
Plasma rifle in the 40 Megawatt range.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:12:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Uh-oh.

I guess I've turned this into a flame war with the M14 vs. the FAL.


Not really. One was adopted by over 70 countries. The other wasn't.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:13:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Uh-oh.

I guess I've turned this into a flame war with the M14 vs. the FAL.


Not really. One was adopted by over 70 countries. The other wasn't.


And here we go.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:13:08 PM EST
FAL
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:14:28 PM EST
What makes the FAL better than the M-14 or vice versa?
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:15:10 PM EST
They don't call it the right arm of the free world for nothing.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:15:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2008 4:16:17 PM EST by Black-Tiger]
FAL. Is way too obvious.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:16:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2008 4:17:54 PM EST by AngeredKabar]

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
The G3. Just because I don't drink the FAL-flavored Kool-Aid.


Hrm. Pretty sure this falls into the derivative of the Kalashnikov design... No points for you


Lol wut? I could have sworn you had a picture of a Galil, and now it appears that you've changed your opinion AGAIN!!!
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:18:41 PM EST
Garand hands down
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:19:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2008 4:19:32 PM EST by swede1986]

The G3 is the best.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:21:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By UH_SALT_RIFLE:
They don't call it the right arm of the free world for nothing.



Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:22:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
What makes the FAL better than the M-14 or vice versa?


FN FAL

M-14

The FAL is lighter, has better ergonomics (if you like pistol-grips better; if you really prefer traditional grips, then the M-14 has the advantage), has a lot more accessories, is much easier to clean, repair, and maintain, and was adopted by over 70 nations.

The M-14 has about equal reliability (though it's slightly pickier about ammo) and can, if you get the right make and model, exceed the FAL in accuracy. Both use 20-rnd magazines, and the FAL also has 30-rnd magazines available and can be set up as a light machine gun rather than a battle rifle or designated marksman's rifle.

The M-14 was abandoned as a service weapon in the 1960's and has only recently been dragged out of mothballs as a semi-auto sniper/designated marksman rifle, where it kicks ass. The FAL is still in service with a number of militaries, and is more popular with US police departments than the M-14/M-1A because of its ergonomics and features.

The M-14 was only adopted by the US, and they picked it over the FAL because it would be cheaper to produce domestically since it used a lot of the same parts as the M1 Garand and could be built on already existing machinery. The FAL, on the other hand, is known as the Right Hand of the Free World and is the only western military rifle to rival the AK-47 in numbers and popularity, though the M-16 series comes close.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:22:28 PM EST
How about the FNC? AR-18(0)?
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:22:31 PM EST
There is no best. There are plenty of pro and cons for each rifle.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:26:02 PM EST
K98
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:29:52 PM EST
Winchester 1885 in .45-70?
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:30:49 PM EST
FAL. If you don`t have one (or more) you won`t ever understand.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:32:54 PM EST
"The FAL is still in service with a number of militaries, and is more popular with US police departments than the M-14/M-1A because of its ergonomics and features."

Huh?

I was under the impression that until recently there were alot of LE departments that had real M14s on loan from the govt. and were only recalled like M14s from state rifle associations for use in the GWOT.

I had no idea that there were US police depts. that used FAL's
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:33:53 PM EST
FAL
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:34:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
M-14


Yup
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:36:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
"The FAL is still in service with a number of militaries, and is more popular with US police departments than the M-14/M-1A because of its ergonomics and features."

Huh?

I was under the impression that until recently there were alot of LE departments that had real M14s on loan from the govt. and were only recalled like M14s from state rifle associations for use in the GWOT.

I had no idea that there were US police depts. that used FAL's


I have seen a few FALs in some SWAT photos, but I don't know if they are very main stream though.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:39:09 PM EST
Galil, best of FAL and AK, preferably in 6.8 or similar, but 7.62x39 would be fine, too.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:39:30 PM EST
Anything 7.62x51 is OUT as an option. The system is just too heavy for the modern battlefield. But if you just can't stand not fantasizing about the 1950s then please continue.

So I say XCR or SCAR. Yeah, they're unproven compared to most of the 5.56 guns out there, but they're both great designs.

Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:41:39 PM EST
HK G3.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:44:44 PM EST
G36
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:45:00 PM EST
Enough already.

This one:


Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:47:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
G36


Plastic meltfest with oversize and clumsy magazines. Looks cool on capital hill police and video games but not a tough rifle.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:47:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By frogwater:
Enough already.

This one:
www.varmintjihad.com/pics/FAL-14.jpg



OK, I can see how that would be pure win.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:52:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By frogwater:
Enough already.

This one:
www.varmintjihad.com/pics/FAL-14.jpg



LOL!
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:54:07 PM EST
Mas 49/56
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 4:59:09 PM EST
If it's fast moving Close Quarters fighting, then I choose the AUG. If you shoot an AUG offhand, you will realize that you can make faster follow-up shots and more accurate shots in this position than you can with an AR-15. The AUG offhand is comparable to shooting an AR-15 in a kneeling position. The benefit diminishes when you move to a kneeling or prone position. When in a kneeling position, you it is difficult to hold the forward vertical grip, so it's better in the folded position. Folding the vertical grip isn't a very smooth transition. The AUG is pretty bad in the prone position, where a traditional forearm and sling gives better support. Also, mag changes from prone are poor.

