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Posted: 3/10/2015 1:21:46 PM EDT
Always wondered. I think they explained it to me when I bought my truck but I can't remember. I know they hit you separately for tags&title right? So what does the doc fee cover? Some other bs charge to pad their profit?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:23:03 PM EDT
just to pad their pocket
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:25:36 PM EDT
It pays them to do the paperwork REQUIRED by their state.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:27:09 PM EDT
It covers the documentation. Pays the notaries and filing fees. It's weird because if the dealership charges it to one person, they have to charge it to everyone. So even if you negotiate it out, they just discount the selling price of the car the amount of their doc fee and then it happens anyway. In most cases it's completely overinflated. No way do those things cost more than $50, but it's not uncommon to see a $250 doc fee.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:27:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By trauma645:
just to pad their pocket
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Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:27:55 PM EDT
It covers paying someone to handle all the documentation. Loan docs, invoices, etc. Basically any paperwork associated with the sale. We charge them when we finance semi-trailers as well. Typically about $500.00
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:28:56 PM EDT
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:29:09 PM EDT
Sort of like a service charge, administration fee, I've even seen a "customer charge" on a utility bill. What, they charge you just for being a customer?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:29:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
It covers paying someone to handle all the documentation. Loan docs, invoices, etc. Basically any paperwork associated with the sale. We charge them when we finance semi-trailers as well. Typically about $500.00
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How long does it take to do the paper work?

Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:30:38 PM EDT
Just bought a car last week and there was a notice on the wall of the F&I office that the doc fee was not required. It was obviously one of those notices they are "required to post in a conspicuous location". Don't know if that notice is state of TX or not but probably is. It was $35 so I chose not to go all ARFCOMmer on the F&I guy.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:31:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rogueboss:
Always wondered. I think they explained it to me when I bought my truck but I can't remember. I know they hit you separately for tags&title right? So what does the doc fee cover? Some other bs charge to pad their profit?
View Quote



It covers the doc.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:31:19 PM EDT
Dealer profit
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:31:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2015 1:38:24 PM EDT by PersnlResponsibility]
The dealer can make their "doc fee" whatever they want it to be. It's technically to cover doing the documentation (filling out the paperwork and filing it with the DMV) but now that it's all computerized it's basically just all profit. That said the profit margins are pretty slim (at least at used car dealerships), it's not like the dealership is making thousands and thousands of dollars on every vehicle they sell. A lot of them make most of their profit from doc fee and financing charges/interest. I work for a company that makes Dealer Management Software.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:31:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.
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Stop. Do you get paid where you work?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:31:44 PM EDT
It's a bullshit fee - I've had the dealer eat it on my last 3 new car purchases. They just absorb it.

The $500 plus doc fees are just another way to pad their pocket. Any dealer who refuses to budge or decrease the sales price by that amount I just walk, it's petty on their part.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:32:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RightwingNutjob:
Sort of like a service charge, administration fee, I've even seen a "customer charge" on a utility bill. What, they charge you just for being a customer?
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When I worked in service, we had a 'shop fee'.

I always thought the use of the shop was implied. The reality is that it allows a lower advertised hourly rate.

"We don't charge $100/hour like the other places, we only charge $85/hour (and add fees so it costs you $100/hour in the end anyway)! "
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:32:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.

Stop.

Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:33:31 PM EDT
The internal office paperwork that the secretaries perform.

Asking the customers to pay for it, especially hundreds of dollars, is a scam.

Never pay "doc. (document) fees." it's a part of he dealership's overhead.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:34:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?




Found the used car salesman.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:34:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:35:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tweek218:




Found the used car salesman.
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Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?




Found the used car salesman.


Wrong.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:35:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?


Yep, been working for dealers for over thirty years as a master technician.
I know all their tricks.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:37:18 PM EDT
Lein search, CarProof, .gov inspection, donuts, coffee, pizza, subs and whatnot.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:37:56 PM EDT
I'm a boat dealer. I work other shows with dealers from around the IL WI MN area.

