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Posted: 11/17/2003 8:51:36 PM EDT
I was watching cops last night and it had one New Jersey cop. He saw a ghetto looking kid who he busted for crack previously enter a apartment complex. He pulled over and entered the building. Right before he entered he unholstered his glock and went in pointing the gun gangster style sideways with his finger on the trigger pointing it directly at the perps head. He found the perp rolling a joint with no weapon. Is it just me or is this messed up. Pointing a loaded firearm, finger on the trigger with a round in the chamber at someones head seems really extreme. What do you all think?.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:54:46 PM EDT
I think it's Aggravated Assault, badge or no badge.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:10:29 PM EDT
Uh, this surprises you how? It's NJ. The cops there, at least in my experience, are fucking Nazi's.

Example,
Was going to AC with my cousin in a hurricane. Driving down the AC expressway broad daylight, in the heaviest rain I have ever seen, traveling about 35-40 mph a NJ state trooper pulls us over. He's decked out in his uniform. Walks up in 50mph winds and torrential rain and says he was pulling us over for not having headlights on during rain. WTF? Turns out in NJ if it is raining you must have your headlights on. So my cousin is bent, the cop will not waiver. So my cousin "conveniently" misplaced his registration and insurance and took a long time to find it. The stupid fuck stood there in the rain, soaked, shivering, trying to look tough. He got the ticket but won $1400 playing craps. We decided it was funny and worth the $47 to see the idiot get soaked to the skin over a stupid revenue enhancing law. NJ is a fucking prison. Gun laws blow. Need ID to even look at a BB gun.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:18:56 PM EDT
The state alone is messed up, I go down there every few months to visit family and I used to date a girl in seaside heights (jerry springer central). My family helped create Elizibeth, look it now. All I know is if this cop came up to me (by the way he was screaming at the perp the moment he busted through the door) someone would be dead. You just don't sneak up on someone like that from less that 3 ft away or basic instinct might kick in.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:21:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 9:22:27 PM EDT by Keithl84]
My other roommate is from NJ, he blows. nuff said

edited to add: If i had video of a cop doing that to me (assuming i wasnt doing anything) i would most def raise some hell
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:24:03 PM EDT
Where's jrzy?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 3:48:31 PM EDT by sfcret]

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
I was watching cops last night and it had one New Jersey cop. He saw a ghetto looking kid who he busted for crack previously enter a apartment complex. He pulled over and entered the building. Right before he entered he unholstered his glock and went in pointing the gun gangster style sideways with his finger on the trigger pointing it directly at the perps head. He found the perp rolling a joint with no weapon. Is it just me or is this messed up. Pointing a loaded firearm, finger on the trigger with a round in the chamber at someones head seems really extreme. What do you all think?.



just think about all the cops that got killed, because they weren't prepared to shoot, or thought to themselves, "that's not a gun".

hmmmm lets see going after some ghetto sewer rat, in a apartment complex, where you don't know what to expect.......damn that a tough one, huh?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:48:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:00:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
Could it be he was showboating for the cameras?



and that makes it ok?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:06:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:07:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sfcret:
just think about all the cops that got killed, because they weren't prepared to shoot, or thought to themselves, "that's not a gun".

hmmmm lets see going after some ghetto sewer rat, in a apartment complex, where you don't know what to expect.......damn that a tough one, huh?



Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please." Think about all the clerks killed because they don't point their weapons at everybody who approaches the counter. Think about all the homeowners killed because they don't automatically point a gun at everybody who knocks on the door.

Certainly, it is safer to point a gun at every possible threat. However, pointing guns at people who are not specifically identified as presenting an immediate threat is criminal. If a man can't bear the thought of approaching potentially dangerous people without pointing his sidearm at them, he should not be a policeman.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 4:52:26 PM EDT by The_Cheat]


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:56:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.




WTF dude???
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:02:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keithl84:

WTF dude???



+1
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:05:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.



IBTL! IBTB!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:07:52 PM EDT
I love it when folks start fightin!


IBTL!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:15:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.





Wow, I've seen a lot of shitheads post here.


You take the cake.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:16:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sfcret:
just think about all the cops that got killed, because they weren't prepared to shoot, or thought to themselves, "that's not a gun".

hmmmm lets see going after some ghetto sewer rat, in a apartment complex, where you don't know what to expect.......damn that a tough one, huh?



