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Posted: 5/8/2001 9:04:02 AM EDT
I am thinking of buying one to shoot some of this 7.62x39 ammo I traded for and was looking at the SAR1. What is the better rifle to buy? I want to spend less than $650.00 . Who makes the best, Russian, Romanian, any others that are good? Thanks
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:22:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:23:29 AM EDT
The SAR-1 is one of the best shooters I have ever owned. It shoots everything I feed it no matter the quality of ammo, mags, etc. and without a single failure. I would highly recommend them for the money. Above that, the Bulgarian Milled AK's are awesome rifles as well. They run about $500 and I've seen them sell at the gun shows up to $650. Then the Norinco Mac-90 is somewhere in between but they have the butthole stock. Good luck, you can't go wrong with any of them. Just be sure not to get a Heese or B West receiver. You'll know, it will be stanped on the side if it's one of these.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:26:58 AM EDT
I have a SAR 1 and love it. And, it costs much less than what you are willing to spend. They can still be bought for around $300. With what is left over, you could still buy alot of ammo.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:31:00 AM EDT
What do you all think about the Romanian WASRs?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:31:09 AM EDT
To clarify, BWest also imported Chinese guns. The sucky BWest guns are those that also have "Made in USA" stamped on them. A BWest gun that was "Made in China" is as good as all the other Chinese guns. The "Made in USA" BWest problem is that the subcontractor that built the receivers failed to heat treat them properly. The guns are not dangerous to shoot as the trunion takes all the abuse. The result of this problem is that the gun will have a short life span as the rivets may elongate their holes and will losen up over time! One of my preban AKs: [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=48086113&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:38:01 AM EDT
How much are preban AKs?I am looking at the SAR1 that gunsmoke carries. Are these worth a crap?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:50:57 AM EDT
I think you want the SAR2 that shoots the 7.62x39. I have one and love it. I understand the Romanian version is among the best made. Mine shoots very well. The only complaint is the furniture doesn't quite match. [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1674136&a=12838566&p=48000268[/img]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 9:57:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 10:02:30 AM EDT by leadfly]
The SAR-1 shoots 7.62x39. The SAR-2 uses 5.45x39 and SAR-3 uses .223 I have a SAR-1, no problems whatsoever. Kinda ugly though but still lots of fun. I am going to pick up a MAK-90 today. I think I will have spent close to what you're willing to spend for both guns.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:04:08 AM EDT
I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:10:39 AM EDT
SAR1 = 7.62x39 SAR2 = 5.45x39 SAR3 = 5.56x45 SAR1 are good rifles for what they are(post ban AK's) I own 3 and they are great shooters. They shoot as good as any pre-ban(all AK's function no matter ammo or mags) as you know the price difference is because of legal status, not some superior workmanship. Yes some of the chinese preban AK's like polytech guns have good fit and finish and the SAR series are a little rough in that area. However, non of these guns is even close to the worst finish US made AR you could imagine. I have stripped and finished the stocks on my SAR's and they look great now. On my SAR2's I refinished the stocks and added the original romanina front sight block and muzzle brakes. Also I have bead blasted and blued the SAR2's and intend on doing it to the SAR1's. They look as good as any preban AK out there less the bayo and flash hider. SAR1's are $300-$350. in most cases. You can get a very good post ban AK that has a quality finish and high quality US parts from global trades or you can by the global trades guns through TN Guns Models SSR-85B and SSR-85C are great rifles and well worth the extra money. [url]http://www.tennesseeguns.com/firearms.html[/url] Click on arsenal usa to see these rifles. WASR rifles are imported single stack AK's that have been converted by CAI to accept 30 rd double stack mags. They have the butthole stock. If you want the pistol grip you have to comply with the 922r bullshit to change the furniture. If you care about the legalities that is. When I bought my SAR's they were not $350. I paid $289 out the door for mine. If I were buying now, I would spend the $469 and get one of the Arsenal USA rifles. But at the time I bought I could get nearly two for one. This is not the case anymore. [b]SAR1's[/b] [img]blackrifle.tripod.com/SAR1x2.jpg[/img] [b]SAR2's[/b] [img]blackrifle.tripod.com/SAR2x2.jpg[/img] You won't find stock SAR's that look like this [:D]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:16:53 AM EDT
akrazy, How did you get the muzzle brakes on the Romainian barrels. I know they aren't threaded.... I would also like to know about the WASR-10's. they are 249.99 at AIM and if they are as good as the SAR-1's that is a steal! You could easily change those over to the pistol grip with enough US parts. How retarded? Guns with US parts don't kill people right?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:27:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 10:27:20 AM EDT by cheeks]
