What are we going to do with bush and all of his people when we find out that HE knew that 9/11 was going to happen?

Are we all just goin to sit around?
What can we do??

Am I jumping the gun? [:(!]

I mean this in all sincerity:

ARE YOU KIDDING OR ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Yep! Lets not blame the Bushman, doesnt solve anything. If you feel like blaming someone, blame a liberal! the root of all evil.

Bush is doing an astounding job considering he had to follow one of the biggest POS presidents.  Klinton should have nipped this terrorist thing in the bud a long time ago, but he was too busy sticking cigars up someone else's business.

The same thing we did to Clinton when it was found out he has at least 1 or 2 chances to get Bin Laden for free...absolutely nothing.

I-i-is that you, Hon. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA)?

You go, girl!

Eric The(TheRestOfUsWillRemainOnThisPlanet!)Hun[>]:)]

Off with his head!!!

J/K, but yes I'm serious about bush.
I guess when I said bush, I really meant everyone thats part of the decision making in our great white house.

I guess you guys don't agree that somewhere a group of people that make dicisions knew about what was going to happen, and didn't adjust accordingly, and in this case, I mean didn't adjust at all, not even .01%!

Edited to say, "damn Hun, you have over 7000 posts now!!"

assuming that youre saying that GWB and his staff knew al-queda was going to attack the wtc with hijacked airliners, if true, then i agree GWB should go far away for a long time.

however, i think it's extremely unlikely that he knew any more than vague rumors of terrorist attacks and/or hijackings on or around 9/11. i doubt anything meaningful could have been done.

intelligence failure? absolutely. sacrificing american citizens for unknown reasons? not likely.

yes, youre jumping the gun.

Jumping the gun on a Firearm site is a bad thing I guess![8)]

That is a gun you will never get to jump MSHO45; Bush is doing an Outstanding job.

Ben

[digress]
I think people have misunderstood those reports.  From what has been written about them, they all were training for "martyrdom missions" and were ready to give their lives up in Jihad;  it's just that some weren't told "today's the day" until they were at the airports.
[/digress]

I don't think he's everything he could be as Commander in Chief, but do you seriously believe that if Bush had hard, verifiable intel that terrorist X was going to attack target Y by method Z at date and time AA, he would fail to act or alert anyone?

What he had was a report of a rumor that a group had plans at some stage in development to hijack planes of no particular airline from no particular airport on no particular date. How do you defend against that? Just like the reports that terrorists might attack shopping malls or apartment buildings. How do you respond? Do you want the entire nation alerted to ThreatCon Alpha everytime some shifty-eyed, smelly guy in a headscarf makes a threat out of the corner of his mouth? Then we get the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation, where no one worried anything coming out of the NSC because no bridges or apartment buildings or malls were attacked the last twelve times they warned us.

It's an impossible game to win by those rules.

Hmmm, I've got an idea!  [thinking]

Why don't we just sit back and wait until we hear the whole story before we jump to conclusions and delusions about "what're we gonna hafta do wif Bush an' his folk".

I feel certain that the extent of Mr. Bush's knowledge was that terrorists were planning to hijack planes.  Until September 11th, the majority of plane hijackings were because A) the terrorists wanted certain demands met or B) the terrorists wanted to get out of or into a particular country.  In the former, the planes sat on the tarmac.  In the latter, they landed at a different destination than planned.  It wasn't until 9/11 that the terrorists thought up and executed choice C) crash hijacked planes into buildings.

Are we all just going to sit around?  I am, until I hear the last word of it.

What can we do?  I've already stated that i'm just going to listen and wait.  Do what you wish, mind the consequences.

Are you jumping the gun?  Buddy, in my opinion, you are standing in front of the barrel...

You hear that?  It's the sounds of liberals spreading misinformation to the masses, feeding the tinfoilers with the seeds of the grandest conspiracy theory of [b]ALL TIME[/b]!  Next time you hear or read a news story, pay closer attention to the wording.  You'll notice the loaded questions, the out of context reports, the massive and sensless speculation on the part of everyone [b]WITH THE EXCEPTION[/b] of those who would actually know.  Then, you'll look past the rhetoric, and likely end up wondering why the hell you ever posted this thread.

the_reject

I see, more Monday AM quarterbacking.

