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Posted: 8/30/2005 9:13:21 PM EDT
What lessons can we take from this true SHTF senario in N.O?

With the 2 guys and the AK incident on the police station, the complete breakdown of society as we know it, no services, no police, no fire dept, no clean water, no electricity, basically you are on your own like those still in affected areas.

I think a few are.

Keep some potable water and food around.
Keep some form of firearm for protection...shotgun, rifle, pistol...whatever.
Stock up on batteries, for a cell phone and a flashlight.
Get the hell out when you have the opportunity

Anything else?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:16:11 PM EDT

Anything else?



I can think of a couple:

1. Avoid living in a shithole like New Orleans
2. Stay away from high risk areas...like the Gulf Coast
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:16:24 PM EDT
yes have some sort of plan( relatives friends etc) where you can go a few hundred miles away from home for whatever reason or at least scout out some sort of area where you could camp for awhile
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:17:00 PM EDT
Dont build in flood plains or below sea level close to the ocean.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:18:10 PM EDT
uh, the only real lesson is be able to take care of yourself and your family by having the means to LEAVE an area if their is pending natural disaster. No half-competant person would ever put themselves in the situation of being in N.O. right now having to deal with the aftermath.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:19:27 PM EDT
Below sea level near the coast is a dumb place for a city. The French built New Orleans.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:19:29 PM EDT
Learn how to make boobytraps
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:20:45 PM EDT
Leave well before your local government tells you to.

Know what you are going to take and what you are not going to mind being destroyed/looted.

I think that Fox Labs grenade would do nicely to deter looters at your property though - or at least give you some screening to set up your bipod.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:21:09 PM EDT
No government shelters - ever.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:23:46 PM EDT
When you see a hurricane with 4 days advance notice....get out da way. There is no way to fully prepare for something as unpredictable as a cat 5 hurricane. Just pack up your shit and go visit relatives, go to the beach, whatever....just go.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:25:41 PM EDT
Most people could not leave. They had no money no car and no hope. I think Its mostly how they live to blame. No education no work and the goc. does most for them. +1 on not living in that area. Im here for school and will get out as soon as pos.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 9:28:21 PM EDT by GotGuns]

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
Most people could not leave. They had no money no car and no hope. I think Its mostly how they live to blame. No education no work and the goc. does most for them. +1 on not living in that area. Im here for school and will get out as soon as pos.



The people that couldn't leave are likely the ones that couldn't afford to prepare for the SHTF anyways, so they are exempt from my comment.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:27:49 PM EDT
Get the hell outta Dodge before the storm hits.


If you can't get clear (like typhoons we had every year in Taiwan), sit tight, have some supplies of fresh water and food.

If you can't get clear and the natives are restless, shoot anything that moves that isn't readily ID'd as LEO or NG.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:29:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GotGuns:

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
Most people could not leave. They had no money no car and no hope. I think Its mostly how they live to blame. No education no work and the goc. does most for them. +1 on not living in that area. Im here for school and will get out as soon as pos.



The people that couldn't leave are likely the ones that couldn't afford to prepare for the SHTF anyways, so they are exempt from my comment.

Like I said, be able to provide for and take care of yourself and your family. These people put themselves in the situations they are in.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:38:33 PM EDT
Have a bug-out trailer packed and ready to go. Have a means to haul said bugout trailer.

The trailer should be a fully-enclosed model that can be easily locked. The trailer should have its own spare. It would be helpful if the tires on the trailer could be used on your bugout vehicle. A modified pop-up camper or similar may meet your needs.

Leave room in the bugout trailer for packing last minute items, such as irreplaceable items from your home (wedding pictures, baby pictures, critcial paperwork, backups, etc).

In the trailer include typical disaster supplies; camping supplies, food for everyone (pets included), water, hygiene supplies, tools, vehicle recovery stuff, etc, etc. The trailer should be kept loaded during elevated threat levels and the supplies should be rotated as needed.

When the SHTF, hitch up the trailer, throw your most prized possessions in there, and GTFO.

Have a plan A, a plan B, and a plan C as far as bugout.


If you're going to be forced to bugout and become a refugee, you might as well do it in style. Stay the hell out of the shelter camps unless you have no choice.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:49:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 9:52:52 PM EDT by Tromatic]
Stay well away from public shelters were all your preperations count for nothing.

If you are in a shelter, tolerate absolutely no behavior that jeapordizes either the shelter or it's occupants. However, that assumes you have some means to enforce that which is unlilkely in a .gov shelter, since they have the guns.

Be ready at a moments notice to bug out and leave everything you don't need behind.