But, since most infantry fighting now-a-days is done close up. I think the AUG works quite well.

I was able to shoot an AUG offhand at 75yds at a steel head swinger target and bounce it back and forth at 1second intervals. When trying the same thing with my AR-15, it took me about 5 times as long and I would occasionally hit the hostage part of the target. Going to the kneeling position, put it on equal ground with the AUG.

Here's the target type I'm talking about.

Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:00:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
M-14


+1
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:01:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Uh-oh.

I guess I've turned this into a flame war with the M14 vs. the FAL.


Not really. One was adopted by over 70 countries. The other wasn't.


So, based on your logic I am correct when I say the BHP is better than the 1911

Medium bore---m1 garand or bm59(or the galil/valmet but they are ak based so I won't)

Small bore FNC
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:03:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
I was able to shoot an AUG offhand at 75yds at a steel head swinger target and bounce it back and forth at 1second intervals. When trying the same thing with my AR-15, it took me about 5 times as long and I would occasionally hit the hostage part of the target. Going to the kneeling position, put it on equal ground with the AUG.

Here's the target type I'm talking about.

www.mgmtargets.com/images/products/ipsc_hostage_front.gif


So it took you 5 seconds per shot with the AR? Ok. The best AR shooters would be hitting that steel three times per second.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:03:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:

Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
"The FAL is still in service with a number of militaries, and is more popular with US police departments than the M-14/M-1A because of its ergonomics and features."

Huh?

I was under the impression that until recently there were alot of LE departments that had real M14s on loan from the govt. and were only recalled like M14s from state rifle associations for use in the GWOT.

I had no idea that there were US police depts. that used FAL's


I have seen a few FALs in some SWAT photos, but I don't know if they are very main stream though.


DSA makes full-auto SBR FAL variants exclusively for law enforcement use. I've seen a few news photos of them in use with SWAT teams.

I've also seen regular FAL's (both semi and full-auto) in use with the police.

Anyone who says .308 rifles are obsolete for modern warfare has obviously never turned cover into concealment.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:04:22 PM EST
FN FAL hands down. m14 2nd...I would say Galil, but it's an AK clone. In a few years maybe some of the new wonder rifles may see widespread adoption...who knows, and then we'll be talking about how good they are.

Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:05:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2008 5:07:13 PM EST by SplatSTi]

Originally Posted By frogwater:
Enough already.

This one:




Ok I want one! without wood, in black thx!

FAL for the thread topic.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:07:41 PM EST
I'm thinking the SCAR or MASADA/ACR may well prive to be it.

If not, the 416 looks promising.

-K
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:08:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:

Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
"The FAL is still in service with a number of militaries, and is more popular with US police departments than the M-14/M-1A because of its ergonomics and features."

Huh?

I was under the impression that until recently there were alot of LE departments that had real M14s on loan from the govt. and were only recalled like M14s from state rifle associations for use in the GWOT.

I had no idea that there were US police depts. that used FAL's


I have seen a few FALs in some SWAT photos, but I don't know if they are very main stream though.


DSA makes full-auto SBR FAL variants exclusively for law enforcement use. I've seen a few news photos of them in use with SWAT teams.

I've also seen regular FAL's (both semi and full-auto) in use with the police.

Anyone who says .308 rifles are obsolete for modern warfare has obviously never turned cover into concealment.


I have, and say they're obsolete. Its the best INFANTRY rifle. Infantry have heavy weapons to use when they need to shoot through stuff.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:33:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By SplatSTi:

Originally Posted By frogwater:
Enough already.

This one:
www.varmintjihad.com/pics/FAL-14.jpg



Ok I want one! without wood, in black thx!

FAL for the thread topic.


As you wish.
Dang, I think I want one now!

Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:35:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I'm thinking the SCAR or MASADA/ACR may well prive to be it.

If not, the 416 looks promising.

-K


416 is to the AR like the Galil is to the AK.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:41:19 PM EST
The brown bess rifle - it was usedand copied for about 100 plus years.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:41:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2008 5:47:48 PM EST by Fireguy3]
It's neither the AR-15/M-16 or the AKM/AKS 47 "CARBINES" silly............

EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S THE M-14/M1A!!!!

Before i have to don nomex, please realize i have two AR's and two AK's, but they do not hold a candle to the shear DRT power of the .308!!

Also to asnwer the question about FAL vs. M-14 those apples and oranges have already been squeezed out and CONARC felt they were equals overall.

BTW, How do you top off an FAL Magazine between firings? oh thats right take it off the gun and play around finger loading it to top it off one round at a time.

My M1A i just pull back and lock the bolt and shove the stripper down the slot and viola instant loadup!!!
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:45:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:46:25 PM EST
sa80


J/k fal FTW



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