Really, well if you ever come to my house I guess I'll have to shove a gun barrel to your forehead with my trigger on the finger while you lie on the ground and I check your ID (Did I mention I have a really bad case of the shakes?). All I know is your some dude who posts on this forum so you might be packing and with your extreme views on use of force who knows what your capable of. This was a person the officer had caught recently and knew he was a non violent offender. Maybe this guy should see the video of the female officer who had a AD next to the perps head while she was holstering her gun.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:25:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 5:28:46 PM EDT by sfcret]
'
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:33:14 PM EDT

i saw the episode in question and my honest take on it is "officer showboating" Lets be honest here. The show "Cops" would not last very long just showing officers giving tickets for seatbelt and speeding violations. The audience wants action, and the producers and the cop "actors" give it to them.

Again, my honest opinion is that if this was the way most cops really went through thier daily shift, pointing guns and threatning civilians we would have had a revolt by now. It just don't happen that often in real life. Lawuyers would have a field day.

This is not to say it never happens. Just not as often as on COPS.

That show really sucks, but who can stop watching a train wreck? I watch it, cuss it, but always tune back in.

Also, ever notice that the guy with no shirt or an undershirt always goes to jail??? fullclip


Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:37:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sfcret:
'



Not sure what you mean by that, but no I am not actually threatening to do this, I am just hoping you will see the stupidity and excessivness of just entering a room gun drawn pointed at someone with your finger on the trigger when you know the person is a non violent offender.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:40:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By sfcret:
'



Not sure what you mean by that, but no I am not actually threatening to do this, I am just hoping you will see the stupidity and excessivness of just entering a room gun drawn pointed at someone with your finger on the trigger when you know the person is a non violent offender.




Manwitgun,...he was reffering to the cheat and wisely decided to edit his post if you will notice. I saw the post and in no way was he talking about or to you. Peace
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keithl84:
My other roommate is from NJ, he blows. nuff said



So... Is he good?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:44:00 PM EDT
he needs practice, people from Dirty Jerz aint good at nothing!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:46:23 PM EDT
IBTL!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:47:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 5:49:16 PM EDT by MAC-DADDY]

Originally Posted By Keithl84:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By sfcret:
'



Not sure what you mean by that, but no I am not actually threatening to do this, I am just hoping you will see the stupidity and excessivness of just entering a room gun drawn pointed at someone with your finger on the trigger when you know the person is a non violent offender.



Manwitgun,...he was reffering to the cheat and wisely decided to edit his post if you will notice. I saw the post and in no way was he talking about or to you. Peace




DAMN!I missed that one.

someone PM me and tell me what was said.

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:11:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keithl84:
Manwitgun,...he was reffering to the cheat and wisely decided to edit his post if you will notice. I saw the post and in no way was he talking about or to you. Peace



Okay, I didn't see what he posted in response to the cheat, must have been pretty bad if he deleted it. As for what the cheat said, that was just messed up. I hope this isn't my first post which is locked, though its the first time I got an IBTL.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:29:36 PM EDT
Cops doesnt do a great job of showing the hows and whys of LE work:

The report probubly read something like this:

"On Monday 11-17-03 at about 2330 hours, I was patrolling the HUD housing complex in my assigned patrol area. This area has a high incidence of drug activity. I have personally made several hundred arrests for drug and weapons violations at this location.
I saw a known criminal street gang member, Travis Jones, enter a known, and documented, drug house at 123 Dont walk street. Jones is on Gang Terms probation, and as a term of his probation he is not to frequent the HUD housing complex, or 123 Dont walk street. Jones is a registered DOJ violent offendor, who is known to carry firearms. I have arrested Jones several times, and in most incidents he was carrying a firearm at the time of his arrest.
I approached Jones to confront him about the probation violation. As I approached Jones, I smelled an odor of burning marijuana and saw that he was smoking a hand rolled marijuana cigarette. I arrested Jones for the probation violation , and possession of marijuana, and booked him into the county jail."
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:50:58 PM EDT
Christ, grow up. There are good and bad cops. Most are good cops. Yep, there are some bad seeds, but not many. Most civie assholes want to spread the word most are bad cops. Bullshit. Most cops need to meet the people. They don't want to do that. They think they are in a fraternity. They don't want anything to do with civies. That's too bad. Civies can be of help.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:52:23 PM EDT
i saw that.

i rewound it on TIVO and watched it a couple more times.

