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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/7/2007 9:18:02 PM EST
I get to pick up my first gun this tuesday . Turned 18 on the 21st last month, then a week latter I was able to buy the gun (needed a state ID, not my Mil ID : /) . It's a Mosin Nagant 91/30. Tomorrow my step dad and I are going to Harbor Freight to pick up some stuff, rags and gloves, so I can clean and start to refinish my rifle. I have mineral spirits here, as well as a heat gun, which I'll use to melt most of the cosmoline off if I can. How hot do those normaly get. I hear I need a heat aroud 150* or so.

So with all that I have so far, is there anything else I need?

And how exactly do I go about cleaning it up and removing all the cosmoline?

Any links on how to take it apart that are easy to follow and understand?

Thanks for all the help, I know it's late to be posting this ha. Hopefully I'll be able to check it before we leave tomorrow.

Can't wait to get my first gun .

Thanks for any help.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:23:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 9:23:33 PM EST by Beltfedleadhead]
Go HERE.

There is more info here than you can possibly process.

Just be careful when asking about refinishing. They'll ban you for it. Instead, ask about CLEANING or RESTORING the rifle. It's stupid, I know.

They're REALLY touchy old bastards over there, but they've got all the info you need.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:24:07 PM EST
Clean?

www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

CR-10, a 30 cal jag, a copper brush and some patches
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:28:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 9:29:07 PM EST by HommieDaKlown]
i need to check the headspace on mine :/
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:34:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:37:57 PM EST
To the OP:

Check here

And here

While you're at it, check here and here too.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:44:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.



it will close on a round. but i've never fired it.


Link Posted: 10/7/2007 10:09:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 10:10:28 PM EST by Bob1984]

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.



it will close on a round. but i've never fired it.


i56.photobucket.com/albums/g164/hommiedaklown/P1010011.jpg


Wow, that's a nice Remington hex receiver M1891 you have there ! Yankee Engineering makes headspace gauges for 7.62x54R. Occasionally, Brownell's and Midway have them, but they are often backordered. They sometimes appear in Shotgun News and on Gunbroker.

Yankee Engineering

There's three types of gauge; Go, No-Go and Field. Ideally, the rifle bolt should close on a Go gauge and should not close on a No-Go or a Field.

Closing on a Go gauge means the rifle has at least sufficient headspace. From the sound of things, your rifle at least has that since it will chamber a round. The bolts on rifles with insufficient headspace often won't close or they will be hard to close.

If the bolt closes on a No-Go, it means your headspace is greater than it should be, but the rifle may be safe to shoot. If this happens, check with a Field gauge.

If the bolt closes on a Field gauge, then you have a big problem with excessive headspace and the rifle is unsafe.

If you can only get one gauge, get a Field; that will at least allow you to determine wether or not you have headspace that is excessive enough to be unsafe.

Surplusrifle.com article on headspace
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 10:26:09 PM EST
Mineral Spirits.....gallons of it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 10:27:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.



it will close on a round. but i've never fired it.


i56.photobucket.com/albums/g164/hommiedaklown/P1010011.jpg


Wow, that's a nice Remington hex receiver M1891 you have there ! Yankee Engineering makes headspace gauges for 7.62x54R. Occasionally, Brownell's and Midway have them, but they are often backordered. They sometimes appear in Shotgun News and on Gunbroker.

Yankee Engineering

There's three types of gauge; Go, No-Go and Field. Ideally, the rifle bolt should close on a Go gauge and should not close on a No-Go or a Field.

Closing on a Go gauge means the rifle has at least sufficient headspace. From the sound of things, your rifle at least has that since it will chamber a round. The bolts on rifles with insufficient headspace often won't close or they will be hard to close.

If the bolt closes on a No-Go, it means your headspace is greater than it should be, but the rifle may be safe to shoot. If this happens, check with a Field gauge.

If the bolt closes on a Field gauge, then you have a big problem with excessive headspace and the rifle is unsafe.

If you can only get one gauge, get a Field; that will at least allow you to determine wether or not you have headspace that is excessive enough to be unsafe.