Realize that you WILL loose everything, either due to the disaster/bomb/looters.

Keep your preparations low profile. Do not be the only house for miles with lights, music and BBQ smoke.

If you have to shoot a mob member, pre prepared (and able to, with luck) kill them all.

ETA: Our civilization hangs by a mighty fine thread, and it does not take much to revert to the animals most of them (us) are.





Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:49:37 PM EDT
Don't trust the NG or police to protect your property while you are gone.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:50:46 PM EDT
Put on a belt before looting.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:05:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Dont build in flood plains or below sea level close to the ocean.



One would think that would go without saying.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:10:09 PM EDT
Just think.

There are plenty of members of this board who lived in that flood plain, and in other high-risk disaster areas all over the continental US.

And we're supposedly the smarter ones.


<crouched down in Mid-Ohio, where natural disasters are few and far between, unless you count losses to Michigan>
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:11:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Just think.

There are plenty of members of this board who lived in that flood plain, and in other high-risk disaster areas all over the continental US.

And we're supposedly the smarter ones.


<crouched down in Mid-Ohio, where natural disasters are few and far between, unless you count losses to Michigan>



Don't you get tornados?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:20:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
Most people could not leave. They had no money no car and no hope.



$50 would have bought them a bus ticket to any city in the United States.

Right about now, they could be applying for their welfare check in Seattle, Minneapolis or Bangor.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:31:36 PM EDT
1. Be prepared to swing either way, staying put or leaving.
2. Have some cash around.
3. Five or ten gallons of gas wouldn't hurt. At 25 MPG that gives you a range of 250 miles, which would have probably gotten you out of the severe weather region withoug having to worry about gas stations.
4. Familiarity with the roads out of the area, including the non-obvious ones. Have some old-fashioned paper maps handy. There were lots of traffic jams on the way out of NO.
5. Think ahead about likely road closures. Is the highway you're planning on taking out likely to be flooded? Bridge out?
6. Have a destination in mind that is likely to be out of range of the disaster. Luckily one tank of gas gets you a long ways in this day and age.
7. Be prepared to live there for a few weeks if necessary.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:37:25 PM EDT
And, oh yeah, have a gun around:


In Uptown, one the few areas that remained dry, a bearded man patrolled Oak Street near the boarded-up Maple Leaf Bar, a sawed-off shotgun slung over his shoulder. The owners of a hardware store sat in folding chairs, pistols at the ready.

Uptown resident Keith Williams started his own security patrol, driving around in his Ford pickup with his newly purchased handgun. Earlier in the day, Williams said he had seen the body of a gunshot victim near the corner of Leonidas and Hickory streets.

...
Like-minded Art Depodesta sat on the edge of a picnic table outside Cooter Brown’s Bar, a chrome shotgun at his side loaded with red shells.

"They broke into the Shell station across the street," he said. "I walked over with my 12-gauge and shot a couple into the air."

The looters scattered, but soon after, another man appeared outside the bar in a pickup truck armed with a pistol and threatened Depodesta.

"I told him, ‘Listen, I was in the Army and I will blow your ass off,’" Depodesta said. "We’ve got enough trouble with the flood."


Doesn't hurt to have some like-minded friends.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:55:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
1. Be prepared to swing either way, staying put or leaving.
2. Have some cash around.
3. Five or ten gallons of gas wouldn't hurt. At 25 MPG that gives you a range of 250 miles, which would have probably gotten you out of the severe weather region withoug having to worry about gas stations.
4. Familiarity with the roads out of the area, including the non-obvious ones. Have some old-fashioned paper maps handy. There were lots of traffic jams on the way out of NO.

5. Think ahead about likely road closures. Is the highway you're planning on taking out likely to be flooded? Bridge out?
6. Have a destination in mind that is likely to be out of range of the disaster. Luckily one tank of gas gets you a long ways in this day and age.
7. Be prepared to live there for a few weeks if necessary.



Had EMS friends in NO Sunday. East bound traffic backed up like hell, northbound was even worse. NO gas for nearly 200 miles, and only then they convinced some lady to sell them gas because they were in marked EMS vehicles. It took them 6 hours over there last week, and 15 hours back.

Might be better to prepare for more than that.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:11:49 PM EDT
What have I learned?

Two weeks ago the Zombie SHTF threads always had that "it'll never happen" aura about them.

Obviously not so, and this is one fucking hurricane.

"Certain" people with seem to take every opportunity to lapse into anarchy


I read a post about the fact that civilization hangs by a thin line and it doesn't take much and people turn back into savages.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:17:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
What have I learned?

