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Posted: 12/28/2003 12:19:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:25:32 AM EDT
Ummm- she's dead.

and the PD botched the investigation so badly, that no one could ever be convicted.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:27:53 AM EDT
I was there and saw Jimmy Hoffa kill the girl.  Michael Jackson was the getaway driver.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:28:03 AM EDT
Her parents acted very suspiciously, acted as if they expected to be charged with the crime.  Weird, since there was nothing to lead the cops to believe the parents had anything to do with the crime.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:32:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
I was there and saw Jimmy Hoffa kill the girl.  Michael Jackson was the getaway driver.
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But where were OJ and 2pac?
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:35:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Taxman:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
I was there and saw Jimmy Hoffa kill the girl.  Michael Jackson was the getaway driver.
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But where were OJ and 2pac?
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OJ was playing golf at the same time he was looking for the [i]real[/i] killer.  2pac was with Notorious BIG plotting the murder of Jam Master Jay.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:36:17 AM EDT
OJ and tupac were fighting over the gun Al Pacino used in "Heat"
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:37:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:38:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:53:33 AM EDT
Didn't the ransom note ask for the same exact amount of money that the father got as a Christmas bonus that year? 118,000. How many people knew how much his bonus was? Poor little girl. A lot of people should be ashamed.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:59:58 AM EDT
Creepy man, just creepy.

[img]http://www.bellenet.com/jonbenet/jbr19.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:51:28 AM EDT
If she was alive today she probally would be doing pornos. I think it's very wrong to do that to your child. Let kids, be kids.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:10:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Years and years and nothing...
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Actually, there's DNA evidence in the posession of the FBI.  Apparently, it doesn't match any family members.  The FBI is going to run it through the national database.  I caught bits and pieces on MSNBC last night.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:52:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Creepy man, just creepy.

[url]http://www.bellenet.com/jonbenet/jbr19.jpg[/url]
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yessssir!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:54:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BBossman:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Years and years and nothing...
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Actually, there's DNA evidence in the posession of the FBI.  Apparently, it doesn't match any family members.  The FBI is going to run it through the national database.  I caught bits and pieces on MSNBC last night.
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Yeah watch them find a match to some kid who was born last year.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:58:18 AM EDT
Ok, who is the freak who has this website:

[url]http://www.bellenet.com/jonbenet/[/url]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:36:46 AM EDT
Fact is...MOST crimes of this sort are committed by a family member.  For it to work in this case, requires the aiding and abetting of other, adult family members backed up by a very good legal team and an incredibly stupid and partisan cop leadership team.

Mom...Dad...Brother.  Take your pick.  I just don't think an outsider got in, killed the girl and got out, all without leaving lots more evidence.  Far too many other motive/means/opportunity clues ignored, lost, ruined by the idiots at the local cop shop.

Bungled by the numbers and the perp[s] are going to walk.  May they rot in hell for hurting that child.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:49:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:
Her parents acted very suspiciously, acted as if they expected to be charged with the crime.  Weird, since there was nothing to lead the cops to believe the parents had anything to do with the crime.
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If the Police had half a chance they would have prosecuted the parents , just to get it off the books, whether or not they are guilty I have no idea --- something is fishy for sure.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:21:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Years and years and nothing...
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A few months back there was a guest on the "Imus In the Morning" radio show who is a reporter for a Boulder (IIRC) newspaper. He has investigated the case, seemingly more thoroughly and effectively than the police. He spent about twenty minutes outlining all the specifics, all the details, all the family history and dynamics, all the evidence, all the claims and denials. At the end, his conclusion, as was mine after listening, is that the brother did it and the parents are covering up. They lost one child and don't want to lose another.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:25:31 AM EDT
Disclaimer: This is an opinion and nothing more, based solely on gut feeling.

I think the mother offed her, and the father doesn't have the sand to turn her in.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:39:14 AM EDT
Doesn't matter who pulled the trigger, the mom made sure that kid was screwed to begin with. There has to be some kind of crime in whoring-out your child like that.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:25:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterSkippy:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Years and years and nothing...
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A few months back there was a guest on the "Imus In the Morning" radio show who is a reporter for a Boulder (IIRC) newspaper. He has investigated the case, seemingly more thoroughly and effectively than the police. He spent about twenty minutes outlining all the specifics, all the details, all the family history and dynamics, all the evidence, all the claims and denials. At the end, his conclusion, as was mine after listening, is that the brother did it and the parents are covering up. They lost one child and don't want to lose another.
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We have a winner!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:38:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 6:43:03 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

She was abused by a close family member then later the mother covered it up by writing the fake ransom note.

The mother is a cold-hearted, abusive control-freak and a fucking Class-A liar. The father is a rich doofus who doesn't know shit about his family (or else is a reeeeal good liar and actor). He's covering for what he knows is the truth.

The parents should have been separated and questioned by police THAT NIGHT! How long did it take before the police thoroughly questioned them?

The police fucked up the case partly because of incompetence, partly because of the pressure media circus and partly because the Mr. Ramsey was a rich fucking gotrocks and that kind of money buys a lot of get-out-of-jail-free cards.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:03:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 7:04:36 AM EDT by gunham]
Evidentally, the house has a weird design to it and the cops didn't think that someone that had not been in the house before could find the basement where the body was located.

