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Posted: 8/8/2007 1:51:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Minor SHTF - Nothing.
Major all-out balls to the walls SHTF where they had to pull the guards/sheriffs away - There is no way in hell that kind of SHTF is going to happen. They would call up anyone and everyone in the regular police force and reserve as well as everyone that had ever joined the .mil. In the event that happened, they would leave the absolute bare-minimum skeleton crew to watch the prisons/jails. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:05:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Local communities would learn what a 'bad day' really was.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:07:49 AM EDT
[#3]
I worked in a Maximum Security prison for almost 4 years.
It's scary to be locked into a place and rely on others to open about 30 reinforced steel doors to let you out to your car.  I always wondered what would happen if someone went crazy and shot everyone in Master Control or the world ended and they abandoned post while the rest of us poor fuckers were back with the population. 
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:16:34 AM EDT
[#4]
what happened in NOLA during Katrina???
I am sure some would get out, some would rot, some would be taaken care of.... |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:21:15 AM EDT
[#5]
The prisoners would take advantage of the confusion outside and start a violent riot in thier attempt to escape. The local population would then take up positions surrounding the prison and open fire on anyone trying to escape.
[psycho] All I know is I finally get to kill somebody[psycho] |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:41:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Agreed. Some/many would die at the hands of other prisoners in the riot. In an effort to quell the situation, gaurds/citizens would have to take drastic measures and open fire killing many. Some prisoners would retreat to safety (their cells) and comply, others would fight. Most of the 'fighters' would die, a very limited few would infact escape and later attempt to take advantage of the confusion of the SHTF situation, like what happened in Katrina. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 2:52:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Part of the reason I asked is because I actually work in a prison. These sort of questions roll through my head quite a bit. Of course, anyone working in this system is always walking around asking themselves, "what if?"
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:00:32 AM EDT
[#8]
You guys dont have an emergency back-up plan in case this were to happen? |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:02:51 AM EDT
[#9]
I'd bet on the guards just locking the place down as best they could and going home to protect their families if it's some "end of the world the state police/national guard aren't coming and zombies/fallout/plague/etc is about to kill my family." Obviously no one is letting anyone go into the community most of the guards live in.
I never thought about something less than an organized abandonment where some guys run for it and others are locked inside-->  That'd probably be a great book since you'd know the subject matter well.Except for some supermax place filled with Hannibal Lector types I just can't picture many COs being willing to kill the inmates. I would guess everyone in the prison would starve in a complete breakdown, or be eaten/enslaved by hungry townsfolk. 
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:03:32 AM EDT
[#10]
If the SHTF and there was no one to let the prisoners out, the only problem you would have would be the smell of the place in about 7 days. I imagine most will die from dehydration or starvation.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:36:14 AM EDT
[#11]
I work in Catagory A/High security Prison & from what i understand if the the SHTF many inmates would be released on temporary license
 & only the most dangerous offenders will stay, seems to me this would just add to the chaos. , if the SHTF i wouldnt stay to hold their hands.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:44:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Prisons are obligated to take care of the prisoners. If they cannot fulfill the task, the prison will be shut down and the prisoners will be transferred elsewhere. If a disaster is pending / expected, contingencies would be made similar to the areas affected by Katrina. They would relocate the prisoners to a place deemed safe enough to secure them. If it was impossible to house the prisoners, then their sentences would obviously be commuted or deferred. You don't sentence people to death for minor offenses and starving them / other cruel punishment is against the law.
You need to be realistic. The most likely scenario would be a transfer of inmates to a safe location. Probably a tent city with razor wire, armed patrols, and floodlights surrounding them. A worse scenario would be to free everyone but the worst offenders and those on death row. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 3:47:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Are you actually a CO or some support staff member? To be honest, if you "always walk around asking yourself what if", get the fuck out because you are a danger to those around you. If I find out someone I work with is pondering how they will react in a SHTF situation, we will be having a serious talk. Support staff doesn't even count in my book, because 99.99% are useless to begin with. You say you are "writing a book" and you sound a lot like the guy who worked in Sing Sing for a year, thought he knew everything, then wrote a book. Scares the hell out of me that idiots like that were actually hired in the first place and just shows how scared he really was. If yu are worried/scared, quit. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 4:04:12 AM EDT
[#14]
As far as natural disaster SHTF scenarios, they do get relocated. We had over 400 inmates in our gym at our prison when the gulf coast was hit after katrina, as far as like something extreme like foreign army invasion... Who cares I will quit my job on the spot to go home, and load up, and bug out to my secret place.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 4:06:07 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 8/8/2007 7:35:48 PM EDT
[#16]
WTF? Yeah, I'm a CO and I love it. I get the most block time on every shift I work because I love it. I only ask what if because I like to run scenarios through my head all the time. I never said I was scared at all, just curious. If they kill me, so what. I look out for my fellow officers first. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 7:41:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Historically, prisoners have either been left locked up to starve to death or released into the general populace, depending on the sort of impending doom approaching. Witness New Orleans. |
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Posted: 8/8/2007 7:47:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Haha nice, gotta love that.  
