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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:16:34 PM EDT
What country produced the finest small arms
My vote has to go to Germany with the 98K, HKG3, STG44, MG42, MP5
My second choice is the USA with the M2HB, M16-M4,1911,
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:17:12 PM EDT
germany g36's are awesome
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:22:00 PM EDT by Beefypeanut]
Get a US firearm, or failing that, get a German one.

ETA: IBTP!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:17:59 PM EDT
A tie between Germany and the US. They spend more time and money on quality, our designs are better.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:19:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:50:11 PM EDT by LARRYG]
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M3 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:19:23 PM EDT
I think you'd have to break it down by century. For the 20th century I'd have to say Germany.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:25:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
I think you'd have to break it down by century. For the 20th century I'd have to say Germany.


agreed. definitely late 1930's to early 40's Germany. That bullet proof Mauser action, and the MG34 and MG42, the MP40,etc.
Honestly, almost everyone's weapons of that era were pretty damn good, until mass production had it's way with them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:28:53 PM EDT
Deutschland uber alles.

I'd trade every gun I won for one NIB MG42.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:35:43 PM EDT
USA.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:35:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M2 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



Ding Ding!

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:46:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M2 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



The Greasegun is the M3 (and M3A1).

The 1903 was a copy of the Mauser.

I'm inclined to give the prize to the Germans. While gun for gun I often prefer American models (1911s rule!), the Germans tend to innovate the most. For example, the MG-34 and MG-42 lead the world in terms of GPMGs, and the Germans innovated with assualt rifles, etc.

Late WW2, the Germans were using advanced infantry / tank tactics, using their halftracks as IFVs. Their infantry squad was built around the GPMG. They had reached a tactical sophistication we wouldn't reach until the 60s/70s. Late WW1 was similar, with the Germans showing great tactical innovation and sophistication. Both times, the material superiority of their enemies made advanced German tactics a mute point.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M2 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



The Greasegun is the M3 (and M3A1).

The 1903 was a copy of the Mauser.

I'm inclined to give the prize to the Germans. While gun for gun I often prefer American models (1911s rule!), the Germans tend to innovate the most. For example, the MG-34 and MG-42 lead the world in terms of GPMGs, and the Germans innovated with assualt rifles, etc.

Late WW2, the Germans were using advanced infantry / tank tactics, using their halftracks as IFVs. Their infantry squad was built around the GPMG. They had reached a tactical sophistication we wouldn't reach until the 60s/70s. Late WW1 was similar, with the Germans showing great tactical innovation and sophistication. Both times, the material superiority of their enemies made advanced German tactics a mute point.



Well crap! I figured someone would prove me wrong. I wasn't sure. What was the M2 subgun?

It still say US. Yeah, the Germans were innovative, but by the end of WWII, our guys had been carrying a semiauto as standard issue while EVERYONE else was carrying bolt guns. Granted, there were a few subguns and the various MGs as well as the Sturmgehwer (sp?), our guys still have the best standard, widely issued rifles.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:53:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:54:37 PM EDT by scottryan]
AR-15 - Standard rifle which other are judged

M2 - The finest heavy machinegun in the world, nobody as come up with anything better for 80 years

M1 Garand - Only semi rifle fielded in WW2

Thompson - First practical, reliable, submachinegun

1911

Colt Single Action Army

Browing Hi Power - Standard military sidearm of dozens of nations

Winchester Lever guns
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:55:31 PM EDT by SirDrinksAlot]
I'de have to say the swiss, but since they aren't on the list I went with good olde US of A
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:57:31 PM EDT
I think you are forgetting AustriaU.S.A. gets my vote
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:05:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:
What country produced the finest small arms
My vote has to go to Germany with the 98K, HKG3, STG44, MG42, MP5
My second choice is the USA with the M2HB, M16-M4,1911,



I'd vote the same...and don't forget HK brought us the VP70 and the P7M8...

When America tried to innovate with polymer we got the All American 2000...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:09:27 PM EDT
USA
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:11:20 PM EDT
Anyone know what Germany, Austria & Switzerland use for a sidearm now?

I'm guessing Glock for Austria since they're made there, but the others???????????
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:11:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 5:21:05 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand best ever
M1 Carbine underpowered
Thompson too heavy
M3 subgun (greasegun) cheaply made, but functional
1903 stolen design
1903A3 stolen design
1911 best design....for its time
M14 never saw major combat but gets points for being garand-like
M16 questionable early on, but made a good comeback - viable today ONLY because of private enterprise
etc



I say German.

MP40

MG38

MG42

S­tg 44


Luger

Walther P38

USA made more. Germans made better.


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:12:32 PM EDT
USA

....then everybody else.

And don't forget the best revolvers ever produced, too.

HH
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:13:01 PM EDT
I thought Garands were designed in Canada, correct me.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:14:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Melvinator2k0:
I thought Garands were designed in Canada, correct me.



American made, by a Canuck

I think that why they call it the US Rifle M1.



Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:15:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 5:16:28 PM EDT by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M3 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:19:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!



When he said "what country" and "small arms" I read it to mean state developed weapons.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:20:42 PM EDT
USA!!! 1911A1, M-1 Garand, Thompson, BAR, M-16/AR-15!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:23:30 PM EDT
My vote is america.

we got Maxims Machine gun and all the guns that spawned.
and of Course John Moses Browning and the slew of guns he came up with.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:26:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!