You CANNOT look at Pre Sept 11 warnings without knowing Sept 11 happenned, but the key is to realize that you see everything differently now.

TO say someone getting one (OF HUNDREDS) vague hijacking warning should have forseen what actually happenned is ludicrous.

Hijacking previously meant cold pizza for the passengers and an attempted prisoner trade.  Fatalities?  MINIMAL, but present.

So he got a single warning about a desire to hijack by Al Queda.

You stretch that to :"HE knew Sept 11 was going to happen."  

You think he knew from that warning that they were going to grab planes and use them to take out buildings?

You have no idea of the amount of raw intelligence we gather all day, every day.

They key is not getting intelligence, the key is figuring out what is useful, what is true, etc.

Lastly, let's just say you got to the airport on Sept 10 and find eight hour lines and your bags turned out for nail clippers.  So does EVERY traveller in every airport in America.

You think that would fly?

Get real.

Before any of YOU jump the gun about me, I'm merly starting a conversation, no not trolling dammit, about some "what if's"

I know the media has mis-construded about every fact, I just wanted to see how you guys felt about all of this.

No harm, really. [;)]

Into the mud....first point---Bush is doing an excellent job? Quote"We are going to get Bin-Laden" and where is he? The strongest nation on earth can't find one guy? And almost daily restrictions of liberty and freedom...
Now for the rest of the point---Bush and 9/11
Some of you are under the imprerssion that Bush knows all and is told all....ain't so. Did someone know? Yep....one of the people that knew is in jail in Canada and his warning about Sept 11 is in evidence in court...before 9/11.
And if you know about Echelon..etc..then you know that someone knew...now we just got to find out who. Are we forgetting that their was an agent with the team that blew up the WTC the first time?

What am I going to do?

I'm gonna vote for him again in 2004!!!!

Keving67

Well, their will always be a pointy-headed little group that will think that GWB was in on the tragedy from the get-go.

You know, to push up those military/industrial complex stocks. For the financial gain of his friends, you know.

Sure, he committed high treason against the US.

Sure, why not?

BTW, did you say the same things about Clinton when he actually did sacrifice the security of the United States for the Doral Corporation and other campaign contributors to the DNC?

'Cause that treason is pretty verifiable.

If anyone wanted to verify it. But they don't!

Clinton owes GWB big time for that!

Eric The(ButIfTheDEMOSKeepThisUp,MaybeGWBWillChangeHisMind)Hun[>]:)]

The fact that Bush couldn't have known what was going to happen isn't going to stop the democrats from trying to hang it all on him. I'm afraid that the "United We Stand" phase has passed and now they're going to use this to their advantage as much as they can.

"WHEN we find out"???

Newsflash numbnuts - There's NO EVIDENCE that even the 19 hijackers knew the exact dates, flights or targets of their actions until just a few days before 9-11. So how would Bush know this????

But since you've already decided that Bush knew why don't YOU tell US what YOU'RE going to do with you newfound knowledge of Bush's involvement in this coverup??

[b]MurderSHO45[/b], you've got almost 400 posts and yet, defying even random chance, you have YET to post even a single rational thought. Quite a streak of idiocy you've got going. [whacko]

Mcallen are you proposing that "19" people got on planes sleepwalking? Then why did sept 11 happen? "19" people having a bad day? Somebody somewhere knew and where is the white paper promised on Sept 29 about the facts?

This was supposed to be the main point of my post, what do WE do if WE find out the pres. (for example) knew about this, I mean we're finding out things almost daily about things that clinton did that reflects how bad things are going right now.

What can WE do as civilians? (or even as enlisted men)

If you Bush lovers (I like the guy and the job he's doing as well) think that your beloved bush isn't guilty of similar (ok maybe not as bad as things clinton did) your all wrong!!