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Posted: 8/8/2007 7:50:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Most jails are at the bare minimum anyways.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 8:11:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Our always is. 3 COs per 100 inmates. Fun job though.
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Posted: 8/8/2007 8:42:49 PM EDT
[#21]
If you don't play the "what if" game sooner or later you're gonna find yourself stuck behind the 8 ball. You have to look around and say to yourself if that person does "A" I'll respond with "B" and if that fails I fall back to plan "C". |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 12:03:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Exactly my point! I'm glad someone gets it! That's what survival is all about. |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 12:47:50 AM EDT
[#23]
I used to have three prisons and two mental hospitals,
(one maximum security) within a 40 mile radius. Kinda explains how I wound up posting on Arfcom.
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Posted: 8/9/2007 12:55:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Shit, I don't deal with anything that dangerous on a daily basis, and I'm constantly gaming out "what if" scenarios. Oh, and for what it's worth, IMHO, you'll be abandoned, and eaten by the prisoners. 
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Posted: 8/9/2007 1:00:44 AM EDT
[#25]
I guess it really depends. The prison is responsible for the welfare of the prisoners, but the point of the prison is to keep the prisoners out of society.
With that in mind, if a major SHTF occured, and we could not accomplish both responsibilities, and cant transfer, I would see about releasing the non-dangerous ones, and leaving the dangerous ones to rot. Seems the best compromise. |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 1:03:25 AM EDT
[#26]
I think it would be "We be outta here! You nice convicts enjoy your 6x8s for the next week. Tell Allah I said 'HI'"
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Posted: 8/9/2007 1:26:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Question:
If left completely unattended, could they get out in a reasonable amount of time? Say a couple of weeks, or a month? County? State pen? Fed? I'm asking, cuz I really have no idea what might be lying around a federal penitentiary. I would assume they would have access to tools at some point. |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 1:30:55 AM EDT
[#28]
They'd escape, and due to their "outlook", they'd do better than most and worse than most ARFcom'ers.
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Posted: 8/9/2007 4:35:34 AM EDT
[#29]
I am not saying that one should not think about a "what if" scenario, but the way you stated it is that you think about it constantly. That is neither smart nor safe. Yes, you should know what you will do, but to be just below condition Red all the time means you are constantly on edge. If you relaxed to a condition Orange, you will actually notice more of what is going on around you which in turn will help you out in a "what if" situation. I have been in the game for 20 years and AM considered one of the strictest CO's in the joint, BUT, I also know that if the SHTF, there are some old time cons that would actually have my back because of how consistent I have always been and the respect that comes with it. As far as the book writing goes, I have said a million times that f I wrote a book, no one would believe it. Which reminds me....Ever see a guy take his shoe off and have a gangrene toe come off with it? BTW, may I ask how long you have worked behind the walls? |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 6:00:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Stephen King addressed this in either "The Dead Zone" or "The Stand". Can't remember which.
Locked 'em in, and left them all alone. |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 6:03:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Study what they did during Katrina. That's real world. |
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Posted: 8/9/2007 7:36:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Thats not too bad. I worked one jail were I was with 144 for 1-2 hrs. Another one I had 72 for 8.
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Posted: 8/11/2007 4:53:49 PM EDT
[#33]
"Be courteous, be polite, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." |
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Posted: 8/11/2007 6:05:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Sooooooo, I guess I wasn't exactly wrong, huh? Slow down and actually SEE what is going on around you. It may just save your life one day.
Believe me, they don't give 2 shits about what happens as long as they are safe inside their houses and the cons are behind bars.