Surplusrifle.com article on headspace


thanks for the info.


as for the rifle its dated 1917 has an SA mark and a D on the receiver there is an import mark on the barrel from CAI. the parts all seem to be matching (exept maybe the stock) with little "R" marks on the various parts. i picked it up from the lakeland gunshow a couple years ago.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 10:42:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.



it will close on a round. but i've never fired it.


i56.photobucket.com/albums/g164/hommiedaklown/P1010011.jpg


Wow, that's a nice Remington hex receiver M1891 you have there ! Yankee Engineering makes headspace gauges for 7.62x54R. Occasionally, Brownell's and Midway have them, but they are often backordered. They sometimes appear in Shotgun News and on Gunbroker.

Yankee Engineering

There's three types of gauge; Go, No-Go and Field. Ideally, the rifle bolt should close on a Go gauge and should not close on a No-Go or a Field.

Closing on a Go gauge means the rifle has at least sufficient headspace. From the sound of things, your rifle at least has that since it will chamber a round. The bolts on rifles with insufficient headspace often won't close or they will be hard to close.

If the bolt closes on a No-Go, it means your headspace is greater than it should be, but the rifle may be safe to shoot. If this happens, check with a Field gauge.

If the bolt closes on a Field gauge, then you have a big problem with excessive headspace and the rifle is unsafe.

If you can only get one gauge, get a Field; that will at least allow you to determine wether or not you have headspace that is excessive enough to be unsafe.

Surplusrifle.com article on headspace


thanks for the info.


as for the rifle its dated 1917 has an SA mark and a D on the receiver there is an import mark on the barrel from CAI. the parts all seem to be matching (exept maybe the stock) with little "R" marks on the various parts. i picked it up from the lakeland gunshow a couple years ago.


I wouldn't worry about....just shoot it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:02:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By HommieDaKlown:
i need to check the headspace on mine :/


Easy to figure out because 7.62x54R headspaces on the rim. Generally, if the headspace is out of whack with one of these rifles, the bolt either won't close on a cartridge or it will be extremely difficult to close. Headspace is easy with rimmed cartridges.



it will close on a round. but i've never fired it.


i56.photobucket.com/albums/g164/hommiedaklown/P1010011.jpg


Wow, that's a nice Remington hex receiver M1891 you have there ! Yankee Engineering makes headspace gauges for 7.62x54R. Occasionally, Brownell's and Midway have them, but they are often backordered. They sometimes appear in Shotgun News and on Gunbroker.

Yankee Engineering

There's three types of gauge; Go, No-Go and Field. Ideally, the rifle bolt should close on a Go gauge and should not close on a No-Go or a Field.

Closing on a Go gauge means the rifle has at least sufficient headspace. From the sound of things, your rifle at least has that since it will chamber a round. The bolts on rifles with insufficient headspace often won't close or they will be hard to close.

If the bolt closes on a No-Go, it means your headspace is greater than it should be, but the rifle may be safe to shoot. If this happens, check with a Field gauge.

If the bolt closes on a Field gauge, then you have a big problem with excessive headspace and the rifle is unsafe.

If you can only get one gauge, get a Field; that will at least allow you to determine wether or not you have headspace that is excessive enough to be unsafe.

Surplusrifle.com article on headspace


thanks for the info.


as for the rifle its dated 1917 has an SA mark and a D on the receiver there is an import mark on the barrel from CAI. the parts all seem to be matching (exept maybe the stock) with little "R" marks on the various parts. i picked it up from the lakeland gunshow a couple years ago.


I wouldn't worry about....just shoot it.


Yep, most likely it is just fine. Century probably checked the headspace after it was imported. The fact that the parts match is a good sign.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 12:36:35 PM EST
I read all the BOT links. Good stuff.

Right now my plan of action after I pick up my rifle tomorrow is to completly strip it down and clean all the metal parts with mineral spirits. Then I'll take a heat gun we have and go over the wood to get as much of the cosmoline out as I can, and go over it with MS. Might do this a few times.

My two biggest questions are:

1. How do I take this gun apart? Like completly apart. I want to clean every bit and nook and cranny of this thing.

2. When I'm at Big 5 tomorrow, I want to pick up at least some cleaning supplies. They have a rack with Hoppes products. One of (several choices) them is a little (not small lol) kit box thing. Comes with oil, rod, brush, patches and I think something else or other. Would something like this be good to get? They offer them in a few different caliber groups. Would .308/etc work? Or do I need something bigger? I know the Russian 7.62 is more like .310. In another thread of mine when I said I bought my first gun (this one) someone said to get a 20 gauge bore brush for it. Is that right?