Two weeks ago the Zombie SHTF threads always had that "it'll never happen" aura about them.

Obviously not so, and this is one fucking hurricane.

"Certain" people with seem to take every opportunity to lapse into anarchy


I read a post about the fact that civilization hangs by a thin line and it doesn't take much and people turn back into savages.



Don't believe your lying eyes.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:24:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
What have I learned?

Two weeks ago the Zombie SHTF threads always had that "it'll never happen" aura about them.

Obviously not so, and this is one fucking hurricane.

"Certain" people with seem to take every opportunity to lapse into anarchy


I read a post about the fact that civilization hangs by a thin line and it doesn't take much and people turn back into savages.



Don't believe your lying eyes.



Which newscast are you watching?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 11:30:23 PM EDT by PaDanby]
Be prepared to get up and go. (Hurricanes give warnings usually of a few days, tornadoes and earthquakes usually don't)

Be prepared to sit it out in place. (These are not contradictory, ask the guys in the Gulf States on the decision process they go through every storm heading their way)

Be able to defend yourself.

Minimum of 2 weeks supplies.

Build a secure storage area for your valuables that you can't take with you. We can't all take all our guns, cameras, pictures videos of the kids, etc

For the mastermind that suggested a $50 bus ticket, where you going to find several thousand buses?

Decide what's worth defending, somebody else's property or your family?

Remember the .gov can't protect everybody and everything, expecting that to happen is like waiting for the Easter Bunny.

BTW a lesson CA learned about 30 years ago, and the AF about 15 was that some assets are counted on by several claimants. How many guys in NG MP units are already LEOs? When the airlines have agreements to provide planes and pilots to the AF in emergencies, how many pilots are already in the Guard or Reserve? etc
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:28:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By swingset:
Just think.

There are plenty of members of this board who lived in that flood plain, and in other high-risk disaster areas all over the continental US.

And we're supposedly the smarter ones.


<crouched down in Mid-Ohio, where natural disasters are few and far between, unless you count losses to Michigan>



Don't you get tornados?



Rarely. I can count on one hand the number of touchdowns in my area in the last 10 years, and none resulted in loss of life.

Compared to hurricane alley, I'd say we're relatively bulletproof.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:50:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 11:50:33 PM EDT by MikeG23]

Originally Posted By napalm:
Have a bug-out trailer packed and ready to go. Have a means to haul said bugout trailer.



I wouldn't want no stinking trailer slowing me down.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:02:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
3. Five or ten gallons of gas wouldn't hurt. At 25 MPG that gives you a range of 250 miles, which would have probably gotten you out of the severe weather region withoug having to worry about gas stations.





Had EMS friends in NO Sunday. East bound traffic backed up like hell, northbound was even worse. NO gas for nearly 200 miles, and only then they convinced some lady to sell them gas because they were in marked EMS vehicles. It took them 6 hours over there last week, and 15 hours back.

Might be better to prepare for more than that.



Well, five or ten gallons in Jerry cans in addition to what you have in your tank. That should be enough to get you
at least 200+ miles. The problem is of courset that gas doesn't store well, and it's a fire hazard to keep a lot of
it around. You'd have to rotate through your jerry cans.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:04:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
3. Five or ten gallons of gas wouldn't hurt. At 25 MPG that gives you a range of 250 miles, which would have probably gotten you out of the severe weather region withoug having to worry about gas stations.





Had EMS friends in NO Sunday. East bound traffic backed up like hell, northbound was even worse. NO gas for nearly 200 miles, and only then they convinced some lady to sell them gas because they were in marked EMS vehicles. It took them 6 hours over there last week, and 15 hours back.

Might be better to prepare for more than that.



Well, five or ten gallons in Jerry cans in addition to what you have in your tank. That should be enough to get you
at least 200+ miles. The problem is of courset that gas doesn't store well, and it's a fire hazard to keep a lot of
it around. You'd have to rotate through your jerry cans.



Exactly what I do. I have a minimum of four that I rotate through.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:06:34 AM EDT
have a boat and a chainsaw

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:12:48 AM EDT
Maybe the survival forum isn't so crazy after all.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:15:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Maybe the survival forum isn't so crazy after all.



+1

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:45:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeG23:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Have a bug-out trailer packed and ready to go. Have a means to haul said bugout trailer.



I wouldn't want no stinking trailer slowing me down.




Yep, because you'll be able to drive at high-speeds through the bumper-to-bumper traffic clogging all exit routes.


Yep, because you'll do yourself and your family a whole lot of good if you wreck because you're driving too fast. Don't want no stinking trailer slowing you down.