Do yorself a favor and forget everything they "taught" you in the academy. It just doesn't work like that. Since you have a year in, you should know that by now. Believe me, I am not trying to berate or look down on you, but there is an old saying.........I got more time in the crapper than you got in the blocks. Sometimes it is just best to open your eyes and see what really is going on. Good luck in your career, I am on my way out. It was fun a long time ago, now its just a paycheck. |
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Posted: 8/11/2007 6:26:17 PM EDT
[#35]
kool aid
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:12:41 PM EDT
[#36]
As one former inmate told me, "I'm not biased, I hate everyone the same." LOL!!! |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:21:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Do yorself a favor and forget everything they "taught" you in the academy. It just doesn't work like that. Since you have a year in, you should know that by now. _____ Here's where they did me wrong. I worked for nearly a year before sending me to school!!! How F'ed up is that? Worse, it is a habit! They've got part timers that haven't been to the academy yet at all! I just want you to know that I'm not ignoring everything you say. I find it to be worse if I don't listen to someone I may not totally agree with because I usually come back to it and learn from it. So don't think I'm blowing you off. What prompted the story idea was the fact that I love to write stories. I just wanted to do one on this topic because I knew a little about it. Not lots about it. That's why I asked for an opinion. I'm not upset that you gave me one. I appreciate the amount of time you put into your career and value your opinion. Especially since you've got so much time in. If you don't mind me asking, what was/is your favorite parts of the job? Least favorite? Best and worst experiences? If you don't wish to answer those questions, that is okay. Thanks for responding to my original question. SE |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:22:11 PM EDT
[#38]
The Walking Man would drop by.
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:31:40 PM EDT
[#39]
You escaped? |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:43:04 PM EDT
[#40]
If there were really a SHTF bad enough that they couldn't be shipped somewhere else, I expect they'd either be let go or killed/left to die, or some combination of the two, depending on the situation and the personality of the people involved.
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Posted: 8/12/2007 3:48:09 PM EDT
[#41]
It was Stephen King's "The Stand". Lloyd Henreid was locked in his cell (by himself on a cell block) because the plague had killed everybody else. The COs had deserted the place (or were dead themselves) when Randal Flagg (a.k.a. The Walking Man) freed Henreid. I still cringe every time I think of "rat tar tar". More than likely it that was the scenario I would walk off to take care of me and mine. To hell with them. Of course that would really have to be a TEOTWAWKI situation. I seriously doubt that any of them would get out if locked in their cells in my place of work. They would have to get through a solid cinder block wall (cement poured in the holes and rebar inside) then past the outer brick wall just to get out of the cell block, let alone past the perimeter fences and multiple strands of razor wire. I doubt any would get out before they dehydrated or starved. |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 4:11:12 PM EDT
[#42]
So. Whats all that mean? -dan |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 5:34:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Assuming a real TEOTWAWKI situation, my guess is that it would differ from one jail/prison to another. Some would release "non-violent" offenders. Some might release everyone. Some might lock down the worst, or all, and walk away. Some might summarily execute the worst, or all.
There also might not be a choice made. Let's say the prisoners are locked down, and something happens that has the guards leave immediately (in fear for their own lives, families, etc.), and then they're caught up in surviving and never go back. Maybe some can't bear the thought of a car burglar starving to death and head back. Maybe family members / friends / gang buddies of one or more prisoners head over to free some or all. Basically, you need to develop your characters enough so that you'll know what they'll do, and then write it. |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 5:43:27 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 8/12/2007 5:46:01 PM EDT
[#45]
What would happen?
My AR would get a workout
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Posted: 8/12/2007 5:50:12 PM EDT
[#46]
I don't believe in incarceration. If the world is perfect, we'd have no jails/prisons. We should only have the following, - "holding cell" this will be an unforgivable place to be... - firing squad the next day We should have the attitude of, "take no prisoners" kind. If you know what I mean...
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Posted: 8/12/2007 6:14:28 PM EDT
[#47]
I don't think I'd ever depend on a convict to "have my back" if the SHTF. Yes, it happens, and it might be your lucky day sometime, and they might help you out. However, I would say that chances are they'll probably just cut your throat and move on to the next guy. Never expect thug to act like anything but a thug. |
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Posted: 8/12/2007 6:59:05 PM EDT
[#48]
In the wasteland game they threw out the prisoners and brought in their families. Turning the prison into a fortress.
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