[url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=6134#lastPost[/url] What do you think of this one? I was wanting the pistol grip, but would I be better off spending less on a romanian and buying the US made furniture?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 10:33:07 AM EDT
Would the Bulgarian SLR101 with milled receiver (will not take conventional AK mags.) be a good deal at $250.00? It has 16" chromed barrel, synthetic thumbhole stock and a muzzle brake. Excuse my questions, I know zip about AKs.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 11:00:29 AM EDT
bwilder10 - the brakes are on the SAR2 rifles. You can buy the original front sight block and muzzle brakes from K-var. The site block is threaded, not the barrel. If you want further info email me I'm glad to give you details on how to do this. The WASR are basically the same as an SAR1 except for the stock set up and the conversion. Actually you could put any stamped stock set made for an AK on it. You need a couple extra screws though. The conversion is well done by the way. I have handled one of these guns at AIM. For $250 you can't go wrong. cheeks - did you go look at the rifles TN Guns has in the link I gave? Those made by Arsenal USA/Global Trades are IMO way better than some converted Saiga P.O.S. I would not spend $600. on a post ban AK. Not at this point anyway. K-Var has one coming that is called an SA-M7. The SA M-7's are built from BRAND NEW Bulgarian AK kits (that were imported from Bulgaria by K-Var)The receivers for these rifles are machined in Las Vegas (hence,US made part)from forged ingots of steel that were also imported from Bulgaria. The rifles are assembled in Las Vegas by Bulgarian AK gun smiths that work for Arsenal Co. of Bulgaria. Thats right,they're built by the actual people who build them in Bulgaria. These are going to be TOP OF THE LINE RIFLES! You can bet on that! I hear dealer cost will be around $450-$475. Tennessee Guns will be selling them soon. Cheeks, just because you have $600. does'nt mean you need to spend it all to get a quality AK. These SA M-7 will be a good buy, probably one of the best AK's out there period, pre or post ban. Hillbilly - the SLR101 is a good milled bulgarian AK but as you know accepts 10 rd single stack mags. IMO I don't want an AK that won't take 30's but thats me. Bulgarian guns are high quality pieces. Don't plan on converting it to 30 rd double stack either. The steel is incredibly hard. I know a guy who tried it. He ended up buying a hi-cap bulgarian receiver and using the SLR101 as a parts kit to build on the new receiver.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 12:18:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 2:15:49 PM EDT by Bud91859]
akrazy, What do you think of the SLR100H (Walnut "Legend") from Tennessee Guns? Also, where do you find ammo for the SAR2 (5.45x39)? Bud
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 12:27:48 PM EDT
What about the MAADI?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 2:45:29 PM EDT by Neutrino45]
I have a Gordon Tech SLR100H. It's pretty nice. You just have to make sure the barrel is not worn out. I wouldn't buy it with out checking the barrel first! I bought mine for $425 at AIM Surplus last October.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:46:20 PM EDT
i own both a sar-1 and a hungarian ARM. they are excellent kalishnikov's for the money. if money is not an object, than these are the best AK's: 1. Valmet's. best with wooeden stock. m78 i believe is the model designation. peep-hole sights. made in finland. 2. Galil. isreali made. quite nice with better sights. 3. ak-101-105 best of the russian made assault rifles. krebs custom guns makes a nice ak-103. manufactured in usa with russian parts. 4. Vepr. can be had in .223, 5.45, 7.62x39, and .308 made in usa with russian parts. 5. Sako M90. made in finland. heir to the Valmets. i wish i could handle one of these. thank you so very much clinton. probably the highest quality ak of them all. superb stock and sight. 6. Yugoslavian ak's are nice too. nice pistol grip. 7. Bulgarian ak's are well made with quality components. arsenal USA manufactures Bulgarian kalishnikovs. best two places to aquire ak parts are global trades and hi-vel AA-ok. ak-47.net has a link to both sites. progressive arms and CDNN are the two best places to go for mags. buy waffle mags. i love mine. M43 soviet round shooting lib
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 2:49:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 2:49:58 PM EDT by M15A2]
[url]http://www.ammoman.com[/url] Ammoman has 10 Romanian mags for $79.99 shipped. [i]Edited because I can't spell.[/i]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:01:24 PM EDT
I have a romanian ak in 5.45X39 with stocks similar to those on the WASR-10. Beware of them, unless you have really big hands, it is a large stretch to the trigger. ARlady has to hold her palm on the side of the grip to reach the trigger as does my brother. Just another note.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:19:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 3:23:02 PM EDT by AKsRule]
cheeks : I will offer my opinion - but you really need to come to the "Dark Side " to get the best info [:D] [url]http://www.ak-47.net/akboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=6[/url] $650 should get you a Decent AK [:D] I am partial to The Arsenal Bulgaria SLR 95 Some links - [url] http://www.centuryarms.com/store/index.html[/url] [url]http://www.tennesseeguns.com/firearms.html[/url] [url]http://www.robarm.com/[/url] (scroll down ) Good Luck [:)]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:27:39 PM EDT
held a robarms vepr at the gunshow VERY NICE RIFLE!