I price all my units out the door except for tax. A lot of these other guys hammer you with prep, delivery, doc etc. I have seen quite a few pissed off folks walk once they get them to the table as I would as well.


Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:39:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:


How long does it take to do the paper work?

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Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
It covers paying someone to handle all the documentation. Loan docs, invoices, etc. Basically any paperwork associated with the sale. We charge them when we finance semi-trailers as well. Typically about $500.00


How long does it take to do the paper work?



No idea, I don't do the paperwork myself. It's not charged by my company, it's charged by the finance company. Here's how a financed sale in my place goes.

I get a customer interested in a trailer, then we agree to a price. He fills out a credit ap, and I send it to the finance companies we use. GE Capital being the most common.

GE comes back and says yes or no on the guy. If yes they include the terms of the loan. Interest rate, doc fees, etc. along with the total amount of the loan, and what the payment is.

If the customer agrees, we get the contract from GE, sign the docs, then I send them back to GE and that's the last I see of it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:39:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dagger41:
Lein search, CarProof, .gov inspection, donuts, coffee, pizza, subs and whatnot.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:40:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?


Are you saying the girls in the witche's den get paid their hourly rate only from doc fees ?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:40:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By America-first:
The internal office paperwork that the secretaries perform.

Asking the customers to pay for it, especially hundreds of dollars, is a scam.

Never pay "doc. (document) fees." it's a part of he dealership's overhead.
View Quote

FSA
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:42:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2015 1:44:09 PM EDT by fettesbrotde]
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?
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Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?

Bitch please.... you know better than that.

Spare me the "poor car dealership" line.

My point: Doc fee is bullshit to get more money.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:43:06 PM EDT
Try and get "out the door" prices when shopping dealerships. It doesn't mean your price won't be loaded with junk fees but it kind of cuts out adding them in at the finance office. I've had sales folk refuse to do it, with reasons like not knowing for sure what incentives I'll qualify for, or how my loan works out and such. I just wound up not buying there.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:44:32 PM EDT
So if someone is not "financing" and is paying cash for the vehicle would they still charge this?

I'm waiting for more excuses from the car dealers on here. I thought it was probably along the lines of making sure they at least made that $250 in profit to add it to their numbers.

Question to car sales people: How are finance guys paid? Hourly or some sort of commission?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:46:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:

Bitch please.... you know better than that.


Spare me the "poor car dealership" line.
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
It's just another way car dealers pick your pocket.


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?

Bitch please.... you know better than that.


Spare me the "poor car dealership" line.


At my work I get paid exclusively on commission. I get 15% of the total profit of the sale. I don't see shit for doc fees that the finance companies charge. I do my best to hold profit, so that I can make money. I'm more than willing to let a guy walk before I sell a good piece of equipment at cost, or at such a slim profit that it's not worth my time to deal with the guy when I can potentially sell it to someone else and make more money and thus more worth my time.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:47:12 PM EDT
At the dealership where I worked, the doc fees covered the cost of the owner's boat.

The dealership office did the paperwork and gave it to a company that used runners to take the stuff to the motor vehicle office and wait. They got a percentage for that. I think the dealership got around half of the money they charged you.

I've never heard of a dealer who would put a zero on the line for the doc fees. They'll take $500 off the price of something else if the customer complains long enough, but never the doc fees. I guess there's an accounting and tax reason for it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:47:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rogueboss:
So if someone is not "financing" and is paying cash for the vehicle would they still charge this?

I'm waiting for more excuses from the car dealers on here. I thought it was probably along the lines of making sure they at least made that $250 in profit to add it to their numbers.

Question to car sales people: How are finance guys paid? Hourly or some sort of commission?
View Quote


Finance people generally get a salary, plus a small commission fee from the finance charges. In my line of work, if you pay cash for something, all you pay is the price of the trailer. I hand you a title and you go on your way. Taxes get paid when you register the vehicle, so that's your problem not mine.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:51:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:


At my work I get paid exclusively on commission. I get 15% of the total profit of the sale. I don't see shit for doc fees that the finance companies charge. I do my best to hold profit, so that I can make money. I'm more than willing to let a guy walk before I sell a good piece of equipment at cost, or at such a slim profit that it's not worth my time to deal with the guy when I can potentially sell it to someone else and make more money and thus more worth my time.
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Originally Posted By Duramaxman0909:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:
Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:
Originally Posted By fettesbrotde:


Stop. Do you get paid where you work?