I usually don't go out on a limb and talk in this way on this board, I'm not big on people saying things aren't right, and not having a reasonable solution, but the whole government/president hiding stuff- not telling the truth, has really bothered me lately, and its an area where I don't have any Idea on a solution.

Sure maybe if I walked in a president's shoes for a day, maybe I could understand why they do the things they do, but I haven't done that, nor will I ever.

In the mean time I would like to know what I can do as a civilian to fight back against this.

Sure, I can vote, but if I want an apple, but my choices are 2 bananas, what do I do?? [>:/]

Nothing...because he did NOT know.

You'll be happy you have a choice and pick the least rotten banana.  [:D]

the_reject

Hound-

The Macallan CERTAINLY does not need backup on this point, but I think I will make some observations, anyway.

"Somewhere someone knew?!?!"

That equates to GWB knew??!?!

Mac WROTE that the actual hijackers KNEW they were going to hijack planes, they just didn't know WHEN, or WHICH planes, until "A few days before the hijacking."

Do you know anything about operational security?
If I or anyone halfway competent were running that op, NONE of the teams would know anything about any other team, even its existance, let alone its objectives or timetable.

You do realize that these hijackers wanted to keep their plan a secret,right?

It's not like they ran the plan past Bush for approval.

So if we assume the enemy is doing it's best to conceal its true objective, what makes you think anyone on our side knew enough to put it together?

I sincerely would like you to answer my questions, because this frigging baffles me.  

Please don't fall for all the liberal crap that's being dredged up.  They couldn't make their vague accusations that Bush was behind the Enron collapse stick, so they're just trying on a new scandal.  This too will fall by the wayside when nothing sticks.

Horseshit!!  He's in a quagmire and can't get out.  He better declare all out war on the muslims soon or he'll be eaten alive by the savvy Dems.  If he was projecting an image of toughness and ability to handle this crisis without being the hypocrite he's being, the Dems wouldn't have smelled the blood in the water.  Not unlike Bill Clinton, George Bush never did a damn thing in his life, but be a snotty-nose rich kid.  Everything this man has on his resume, his father provided it for him and his father before him!  I pray every night that Alzheimers will have a cure when I wake up.  Oh how I miss the "Great Communicator"!

No. Just that SOME weren't given specifics until a few days before, and SOME had no details of the mission at all.

THAT'S how you avoid detection.

THAT'S why their "cells" were successful.

Yes, even [red][b]I[/b][/red] read on Drudge in July that "something big" was being planned for the fall.

That means nothing though.

A few days ago there were news reports that the airlines received a dozen warnings between July and September from the Gov't. Vague leads naturally yielded vague responses.


Look, we got sucker-punched, plain and simple. Why can't you get that through your tinfoil hat??

So true!
Whats a white male w/ strong northern European roots and a good salary to do!? [;)]

O well, I guess until they take away my AR, I'll sit back on the sidelines with my banana and act like I'm making a difference.  

Yes, yes, you people are seeing the light of my post!

When do we stop turning the other way?

The democrats are trying to throw everything and anything they can at Bush including the kitchen sink.  You thing they are doing this because they smell blood?  I don't think so.  They are doing it because they have ZERO issues to attack him with.  They are trying anything they can because if they don't they will get their asses handed to them in november.  At this point in time, they are really looking like idiots anyway.  I guess you have fallen for their party line, huh?

I dunno, sit around and get shafted by the more rotten banana?  I'm open to suggestions...  [;)]



That's a good monkey...  Eat your banana...  [:D]

the_reject

Ding ding ding!!!

We have a winner!

the_reject

nope I let shrub off the hook..but if the Gov't overall is this clueless with the tools at their disposal, then we need to make the Boy scouts the new intelligence agency---echelon, carnivore, satellites, agents....and the feds knew only rumours? Once again I will refer you to the 1993 WTC bombing, where in the court transcripts, the Feds admitted that they had a man on the inside and still didn't stop it.

I've always come out as no fan of Bush, but I agree with the opinion that he didn't know. I'm once again embarrassed as a citizen that the dems are seizing the opportunity for their partisan gain.