I think what happened is, he thought the guy ran into the building and was suprised to see the guy sitting there right at his feet when he busted in the door.

it was a little over the top.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Cops doesnt do a great job of showing the hows and whys of LE work:

The report probubly read something like this:

"On Monday 11-17-03 at about 2330 hours, I was patrolling the HUD housing complex in my assigned patrol area. This area has a high incidence of drug activity. I have personally made several hundred arrests for drug and weapons violations at this location.
I saw a known criminal street gang member, Travis Jones, enter a known, and documented, drug house at 123 Dont walk street. Jones is on Gang Terms probation, and as a term of his probation he is not to frequent the HUD housing complex, or 123 Dont walk street. Jones is a registered DOJ violent offendor, who is known to carry firearms. I have arrested Jones several times, and in most incidents he was carrying a firearm at the time of his arrest.
I approached Jones to confront him about the probation violation. As I approached Jones, I smelled an odor of burning marijuana and saw that he was smoking a hand rolled marijuana cigarette. I arrested Jones for the probation violation , and possession of marijuana, and booked him into the county jail."



Hmm thats a great scenario in your mind there, but if you read the post, I said the officer busted the criminal before. When he busted him, he let him go and pressed no charges. Since he did that you can assume the officer knew he was non violent and didn't carry any weapons.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:14:34 PM EDT
HOW BOUT DEM RED SOX?!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
I think it's Aggravated Assault, badge or no badge.



I think the finger on the trigger is a training issue. I also think you have never been a cop in the ghetto.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:07:46 PM EDT
Hey easy on the Jersey folks. Not all of them are bad. My father in law is from Jersey and has more guns than I do. He has a pretty nice collection worth thousands of dollars. His daughter married a military man. The state it'self really sucks. The gun laws are draconian. They banned all sales of guns, two years from now, that are not "smart" guns. I'm sure their officers suffer under that kind of politics. I'm not saying that what the officer did was right. My wife that grew up in Jersey hates the cops there. She has been to court a few times after getting completely ridiculous tickets. Both times the officers failed to show for the hearing and the case was thrown out. They'll pull you over if you have out of state tags for going 1 MPH over the speed limit. This is no exageration. I like cops. I would be one if I could. I am definitely not a cop basher, but NJ is a region all of it's own. Nothing like it I can compare it to. No offense to the few good cops there. I hope they can hold that state together until reason breaks out.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:07:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
I think the finger on the trigger is a training issue.



Right. And where's that video where the lady cop pops a cap into the ground right beside the handcuffed prisoner....? It's not just "a training issue." It's inexcusable. It takes the slightest fraction of a second to move your finger from the slide to pull the trigger, but no amount of time in the world can bring back a life after an ND.

And, since this is going downhill....IBTL
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:15:23 PM EDT
nd to throw my .02 in...

The camera catches the good and the bad. Mostly it's good. Sometimes it's bad. If you could get your hands on the wealth of LE training material out there you'd see a lot of mistakes made by LE. Those mistakes end up as teaching tools and are common knowledge amongst LE.

This cop seems to be showboating and leting the camera get the best of him. For every on e poor example, there's a million god ones.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:16:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By natez:
Bottom line, pointing a sidearm at a suspect is okay in many circumstances, and even expected. I have issues with just about everything else he did, though.



Its really sad if pointing loaded guns at people is acceptable. A pointed gun will only escalte (spelling?) a situation. When someones commiting a crime and a cop comes in hands on his gun most criminals will admit they got caught. When a cop comes in pointing a gun at you screaming at you, they will just think their lives are in immediate trouble and its kill or be killed. Who has time to look at a uniform when a guns in your face.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:17:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 8:23:36 PM EDT by sum-rifle]
I've always known the cheat was an ass.

Mmanwitgun are you a cop?
What makes you think pointing a gun will always escalate? I believe just the opposite is true.
Making it obvious to the bad guy that he should not resist and to do so would be very stupid tends to de-escalate many potentially bad situations. The guy was commiting a crime (rolling a joint) There could have been more people in the apartment, and as many people like to point out Officer safety should be paramount. Screw the doper rolling the joint.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:43:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 8:44:32 PM EDT by fizassist]

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I've always known the cheat was an ass.

Mmanwitgun are you a cop?
What makes you think pointing a gun will always escalate? I believe just the opposite is true.
Making it obvious to the bad guy that he should not resist and to do so would be very stupid tends to de-escalate many potentially bad situations. The guy was commiting a crime (rolling a joint) There could have been more people in the apartment, and as many people like to point out Officer safety should be paramount. Screw the doper rolling the joint.



OMG! He could have shot somebody with that joint!