Sure don't want the extra supplies and fuel that a trailer could give you slowing you down. Hope you make it out of the zone before you run dry.


Have a nice day.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 1:05:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 1:06:49 AM EDT by MikeG23]
Well I posted that in jest, but I'll play along anyway.

A trailer is going to make your fuel economy decrease, who knows if your going to be able to get gas or not. I wouldn't be so worried about my "stuff" in such a situation. I would certainly try to save what I could, but I wouldn't pull a trailer.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 1:10:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 12:56:07 PM EDT by Stealth]
So, How far up the Mississippi can you get with a small Zodiac style boat with a good motor before you had to get out and carry it? Are there any dams or falls that someone would need to carry a small boat over?

With enough fuel you can go all day long on one of those if you needed... and then go all day long again if you were carrying extra fuel, water and food.

Obviously before the big winds and rains hit.

Just curious. Seems like the roads out of a major city will be screwed given an emergency in the making.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:15:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 2:17:34 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Maybe the survival forum isn't so crazy after all.



+2


We have those BOB threads, organize regional campouts, and share experience so that we can 'git er done' when it matters. Not a whole lot of tinfoil in the SF forum...

Dave
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:31:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeG23:
Well I posted that in jest, but I'll play along anyway.

A trailer is going to make your fuel economy decrease, who knows if your going to be able to get gas or not. I wouldn't be so worried about my "stuff" in such a situation. I would certainly try to save what I could, but I wouldn't pull a trailer.



Three 5-gallon cans of gas in a trailer will MORE than make up the mileage loss in pulling it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:36:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
No government shelters - ever.



+ 1
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Maybe the survival forum isn't so crazy after all.



+1




+2
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:51:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Maybe the survival forum isn't so crazy after all.



+1




+2


+3 <-------POST WHORE
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:50:34 AM EDT
The big lesson that was once again presented is that :

You are responsible for your own safety and security and that of your family.

Look at this mess: people that were unprepared are screwed; people who went into the Superdome are screwed; the government cannot guarantee your security or existence. Just like in every disaster.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:20:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:21:18 AM EDT by PerryF]
"ETA: Our civilization hangs by a mighty fine thread, and it does not take much to revert to the animals most of them (us) are."

So true.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:26:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zip06:
The big lesson that was once again presented is that :

You are responsible for your own safety and security and that of your family.

Look at this mess: people that were unprepared are screwed; people who went into the Superdome are screwed; the government cannot guarantee your security or existence. Just like in every disaster.


I'll give a big "Fucking A Skippy" to that one !
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:42:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:54:27 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
I live in Charleston SC so I am watching this closely


I made the follow observations:

I need to get my CCW and a good holster
I need to check the status of my grab and go bag (AR15, Glock, and 870 mags and ammo)
I need to check my water purifier and camp stove to make sure they work
I need 5 gallon gas and water storage cans
I need to look for an emergency generator again
I need to add exterior lights to the house
I need a boat
I need an emergency radio
I need FLOOD INSURANCE
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 12:03:05 PM EDT by MikeG23]

Originally Posted By DDiggler:
Three 5-gallon cans of gas in a trailer will MORE than make up the mileage loss in pulling it.



This is true, however, I could just as easily throw three 5 gallon cans in the bed of my truck.

People will do what they will do I simply would not pull a trailer. If I knew the area well enough I might attempt to detour the roads which wouldn't fair well with a trailer. I don't know if that is even possible with this situation, but where I live it would be possible. If you guys want to pull a trailer though then go for it I'm not knocking it just saying that I wouldn't do it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:49:05 PM EDT
A used travel trailer (or even a small motorhome) could be an excellent SHTF investment. You'd have refrigeration, cooking facilities, a working bathroom, 30-50 gallons of fresh water, 20-60 pounds of propane, enough 12 volt power to operate basic lights, TV, radio for up to several weeks (and that's not even considering if you have a genset or solar panels installed), heat (and maybe even air conditioning), a clean, dry place to sleep; plus storage for most of your valuables. Well worth the slight loss of fuel mileage, IMO.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:53:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
Most people could not leave. They had no money no car and no hope. I think Its mostly how they live to blame. No education no work and the goc. does most for them. +1 on not living in that area. Im here for school and will get out as soon as pos.



Do you have any idea what a one way Greyhound ticket costs. I'd wager PLENTY of those who "couldn't" leavve are wearing designer footwear, have cellphones, cable tv, etc.

Failing that, do you know how far you could walk/hitch in 5 days?
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