If I were to piece a kit together bit by bit seperate from the pre done kits, what would I need? The kits run for about 10 bucks or so.

Thanks again for the help.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 2:05:29 PM EST
I found WD-40 and some rags work well with Cosmoline.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 2:15:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 2:17:33 PM EST by Nlinc]

Originally Posted By sfc_acid:
I read all the BOT links. Good stuff.

Right now my plan of action after I pick up my rifle tomorrow is to completly strip it down and clean all the metal parts with mineral spirits. Then I'll take a heat gun we have and go over the wood to get as much of the cosmoline out as I can, and go over it with MS. Might do this a few times.

My two biggest questions are:

1. How do I take this gun apart? Like completly apart. I want to clean every bit and nook and cranny of this thing.

2. When I'm at Big 5 tomorrow, I want to pick up at least some cleaning supplies. They have a rack with Hoppes products. One of (several choices) them is a little (not small lol) kit box thing. Comes with oil, rod, brush, patches and I think something else or other. Would something like this be good to get? They offer them in a few different caliber groups. Would .308/etc work? Or do I need something bigger? I know the Russian 7.62 is more like .310. In another thread of mine when I said I bought my first gun (this one) someone said to get a 20 gauge bore brush for it. Is that right?

If I were to piece a kit together bit by bit seperate from the pre done kits, what would I need? The kits run for about 10 bucks or so.

Thanks again for the help.

Get the .308 / ".30 cal" one, it will fit just fine.

For disassembly go HERE
It is for the M44, but it is close enough to a 91/30 that you will be able to get it apart and back together.
ETA: The Band springs will probably be a bitch to press down to get the bands off (at least mine were on my 1946 M44)
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:25:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
Get the .308 / ".30 cal" one, it will fit just fine.

For disassembly go HERE
It is for the M44, but it is close enough to a 91/30 that you will be able to get it apart and back together.
ETA: The Band springs will probably be a bitch to press down to get the bands off (at least mine were on my 1946 M44)


Thanks a lot, I'll get the .30 cal kit then. I'll probably get extra patches too, as I don't know how many come in the kit. How long should a bottle of the Hoppes last for? I also have plenty of WD40 too.

And thanks for the link too. Can you take apart the bolt too? Or is it just one piece? I want to strip EVERYTHING down and clean it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:31:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:34:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:49:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By sfc_acid:

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
Get the .308 / ".30 cal" one, it will fit just fine.

For disassembly go HERE
It is for the M44, but it is close enough to a 91/30 that you will be able to get it apart and back together.
ETA: The Band springs will probably be a bitch to press down to get the bands off (at least mine were on my 1946 M44)


Thanks a lot, I'll get the .30 cal kit then. I'll probably get extra patches too, as I don't know how many come in the kit. How long should a bottle of the Hoppes last for? I also have plenty of WD40 too.

And thanks for the link too. Can you take apart the bolt too? Or is it just one piece? I want to strip EVERYTHING down and clean it.

Yes the bolt can come apart but I warn you it is somewhat difficult and requires some patience and time. Link to instructions

Also, when I put mine back together I had to adjust the firing pin protrusion a few times to get it right (the slot in the screw didn't quite line up), I only noticed because the bolt was closing very hard after I put it back together, so I broke out the firing pin gauge. It looked ok at first glance but the gauge showed otherwise.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 3:52:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By sfc_acid:

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
Get the .308 / ".30 cal" one, it will fit just fine.

For disassembly go HERE
It is for the M44, but it is close enough to a 91/30 that you will be able to get it apart and back together.
ETA: The Band springs will probably be a bitch to press down to get the bands off (at least mine were on my 1946 M44)


Thanks a lot, I'll get the .30 cal kit then. I'll probably get extra patches too, as I don't know how many come in the kit. How long should a bottle of the Hoppes last for? I also have plenty of WD40 too.

And thanks for the link too. Can you take apart the bolt too? Or is it just one piece? I want to strip EVERYTHING down and clean it.


Just a note.....the bore on a 91/30 is usually .311 or .312. I find that a .308 is a little loose. I prefer to use a .35 bore brush to get them clean.

You do not need to take the bolt apart. Just soak it in mineral spirits and blow it dry with compressed air. Then lightly lube and you are ready to go.