Fucking please.


Stop.


Dealers get paid with a doc fee or no doc fee.


I do this for a living. There are lot's of people that get paid from a single car deal. Where does all this magic money come from?

Bitch please.... you know better than that.


Spare me the "poor car dealership" line.


At my work I get paid exclusively on commission. I get 15% of the total profit of the sale. I don't see shit for doc fees that the finance companies charge. I do my best to hold profit, so that I can make money. I'm more than willing to let a guy walk before I sell a good piece of equipment at cost, or at such a slim profit that it's not worth my time to deal with the guy when I can potentially sell it to someone else and make more money and thus more worth my time.
Nothing wrong with that - it's the dealership's business to do such.

It's also in my business to walk to a dealership that will deal with me, and with a good deal, and earn my loyalty to buying from them multiple times and having my vehicle serviced there.

Too many salesmen can't see that far though - they look at what THEY are making in the deal, and not the company as a whole. Can't blame ya though... it's not your problem as a salesman

Link Posted: 3/10/2015 1:57:17 PM EDT
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Too many salesmen can't see that far though - they look at what THEY are making in the deal, and not the company as a whole. Can't blame ya though... it's not your problem as a salesman


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Not entirely true, my family owns the place I work, it is in my benefit to make loyal customers. But there's a way to do it that is beneficial for both. It can't be a one way street, there are a lot of customers that not worth having. Every deal is different. I've had equipment that we couldn't give away, so the guy that finally wanted it got a heck of a good deal. Equipment that is in high demand, and I can't get enough of (used aluminum flatbeds for example, are non existent right now) I'm not going to give away.

When we get good customers are that pleasant to deal with, we're much more likely to deal. When we get a guy that comes in like a hard ass making demands, we tend to shrug and let our competitors take the headache.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:05:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rogueboss:
So if someone is not "financing" and is paying cash for the vehicle would they still charge this?
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I was at a car dealership two weeks ago. I had $9,000 cash in my pocket ready to buy a used car. Yes they still wanted to charge me $200 for the document fee.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:08:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tweek218:


I was at a car dealership two weeks ago. I had $9,000 cash in my pocket ready to buy a used car. Yes they still wanted to charge me $200 for the document fee.
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Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Originally Posted By rogueboss:
So if someone is not "financing" and is paying cash for the vehicle would they still charge this?


I was at a car dealership two weeks ago. I had $9,000 cash in my pocket ready to buy a used car. Yes they still wanted to charge me $200 for the document fee.


That's cheap.
Ours is 499 for used, 619 for new, and 899 for sub-prime.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:14:42 PM EDT
According to the Sovereign Citizen movement part of it is for the filing of the manufactures "Certificate of Origin". This certificate goes to the federal government so they technically own the vehicle regardless of who pays for it.




Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:15:35 PM EDT
The Charlotte Nc dealers have conspired to all have a $600 doc fee, new or used, no matter the price.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:15:48 PM EDT
Profit
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:19:30 PM EDT
People dumb enough to pay the doc fee when buying a car deserve to get charged a doc fee. I have walked on 2-3 deals over ridicilous fees and had them calling begging to come back and they will eat the fees. EVERY time within 2 hours.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:50:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bjohnson425:
People dumb enough to pay the doc fee when buying a car deserve to get charged a doc fee. I have walked on 2-3 deals over ridicilous fees and had them calling begging to come back and they will eat the fees. EVERY time within 2 hours.
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The sad thing is probably many, many people just pay the fee and move I. They probably don't mind eating it on the few that ask because they already screwed over 10 suckers that day and have $2500 pure profit from them.
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