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Posted: 6/14/2009 12:00:57 AM EST
So...what is more important...would you rather ban abortion or have unrestricted 2nd amendment rights?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:01:21 AM EST
2nd amendment is way more important
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:01:50 AM EST
Sorry to a lot of you guys, but 2a.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:02:09 AM EST
This thread will not end well.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:02:52 AM EST
2nd.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:03:06 AM EST
AGNTSA
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:03:18 AM EST
I'm trying to figure out why it would ever come down to either / or.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:06:02 AM EST
2A so the abortion docs can defend themselves.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:08:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By MagazineFed:
2nd amendment is way more important


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:10:27 AM EST
Second Amendment. If it's ever outright banned, as far as making it completely illegal for citizens to own firearms, it sets the precedent for an amazingly wide-open ability to abuse and reshape the Constitution as the administration sees fit - much like the initial demand that GM's CEO step down cascaded into what the current situation today is.

Abortion will always come down to a moral debate. The Second Amendment isn't a moral debate, its a debate as to whether modern politicians should be able to hack pieces off the founding writ the country was based on to suit their needs.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:11:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 12:12:59 AM EST by Out_To_Sea]
unrestricted 2A

eta: where's the poll
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:18:01 AM EST
"You keep your hands off my guns, and I'll keep my hands off your vagina".
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:26:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 12:29:29 AM EST by Ripak]
I know I'll get flamed and maybe even have replies that might get this thread locked.

Its not really a difficult choice for me.
2nd amendment rights trumps everything.
Here's the kicker. I'd never want to ban abortions. I'm pro choice on this.
~R
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:31:17 AM EST
2nd amendment. I don't care what someone does with their personal life. I don't agree with abortion, but I don't want to force someone to believe what I believe.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:32:38 AM EST
They are totally two different things. The right to defend your life is one thing. The right to take a life is another.
With that said, the 2nd Amendment protects all other rights. Without it.............
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:37:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Out_To_Sea:
unrestricted 2A

eta: where's the poll

No poll...this requires written answers.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:38:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:38:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sleepy1988:
"You keep your hands off my guns, and I'll keep my hands off your vagina".


I like! Liverarian SMALL government. power to the people.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:41:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Ripak:
I know I'll get flamed and maybe even have replies that might get this thread locked.

Its not really a difficult choice for me.
2nd amendment rights trumps everything.
Here's the kicker. I'd never want to ban abortions. I'm pro choice on this.
~R

Most of the polls here show the pro/con on abortion is about the same as the national statisics and only a small percentage want to completely ban it.




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Thank You. I did not know this.
My first line was more of a deterrent to stop them that might.

~R

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:47:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 12:48:09 AM EST by tyman]
Originally Posted By Ripak:
I know I'll get flamed and maybe even have replies that might get this thread locked.

Its not really a difficult choice for me.
2nd amendment rights trumps everything.
Here's the kicker. I'd never want to ban abortions. I'm pro choice on this.
~R


Naw, you're good, Rip.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:47:30 AM EST
Just an FYI...my personal view is that the 2nd Amendment trumps all other rights. It is the right from which all others flow because it is the only method of absolute enforcement that the citizenry has. Besides...I'm pro-choice for all the wrong reasons.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:03:57 AM EST
You people have no business having contempt for Nazis.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:07:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 1:09:06 AM EST by Hebrew_Battle_Rifle]
Originally Posted By brucers99:
Just an FYI...my personal view is that the 2nd Amendment trumps all other rights. It is the right from which all others flow because it is the only method of absolute enforcement that the citizenry has. Besides...I'm pro-choice for all the wrong reasons.


You are truly ignorant of what rights are and the source of them. How can one right trump another? If your rights "flow" from the 2nd Amendment, then explain the meaning of the 9th amendment. Explain how the Founders could refer to unalienable rights 15 years before the 2nd even existed. You haven't a freakin' clue what you are talking about.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:10:51 AM EST
In on one. Like someone else said this will end bad, and probably with a lock for personal attacks and other shenanigans.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:15:06 AM EST
the second amendment.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:18:40 AM EST
Were be the fucking pole?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:23:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ripak:
I know I'll get flamed and maybe even have replies that might get this thread locked.

Its not really a difficult choice for me.
2nd amendment rights trumps everything.
Here's the kicker. I'd never want to ban abortions. I'm pro choice on this.
~R


Okay. Here goes nothing..

+1

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:28:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hebrew_Battle_Rifle:
You people have no business having contempt for Nazis.


The nazis terrorized and murdered millions of innocent people.

Abortion doesn't kill anyone, and certainly doesn't terrorize.