Thanks for your advice and info. My rifle (picking it up tomorrow) isn't caked in cosmoline, but if you hold it, your hands are brown, so it's got plenty of cleaning to do. Eventualy I'm going to refinish the stock possibly, it depends on how it cleans up. Is it really some hideous crime/sin to stain the stock? I would do it a nice redish brown color, rather close to what they originaly looked like. If I go through all of that and completly refinish it, there are parts I noticed that would most likely need sanding. What would I do in reguards to that? I don't really know much about wood working or the like, so I don't know how to sand properly. I know I have plenty to learn, but I'm still young so don't give me a hard time, I have plenty of time to learn .

And in reguards to the .35 cal brush, I'm not sure if I saw something like that there. It's just a some what small rack with supplies and etc on it, I don't know how wide of a variety they have.

When I was first looking at the rifle, I looked down the bore with a piece of white paper in the back of the action, and the rifling "lit up" so to speak. So it looks pretty good. I'll still give it a good cleaning like on your site.

Anything else I need to know?



Also, I got the bug to make it into a sniper, or as close as a can a la "Enemy At The Gates". I love that look. How would I go about doing that properly?

Thanks for all the help guys. O_P, you're the greatest. One day if I'm in Texas I'll have to come by and shoot some guns with ya . How's that sound? Ha, teach a youngin' a thing or two about shootin.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:09:36 PM EST
sfc_acid, check out this Archive link for a bit on refinishing.

I have used both the oven cleaner method and furniture stripper (for removing old finishes) and I much preferred the oven cleaner, was quicker, and a lot easier. YMMV. I used BLO as the finish both times.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:40:04 PM EST
You're 18 and a 91/30 is your first gun, how cool is that?

Look at it this way, there is a good chance that sixty five or so years ago it was another 18 year old's "first gun" too.

These old guns can really connect one to the past.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:03:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By RSG:

Originally Posted By Beltfedleadhead:
Be sure and inspect your ammo, too. I have had a few cases crack near the base, and spray gas in my face. It's very disturbing. Always wear eye-pro, especially with older rifles.

Avoid corrosive ammo as much as possible. It's a pain to clean the salts out of the gun.


It doesn't have to be. I've followed this advice for cleaning corrosive and it's worked fine for me.


All I shoot in my mosin is corrosive surplus, and I just clean it with hoppes like any other gun. Though I think with the drier climate there is less of a chance of corrosion.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:06:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
sfc_acid, check out this Archive link for a bit on refinishing.

I have used both the oven cleaner method and furniture stripper (for removing old finishes) and I much preferred the oven cleaner, was quicker, and a lot easier. YMMV. I used BLO as the finish both times.


Thanks, that helped a bit.

So far this is my plan:

Wipe what cosmoline I can off with mineral spirits

Go over with a heat gun to get what I can out of the stock (no go on useing the oven heh )

After that I don't know where I'm at. Does that leave me with striped wood? Is the oven cleaner stuff just for removing the cosmoline? Should I use that too after the mineral spirits and heat gun? I want to take the stock down to bare wood. Then I'll have my mom help me with staining it then putting poly on it. Can you tell me about sanding? Thanks for your help.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:51:27 PM EST
It was I who mentioned the 20 gauge brush.
That is for cleaning the cosmo out of your chamber.
It will eliminate the infamous "sticky bolt"
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:06:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By sfc_acid:
O_P, you're the greatest. One day if I'm in Texas I'll have to come by and shoot some guns with ya . How's that sound? Ha, teach a youngin' a thing or two about shootin.


Come on down.

I go shooting a couple of times every week. You are welcome.


Brilliant! Now I just need an excuse to go to Texas haha. Where abouts are you? General area is fine if you don't want to get into specifics. You wouldn't mind letting me use your stuff would ya? I'd prefer not to have to travel with firearms and deal with the hassle. But the likelyhood of me getting out there anytime soon is very, very low. Would be great though.


Originally Posted By RSG:
You're 18 and a 91/30 is your first gun, how cool is that?

Very cool , but now very, VERY addicting

Look at it this way, there is a good chance that sixty five or so years ago it was another 18 year old's "first gun" too.

That's a really cool thought, but also a chilling one

These old guns can really connect one to the past.