I know cops I'd like to consider friends. I don't want to see them get hurt. I also don't think that smoking weed is a capital offense. I, personally, have never touched illegal drugs, and I don't associate with people who do; that would not be a good career move. But I honestly don't know what makes a joint any more dangerous than the glass of bourbon I'm sipping tonight.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:44:13 PM EDT
Ever notice how one-sided "Cops" is? The bad guy ALWAYS get caught. Have you ever seen an episode where the bad guys get away? Same with the highway patrol chase program. Don't know the name, but the dickhead who hosts sounds just like how most cops act. That they are the allmighty.

Most of those pricks who get the chance to level their arms and even some who get to kill somebody are living the dream. The law in this country, especially traffic cops, needs a complete overhaul. To be a cop you should have more education besides criminal justice and the interview process needs a revamp to weed out the headcases. I haven't had many run in with the police, all minor traffic offenses, but I watch how they conduct themselves in public. Most are complete misfits with major chips on their shoulders and seem perpetually pissed off at the world. I know several guys from highschool who city cops. All three were the biggest dorks in their class. This is typical nationwide.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:46:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:
Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.


Cheat....too late! You are immortalized in Sherm's sig line. You're a loser. Might as well ditch your handle and come back as 'DicDega' or 'Dykho2002'.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:51:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
I've always known the cheat was an ass.

Mmanwitgun are you a cop?
What makes you think pointing a gun will always escalate? I believe just the opposite is true.
Making it obvious to the bad guy that he should not resist and to do so would be very stupid tends to de-escalate many potentially bad situations. The guy was commiting a crime (rolling a joint) There could have been more people in the apartment, and as many people like to point out Officer safety should be paramount. Screw the doper rolling the joint.



Nope, I'm not a cop. I do know though alot of people who would open fire if someone was pointing a gun at them. This is somewhat like a case of a no knock search warrant. When someone comes up to you with their gun pointed at you the situation will become escalated. Getting pulled over and seeing the flashing red and blue is one thing, but if you were just sitting on your front steps and you see a large figure pointing a gun at your face will you A) sit there and ponder what he is wearing and why he might be there or B) Unholster your weapon and either evade the situation or shoot to save your own life.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:58:17 PM EDT

Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.



you sir, couldn't be more of an idiot. shame on you!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:05:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
I think the finger on the trigger is a training issue. I also think you have never been a cop in the ghetto.



Thinking ahead of facts in hand is sometimes unavoidable, but it's never terribly smart. Right or wrong, your assumptions about my personal experiences don't affect the fact that however expedient or common-sensical it may be, it is never OK to point a gun a someone unless you have reason to believe that that person, at that time, presents a threat. Nobody, cop or otherwise, has the right to assault people based on a whim, being in a bad neighborhood, the heebie-jeebies, or gut feelings. [For information, in Fla. (and at Common Law) an assault is a threat of violence communicated by word or action coupled with a present ability to carry out the threat. Pointing a gun at someone is aggravated assault (because a deadly weapon is involved).]

I am not saying that the officer wasn't smart to approach the POS with a gun pointed at him. I'm not saying I haven't done the same thing myself. I am saying that unless the POS actually presents an immediate threat, it is illegal and unethical to approach him in that manner.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:09:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.


I always find it amazing when an otherwise normal pussy of a person gains a set of balls when posting stuff on the internet...
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:15:24 PM EDT
Most Jersey cops are Jackbooted thugs. Most, Not all. In 18 years, I met one good one.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 9:16:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fullclip:

Also, ever notice that the guy with no shirt or an undershirt always goes to jail??? fullclip




Did you get that off Max-Ex? They did a show about dumb criminals. One of their indicators of dumb criminals was shirtlessness.

Yes pointing guns in the situation Mmanwithgun describes sounds extreme.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:58:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.



hmmm... well, I still like 99% of the Rangers out there.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 12:19:31 AM EDT
I've only seen 1 episode of COPS where the police being shown didn't seem like showboats or nazis. It was in Arizona. They pull these 2 guys over and ask the driver if they have anything illegal in the vehicle. Of course, they say "no". The cops proceed to find a small bag of pot. The cops tell the guys that if they had just fessed up about the pot, they would have let them go with a warning. After preaching to the civilians for a while about telling the truth to cops, they let them go anyway without even a ticket. I bet that wouldn't happen in NJ.

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Link Posted: 11/19/2003 1:14:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:
Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.



ooooh, those are some choice words.

as far as i am concerned you dont exist.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 2:08:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Cheat:


Think about all the cops who got killed on traffic stops because they didn't have their weapons out and aimed at the driver when they asked "License and registration, please."


Boo fucking hoo, I'm not going to shed a tear for any cop that gets his head blown off.





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