That said, I think Bush is a naive leader. he has far too much loyalty to his staff, and they're not serving him well. He can't afford to keep taking the counsel of the current underlings. A housecleaning is in order.

Furthermore, this matter is indicative to many people of the kind of closed government Bush is running. The memory of public energy meetings exclusively with lobbyists for Enron and the subsequent illogical claims of executive privilege is still in people's minds. This administration has to start dropping it's paternalistic attitude toward the American people. Voters don't like to be told "go to bed and let us take care of matters."

I applaud his loyalty to his staff, but Bush has to clean house. The Repubs have lost the senate, and they're only ahead by 6 in the House. Mid-terms are coming and the Dems are traditionally strong in those elections.

It's grossly unfair, to say the least, to blame the President for 9/11, but warnings were there and the ball was dropped on his watch. It goes far beyond "a gap in interpartmental cooperation" when 2,800+ people lost their lives and 270,000,000 people now live with the knowledge that they, too, can easily be next.

Bottom line: If Bush doesn't clean house and do something to clear the perception that he is running a closed, secretive government, this nation is looking at a three-year lame duck and nothing is going to get done.

I know that if Clinton was in office, many of you would call for his head over the recent revelations. Do you think Clinton would have done nothing if he had known? Do you think any President from any party would have done nothing? My point is political corruption and rot begins when citizens are so happy to be gone with one administration that they're willing to excuse the next one. As free thinkers and voters, no one should get a free ride from us. Don't be so vehement in blaming Bush, but don't be so vigorous in his defense either. This has just started.

Is that why Jeb Bush is sweating his dick off down in Florida.  Have you guys been asleep for the past year?  I am as Republican as they get.  Well, except I'm not one of these Christian morons who BuFu alter boys and cover up titties in the JD's press room.  The Dems have GWB afraid to do a damn thing!!  We will lose the Senate out-right this November and will barely hang on to The House. How 'bout our judges boys???  he can't even get those through!!  Ronald Reagan got many judges through Congress when both Houses were controlled by the Dems.  Some of you need to look close at your rich-boy HeeeWO!  Tell me something, what steps has GWB taken toward extending our rights as gun owners and what about abortion restrictions, that all you religious zealots thought he was going to make tougher. Hell, John McCain spanked Bush's ass with the campaign finance bill.  We got fooled and FUCKED!!!      

Buddha,

I think Clinton was a major ass, but I don't think he would even do what Bush is being accused of doing.  I don't think any American citizen would do nothing if they knew something like 9/11 was going to happen.  I think it is very sleazy to even consider it, and the people who bring this kind of crap up should have their heads examined.  If the democrats are behind this, I hope it knocks their political aspirations into hell.

Ok we got two camps here---one bunch thinks shrub walks on water---not....we have had this discussion and the only positive they can find is that he is better than gore...the other camp thinks he sucks and is a blind stupid puppet of his handlers...nope...he can chose his own beer and can match his socks. Now did shrub know anything? Nope the big kids had sent him off to Fl to read to children. He is pretty well insulated from the firestorm because he didn't know it was coming. Are we settled on that?
Now for serious questions
Warning from prisoner in canada--ignored
AA Missiles----just for props?
NO intercepts?
1000 jews killed ooops 341 killed oops 112 killed  oops just 5?
Previous administration question---bin laden in custody-----clinton "let him go"
Transponders turned off?
"19" hijackers---names not on passenger lists and a couple of them still alive

the list goes on and on and NO one from the federal level will answer questions and they make it worse by saying things like we are going to get bin laden and then saying well he's not priority number one

Got issues with religion, huh?  What does that have to do with anything in this thread?  Got issues with people with money too?  What does that have to do with anything in this thread.  You sound like you are close to being a closet liberal, as your hate and jealousy is shining through.

I bet if Gore had been elected in 2000 you would just be happy to piss and moan about how bad stuff is.  The whitehouse has taken the viewpoint that the 2nd amendment applies to individuals.  That is something that hasn't occurred in decades.

Also, please provide a link that Jeb is sweating his dick off?  Haven't heard that one yet.  Who is gonna beat him and how?