I know, it's so amazing and fun. I'm dieing to get a C&R license, and lots of cash, and buy tons of these old rifles and refinishing/restoreing them. Where to put them all though... ahahha




I know about the corrosive ammo, and cleaning shouldn't be a problem for me. Just some windex, or normal water, then clean like normal. I will check the cases though just to stay on the safe side.


So, for now, my plan of action is:

1. Mineral Spirits

2. Heat Gun

3. Repeat 1 and 2 as needed

4. Oven cleaner to strip finish. No more than two times.

5. Sand to desired results. I need help here. What level do I start at, and where do I end? Or at least a good estimate. One post said 60 100 120 to get the bumps and imperfections out. Then it says 1000, then 0 gauge steel wool then 0000 guage. All of this is Greek to me. I don't really know anything about sand paper or steel wool. Some help here please? Thanks

6. Stain with desired color then polyurathane

Is that about it? Let me know if I'm missing anything at all.

And Nlinc, that rifle looks REALLY nice. I love that almost burned look. Would it be wrong to stain a 91/30 a blondeish color? A bit darker, but something like that. I've never seen 91/30's in blonde wood or etc, just the M44's and others like it. Do you think one could get that darkend burn look using a heat gun? Any other ideas on how to do that? It looks really nice, I'm likeing it and it's putting ideas in my head, which is never a good thing .
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:04:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 9:06:58 PM EST by Nlinc]
Sandpaper's fineness is measured in "Grit size", the lower the number, the bigger the particles and the rougher is it. You should be able to buy individual sheets from an Ace hardware or similar store.
I (personally) wouldn't start with lower than 120 (grit), but if your stock is really rough you could start at 60 or 80 and then move to 120 etc. But be careful or you may take too much wood off too quick. If you want to maintain its history/ character you might not want to sand it very smooth.

I started with 120 then progressed to 240, then 400; I didn't see a need to go with finer sand paper as I wasn't trying to get the smoothest finish, just remove some of smaller dings. Steel wool gets finer as you have more 0s I think (I'm not 100% as I haven't used it, though it is recommended for a smoother finish when oiling a stock). You should be able to get it at a hardware store as well, but I can't help you there as I haven't used it myself.

I'm not sure where the "burned" look came from, as it came that was and the finish over that portion was just like the rest of the rifle (i.e. no obvious fire damage etc). I'm not sure about adding "burn" marks but if you do try it, I suggest you get a piece of scrap wood or a 2x4 to try it out on and perfect your technique before ruining doing your stock.
I actually prefer the lighter wood, which is one of the reasons I refinished both my milsurp rifles. That and the fact that my hands would sweat while shooting the M44 and the shellac made it harder to hold onto.

Gratuitous Pre-refinish receiver pic:
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 2:18:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
Sandpaper's fineness is measured in "Grit size", the lower the number, the bigger the particles and the rougher is it. You should be able to buy individual sheets from an Ace hardware or similar store.
I (personally) wouldn't start with lower than 120 (grit), but if your stock is really rough you could start at 60 or 80 and then move to 120 etc. But be careful or you may take too much wood off too quick. If you want to maintain its history/ character you might not want to sand it very smooth.

I started with 120 then progressed to 240, then 400; I didn't see a need to go with finer sand paper as I wasn't trying to get the smoothest finish, just remove some of smaller dings. Steel wool gets finer as you have more 0s I think (I'm not 100% as I haven't used it, though it is recommended for a smoother finish when oiling a stock). You should be able to get it at a hardware store as well, but I can't help you there as I haven't used it myself.

I'm not sure where the "burned" look came from, as it came that was and the finish over that portion was just like the rest of the rifle (i.e. no obvious fire damage etc). I'm not sure about adding "burn" marks but if you do try it, I suggest you get a piece of scrap wood or a 2x4 to try it out on and perfect your technique before ruining doing your stock.
I actually prefer the lighter wood, which is one of the reasons I refinished both my milsurp rifles. That and the fact that my hands would sweat while shooting the M44 and the shellac made it harder to hold onto.

Gratuitous Pre-refinish receiver pic:
abbildung.sw-schutz.com/m44/P1010370a.jpg


Cool thanks I'll make note of that. I probably won't be burning my stock anytime soon, and I would DEFFINATLY practice on scrap before hand. I just like that look. No need to rush, got plenty of time to buy plenty of guns .
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