P.S.  It may not have been that complicated, it just may be that the cops could not find THEIR way around.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:08:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide:
Originally Posted By raven:
Her parents acted very suspiciously, acted as if they expected to be charged with the crime.  Weird, since there was nothing to lead the cops to believe the parents had anything to do with the crime.
View Quote


If the Police had half a chance they would have prosecuted the parents , just to get it off the books, whether or not they are guilty I have no idea --- something is fishy for sure.
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When a married man or woman dies, it's natural to suspect the spouse.  But a 5 year old child?  What possible motive there have been?  There's obviously not that much other evidence, no DA in his right mind would take a case so flimsy to court.  The only thing that indicated foul play was the incredibly defensive nature of the parents.  I mean, their daughter is murdered, and their first instinct is to scream "WE DIDN'T DO IT!!"
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:15:56 AM EDT
shame the parents who Pimped and Offed the child
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:27:34 AM EDT
Well, having lived in CO during this time, the local opinion was that a truly massive cover up had taken place.

The parents *refused* to be interviewed by the police, for months after the crime.
I guess being that rich makes it an option?

Poor little child had physical evidence of long term molestation.

Father was suspected, and is probably guilty as sin.

Best guess was that the Mother had stumbled across the ugly little scene in the basement on Christmas Eve, and that she swung a heavy object, aiming at the father's head, and accidentally shattered her own daughter's skull.
The mother was somewhat of a psycho bitch already, having survived mutilating cancer surgery, and having always been an insecure, brainless, Southern beauty pageant type.

The garrote around the child's neck was not enough to have completely strangled her, but was only enough to make her lose consciousness.
The stick in the garrote, btw, was one of the mother's paint brushes. The crushing blow to the head is what killed her.

The mother could never prove she had *not* written the ransom note, as handwriting analysis proved "inconclusive".

The reference to Subic Bay Base, and the exact amount of the father's bonus money in the ransom note, was a bit too private of information for anyone but the parents to have known.

They tried to pin it on many outside people, but the fact remained, that there were absolutely no tracks in the fresh snow leading away from the basement window where entry was supposedly made.

Many top people in the Boulder PD resigned over this crime, with court threats to keep quiet over what they saw or speculated.

It was a dirty deal, deliberately mishandled by the PD, greased with whopping amounts of cash, power, and payoffs from the well connected father.  

The perps will never see justice.



Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:44:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterSkippy:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Years and years and nothing...
View Quote


A few months back there was a guest on the "Imus In the Morning" radio show who is a reporter for a Boulder (IIRC) newspaper. He has investigated the case, seemingly more thoroughly and effectively than the police. He spent about twenty minutes outlining all the specifics, all the details, all the family history and dynamics, all the evidence, all the claims and denials. At the end, his conclusion, as was mine after listening, is that the brother did it and the parents are covering up. They lost one child and don't want to lose another.
View Quote



Here we have the Truth...Ding Ding!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:26:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:43:41 AM EDT
Well, in CO, they brought up her medical records, which showed chronic urinary tract infections, and bed wetting problems, which can both be signs of sexual abuse in such a young girl. The infections in particular, are a red flag.

The TV documentary may have skipped this part, for fear of law suits.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:03:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:05:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Cheat:
Ok, who is the freak who has this website:

[url]http://www.bellenet.com/jonbenet/[/url]
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according to whois.com, it's [url=http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/results.jhtml;jsessionid=EHPVWARFHGUHMCWLEAKSFFA?_requestid=1032577] this guy[/url].


-HS
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:55:58 AM EDT
Mom did it or is covering up for whoever did it.  There were phrases in the long, rambling "ransome note" that only she used.  
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:17:03 AM EDT
Boulder County has a tremendously high rate of child abuse cases, and Boulder has a bunch of pc police.

They will never close the case, and in my opinion, never intended too.

Lots of weird stuff going on in that town.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:05:25 AM EDT
This is a  long, but worthwhile read:

[url]http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/index_1.html?sect=7[/url]

The media and the police totally screwed this up.  My gut tells me that the only reason the prosecution is not still pursuing this case is because they realized that John and Patsy Ramsey are innocent, and the state doesn't much like the taste of crow.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:55:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chimborazo:
This is a  long, but worthwhile read:

[url]http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/index_1.html?sect=7[/url]

The media and the police totally screwed this up.  My gut tells me that the only reason the prosecution is not still pursuing this case is because they realized that John and Patsy Ramsey are innocent, and the state doesn't much like the taste of crow.
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Hmm this paints an *extemely* sugar-coated view of the situation.  It almost reads as a story about finding the "real killers" by OJ Simpson.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:20:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Disclaimer: This is an opinion and nothing more, based solely on gut feeling.