Now, the clinic bombers, doctor assassins, and general threat of absolute state tyranny over the lives of all women on the other hand does have a certain whiff of horror about it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:28:42 AM EST
I believe the right to life is fundamental and underpins all others. The 2A is rooted in our right to self defense which itself derives from our right to life –– if I have no right to life, I have no right to defend it, and I have no right to possess effective means of doing so. One has to be born in order to be able to exercise the 2A –– or any other right.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:29:48 AM EST
Gee, it's so hard to predict how this will go on a board name ar15.com
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:30:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By AKFF:
I'm trying to figure out why it would ever come down to either / or.



That's pretty much it.....is it a trade or something?

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:32:57 AM EST
2A... DAH!

If the unborn children had guns that wouldn't be an issue either.

PS. I am pro choice (first term only!) because if you want to burn in hell for all eternity, well that your own business! I'm pro choice and I choose SPERMICIDE AND RUBBERS!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:39:36 AM EST
2nd a rights... im against abortion, but without 2nd a... we have to angle to fight for anything.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:42:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hebrew_Battle_Rifle:
You people have no business having contempt for Nazis.


Strangest invocation of Godwin I've ever seen.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:46:09 AM EST
2nd Amendment.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:07:23 AM EST
2nd...


Needs moar poll....
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:10:55 AM EST
Wow, that's actually pretty difficult.

From my own POV, a man, I'd say 2A.

But in reality, you're giving us the option of:

A. The .gov telling us what we can do with our bodies.
B. The .gov telling us what we can do with some tangible items.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:25:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By shootemup:
A. The .gov telling us what we can do with our bodies.
B. The .gov telling us what we can do with some tangible items.


Now, you done got People thinking a littler deeper.

~R

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:26:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ripak:
Originally Posted By shootemup:
A. The .gov telling us what we can do with our bodies.
B. The .gov telling us what we can do with some tangible items.


Now, you done got People thinking a littler deeper.

~R


Don't get your hopes up.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:36:27 AM EST
The 2nd is the protector of all the others.

However the value 50%ish of our population puts on babies should tell you where were going.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:51:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Silence:
AGNTSA


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:11:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:14:55 AM EST by ScoutOut]
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By AKFF:
I'm trying to figure out why it would ever come down to either / or.



That's pretty much it.....is it a trade or something?





I think the question could be better worded as: "If you are anti-abortion would you give up up owning guns to save all the lives of the "babies" that are killed by abortion?" Why choose guns as the thing to give up? Because this is a gun site.


Atleast I think that's what the OP is trying to get at.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:16:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:23:01 AM EST by neoinarien]
the 2nd Amendment is about protecting people from government abuse and saving lives. Banning abortion would save far more lives per year.

Ban (most forms of) abortion!!

Millions are killed world wide each year around the world, and hundreds of thousands (800,000+) alone in the US.

warning: graphic. pictures of aborted babies. you have been warned!

http://giovanniworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/abortion06.jpg

http://marginalizedactiondinosaur.net/wordp/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/abortion1.jpg



eta: i changed them from posted pics to link. note: graphic.

eta 2: gave larger graphic warning
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:18:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:19:18 AM EST by shootemup]
..
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:21:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:21:55 AM EST by neoinarien]
Originally Posted By shootemup:
..


....

maybe if more people saw pictures of the babies dismembered remains from an abortion, we can have some more truth in the thread.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:22:06 AM EST
Is it that time again?...
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:32:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:35:34 AM EST by nationwide]
Originally Posted By Ripak:
I know I'll get flamed and maybe even have replies that might get this thread locked.

Its not really a difficult choice for me.
2nd amendment rights trumps everything.
Here's the kicker. I'd never want to ban abortions. I'm pro choice on this.
~R


I don't know your reasons, but here's my thoughts...

I am Roman Catholic, and it's my belief that women who have abortions will always regret it greatly. It will usually cause them great emotional and psychological problems in life.

I believe that's God's way of setting them straight. So why or where do I need to get involved.

I strongly believe that life begins at conception. But I belive even more in our nation's founding documents. I may not agree with abortion, but we individually have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There's lots of things people do that I disagree strongly with, but it's still there right.

I think Roe v. Wade is a horrific example of judicial legislation... medical privacy my ass!

But individual liberty... it's not always sunshine and rainbows
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:36:39 AM EST
It really comesdown to whether or not you want the govt. involved in your personal life decisions. I tend to side with libertarian ideas more often than pure conservative ones.

Leave the govt. out of our lives as much as possible.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:38:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By neoinarien:
Originally Posted By shootemup:
..


....

maybe if more people saw pictures of the babies dismembered remains from an abortion, we can have some more truth in the thread.


You're right, this debate does need more emotion.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:39:09 AM EST
2nd Amendment comes before abortion. Abortion belongs on the state level.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:47:40 AM EST
Apples and Oranges.

I like oranges.
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