When he said "what country" and "small arms" I read it to mean state developed weapons.




Well actually, the M1 Garand, M16 and Thompson submachine gun were all private developed weapons which were marketed to the state. The Thompson submachine gun especially had been in civilian use for decades before the military picked it up during WW2.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:26:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:29:07 PM EDT
'Finest' is pretty subjective, so I'll go with the Russians. The AK sets the standard for reliability. The RPK was a 'SAW' when the M249 was just a glimmer in some design teams eyes. The PKM is virtually unmodified for the past few decades because it simply works.

One could outfit a mighty fine infantry unit with these gems:


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:33:23 PM EDT
MP5.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:35:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand best ever
M1 Carbine underpowered
Thompson too heavy
M3 subgun (greasegun) cheaply made, but functional
1903 stolen design
1903A3 stolen design
1911 best design....for its time
M14 never saw major combat but gets points for being garand-like
M16 questionable early on, but made a good comeback - viable today ONLY because of private enterprise
etc







My dad went into combat with the M14 and he said it never failed.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:37:29 PM EDT
One country that has been conspicuously ignored is belgium.

M240
M249
P90
FN2000
Five­seveN
SCAR
FAL
All sorts of other goodies like shotguns and such.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:39:21 PM EDT
The M240 is based off of a Browning BAR, turned upside down and adapted to belt feed. Or so I am told.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:41:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M3 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



How could you have forgotten the Ma Deuce?! Not to mention the 1919. We've got quite a few more weapons that are rather interesting as well. And I've noticed that our focus has mostly been on military arems, very little attention has been paid to sporting arms, many of which are of extremely high quality.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:42:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The M240 is based off of a Browning BAR, turned upside down and adapted to belt feed. Or so I am told.



Okay, well there's still the M249, 5.7, p90, fal, f2000, etc. etc.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:44:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Anyone know what Germany, Austria & Switzerland use for a sidearm now?

I'm guessing Glock for Austria since they're made there, but the others???????????



Germans have the USP 9MM.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:49:42 PM EDT
US.

With a close tie to Germany. Definetely WWII era and before.


I think I am one of the few who just aren't impressed with many of the more modern HK desings.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:50:19 PM EDT
Germany, Hands down. IMHO. they've had the most revolutionary ideas. Even as far as the messerschmidt and the tiger tank. But the assault rifle was an achievement none can live up to.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:51:35 PM EDT
US or Germany. They both produce great firearms.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:51:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
One country that has been conspicuously ignored is belgium.

M240
M249
P90
FN2000
Five­seveN
SCAR
FAL
All sorts of other goodies like shotguns and such.



Browning auto 5
Browning Hi-Power
Browning Super-posed

don't forget the Belgians also made all of JMBs guns following him getting in a pissing match with winchester
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:52:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
My vote is america.

we got Maxims Machine gun and all the guns that spawned.
and of Course John Moses Browning and the slew of guns he came up with.



And we dont have Gaston Glock, which gives us more points in our favor
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:57:29 PM EDT
I second Belgium. Although a lot of those were actually designed by an American.

And from out of left field what about Czechoslavakia? Bren and CZ (as original designs) and gorgeous mauser copies.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:02:00 PM EDT
Switzerland was also left out. I know all of you claim to want a Sig 55x and those are made by SwissArms.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:02:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
Germany, Hands down. IMHO. they've had the most revolutionary ideas. Even as far as the messerschmidt and the tiger tank. But the assault rifle was an achievement none can live up to.



Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:07:49 PM EDT
The tiger tank's suspension system was actually originally designed by an American, but there was no domestic interest, so the Germans ripped it off. I can't remember the guy's name, but I saw it on the History Channel, so it must be true
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
The tiger tank's suspension system was actually originally designed by an American, but there was no domestic interest, so the Germans ripped it off. I can't remember the guy's name, but I saw it on the History Channel, so it must be true



Walter Christie. He did his best work in the late twenties. The Russians thought he hung the moon (he did), so they paid him license to run his suspension on one of their first (and I think all subsequent) tanks.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:53:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
The tiger tank's suspension system was actually originally designed by an American, but there was no domestic interest, so the Germans ripped it off. I can't remember the guy's name, but I saw it on the History Channel, so it must be true



Walter Christie. He did his best work in the late twenties. The Russians thought he hung the moon (he did), so they paid him license to run his suspension on one of their first (and I think all subsequent) tanks.



Good, I'm not nuts.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:01:10 PM EDT
The answer is of course that the Czechs do...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:03:04 PM EDT
Switzerland, no question about it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:05:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:07:38 PM EDT by CaptSchofield]

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M3 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14<­BR>M16
etc



How could you have forgotten the Ma Deuce?! Not to mention the 1919. We've got quite a few more
weapons that are rather interesting as well. And I've noticed that our focus has mostly been on military arems, very little attention has been paid to sporting arms, many of which are of extremely high quality.



Browning designs are the most copied throughout the world in the 20th century

Lets not forget the Browning BAR. It was made at the end of WW1 and got us through WW2, Korea, and early Vietnam! even the Belgiums copied it in 7x57
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:11:56 PM EDT
I am surprised that the belgians are so far behind.
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