I think the mother offed her, and the father doesn't have the sand to turn her in.
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I really think Mommy did it too

just an opinion no facts to back it up
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:41:08 PM EDT
Why do so many people think the police fouled up the investigation?  Sometimes there is just not enough evidence to prove a case plain and simple. If they arrest the parents before they are ready and can't prove the case, the clock starts running and eventually they would have to go to trial unprepared and would most likely lose the case.  I haven't heard of much they messed up they just haven't solved the case yet and may never do so.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:31:58 PM EDT
My money is on dad. Nobody is going to talk because if dad goes to jail, mom goes to the poor house. If mom did it, she'll rat dad out for child molest if he tells. If the brother did it, they both don't want the grief and think it's better to cover it up and get him to a psychiatrist. I saw the interview with the initial investigator. She was a total goof and most likely screwed any chance they ever had of solving this case.  A divorce or death bed confession is the only way they're going to solve this.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:52:33 PM EDT
[url]http://www.amberlys-place.com/[/url]
Very similar to an old homicide that occured locally.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:40:53 PM EDT
I believe some family member was perving on the girl for a while, I believe she was going to bring that out into the open and Mommy Dearest could not handle the thought of that news getting out and killed her. Then the family covered it up.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:46:04 PM EDT
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/30/jonbenet.ramsey/index.html[/url]

DNA submission could offer break in JonBenet case, attorney says

Tuesday, December 30, 2003 Posted: 3:51 PM EST (2051 GMT)

JonBenet Ramsey

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- If the attorney for JonBenet Ramsey's family is right, the murder of the 6-year-old beauty queen could be solved by some faceless crime lab technician.

A male DNA sample that was found on JonBenet's underwear was submitted recently to an FBI database, said attorney Lin Wood, who called it a "dramatic development" that could clear John and Patsy Ramsey.

But experts are not so optimistic.

A suspect will be found from the DNA database only if he had been required to submit a DNA sample after being convicted of a violent felony, said Zack Gaskin, technical director of forensics for DNAPrint Genomics of Sarasota, Florida.

There was no immediate match, but Wood said new samples from criminals and crime scenes around the country are added daily.

There is also a national backlog in DNA testing that could further hinder the investigation.

"One of the issues that's crippling the country is we have a lot of registered offender samples that are either owed to certain agencies or you have a bunch that are collected that haven't been put into the database yet," Gaskin said. "The problem there is that crime labs around the country are inundated with work."

FBI officials declined to comment on the size of the backlog, but the agency in 2000 said some 500,000 DNA samples were awaiting submission from crime labs around the country.

As of October, the latest information available, the FBI-managed database contained 66,714 DNA profiles from evidence collected at crime scenes and more than 1.4 million DNA profiles of people convicted of violent crimes.

The database has helped solve more than 10,000 cases since it became operational in 1998, the FBI said.

"It's amazing what they can do with DNA these days and these databases are still relatively new," said attorney Craig Silverman, a former Denver prosecutor who has followed the Ramsey case. "Absent a DNA hit or a confession, it would be very tough to convict anybody for this horrific crime."

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her Boulder home on December 26, 1996, and the case soon became a tabloid sensation. A cloud of suspicion surrounded the girl's parents, who insisted the crime was committed by an intruder.

A grand jury investigation ended without charges in 1999, but the case got new life this year when District Attorney Mary Keenan took over the case from police.

Test results in 1997 and 1999 were not of high-enough quality to submit to the database, but a new DNA profile was worked up and submitted last month, Wood said.

Keenan would say only that DNA information in the case has been sent to the database. Wood was more specific: The test results are from DNA from a male unrelated to the Ramseys that was found intermingled with JonBenet's blood in her underwear.

"I think that it is in all probability, if not almost undisputedly, from the killer," Wood said. "I think that when you get a match of the DNA in her blood, you will have identified her killer."
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:23:36 PM EDT
Sad case.  A lot of press hype.

It has no effect on me in the least, so I really do not care about it.  I also do not care about Kobe Bryant -- more press hype and misdirection from the real events of the day.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:13:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 9:15:28 PM EDT by warlord]
longun45: What happens if this little girl was your child, or sister?
The killer will eventually be found, because there is no statute of limitations for murder.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:48:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
[url]http://www.amberlys-place.com/[/url]
Very similar to an old homicide that occured locally.

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I happen to live in the neighborhood where this happened. Very sad. LEOs interviewed every one in the neighborhood but never came up with anything concrete, sad.........
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 11:49:15 PM EDT by SNorman]
Oooh they found DNA that doesn't belong to anybody in the house woo hoo.  Well, I guess now I know what to do if I ever off anybody in my house.  Just collect some "DNA" (hair, skin particles from keyboard, etc.) from a coworker and plant it on the crime scene.  Yeah, I got yer reasonable doubt right here!  

P.S. What was that movie, where only people with perfect DNS were allowed to do stuff? And they would test people to make sure they were part of the "pure" ones?  And that dude was faking it, and had to keep his workplace super clean and not leave behind any hairs and stuff?
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 4:01:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman:

P.S. What was that movie, where only people with perfect DNS were allowed to do stuff? And they would test people to make sure they were part of the "pure" ones?  And that dude was faking it, and had to keep his workplace super clean and not leave behind any hairs and stuff?
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Gataca was the movie, I may have misspelled it. Ethan Hawk (as I recall) and Uma Thurman were in it.
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