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:34:00 PM EDT
a chinese Mak90 is imposssible to kill period! but those SAR1's are great little beater rifles that can really be customized if you choose too.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:54:01 PM EDT
How about the Vepr's.I was thinking about getting one of these.I heard they were mosstly Russian.i also heard that Cav Arms made the buttstock.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:05:00 PM EDT
I have a SLR95 it`s one of the nicer AK`s you will find. Arsenal is Mikhail`s favorite factory and the first place he visited when he was allowed to leave the country
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:38:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:39:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 7:43:23 PM EDT by Akruss35]
Hello! Let me tell something about AK rifles.The best quality AK rifle out there right now is the AK-103 or 104 i don't remember exactly ,but i saw one at the show and i had fire one at the range. Like i said i don't recall the model of this rifle,but it is in the Shotgun News and it's made in Russia. I spent 2 years in Russian Army and this is a closest thing to the original,except the stock,because it's non folding version. There is nothing better then original.I have 2 Romanian rifles in 5.45X39,1 MAK90 rifle in 7.62X39,1 Politech in same caliber and 1 Bulgarian.Any of those rifles very reliable,but Chinese bolt carriers are not my fovorite,because of the loose piston.I don't think the Bulgarian version is favorite by Mikhail Kalashnikov,but it is a good rifle.The only downside of this rifle it's a little heavy,because of the milled receiver,which is not really the best thing out there,because in original russian design right now stamped receiver has special reinforcements.I don't know if those reinforcements available in civilian version. My next rifle will be Russian.I think in reliability nothing can beat the AK rifle,but in the accuracy and recoil the AR15 better. Thak You! Tim. P.S.Mikhail Kalashnikov was able to leave country whenever he want's to,especialy if he wanted to go to Bulgaria ,Poland or any other Soviet Block country.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:53:46 PM EDT
AKrazy, Are those stocks from Ironwood? Where did you get a fal-style pistol grip for an ak?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 11:39:14 PM EDT
I have a China made Norinco MAK-90 with a milled receiver... and a Romanian WUM-1... Both are 7.62x39 and both are well built. The MAK-90 is a bit nicer because of the milled receiver & good quality machined parts... Both guns are 100% reliable...never had a jam or any problems with them. I WILL buy MORE...[beer]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 2:30:33 AM EDT
Just picked up a Romanian SAR 1 myself. FUN AS HELL TO SHOOT, zero problems, the GLOCK of rifles? Who would have thought I would be purchasing WOLF ammo by the case? 7.62x39 Ammo is cheap too!!!
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 5:00:38 AM EDT
After reading about the AK stuff around here lately, I got a wild hair and pulled mine out yesterday afternoon. It has been about 8 years since I have had it outdoors. To tell ya the truth, I didn't even remember what it was. It turned out to be a MAADI ARM. Left Side: ARM SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE CALIBER 7.62 X 39 MAADI COMPANY MADE IN EGYPT Right Side: ACC INTL / INTRAC KNOX. TN EGYPT I have to comment that this thing is a piece of chit. At First, I loaded up the Chinese drum I have had packed away for the same time period as the rifle. The damn thing stove piped the second round. I fiddled with it a bit and determined that the front mag catch was too thin on the receiver or either the front lug on the frum wasn't low enough. I proceeded to push the drum forward, while locked into the receiver, and the rounds would barely clear the receiver and enter the barrel. As long as I exert moderate forward pressure to the drum, tilting the rounds upward toward the barrel, it would feed ok. I pulled out a couple of 30 rounders to see if the drum was the problem. The mags did the same thing. Stove piped the second round. Push the mag forward, and it works fine. While typing this, I just had to double check my findings. I just inserted an empty mag into the rifle, and the thing is excessively loose. For some reason, the front of every mag I have (5 + drum) will not lock up tight. This allows the the tip of the bullet to leave the mag and slam into the receiver below the barrel. In my opinion, this gun needs to have the front catch built up in order for the mags to lock in firmly. [b]Can some of you guys tell me if the mags lock in tight on your rifles?[/b] As far as I'm concerned, they can take this thing and shove up their 4$$! I guess I shouldn't have expected much from a $250 rifle, after shooting my Colt M4gery lately. What a piece of chit.....
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 5:09:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 5:12:35 AM EDT by AC Doctor]
[img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1482572&a=11168737&p=39028500[/img] This is the best AK made, postban. It is a new KVAR milled parts set assembled on a Bulgarian Arsenal milled reciever, with USA made furniture, trigger parts and slant brake to be meet BATF regs. The rifle was parked, and then gunkoted matte black. The work was done by Informer, from the AK-47 boards. This rifle gets more attention than some of my tricked out AR's at the rifle range. I have approx. $750.00 total in this project. You cannot buy a nicer AK than this, other than another AK assembled by Informer. The barrel is also laser aligned and the trigger is worked on to get a really light pull with no creep. It shoots 1.5" groups off of sandbags.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 5:18:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 5:17:28 AM EDT by AC Doctor]
If you do not want to mess around building an AK, than try Krebs for very well built AK's. [url]krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:56:03 AM EDT
I own the Robinson Armament VEPR II in 7.62X39. It's the best AK there is, without doubt. These are built on RPK receivers, and are finished in the USA. See www.robarm.com if interested.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 7:12:33 AM EDT
As long as we are talking about the best, here it is: [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=48016864&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG] And the second runner up: [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=48016868&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:00:28 AM EDT
Since everyone is talking anout the the best, what do you reckon I should do with this POS? [img]http://images.freepichosting.com/Cope/23567-Large.jpg[/img] Once again, [b]Can some of you guys tell me if the mags lock in tight on your rifles?[/b]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 11:03:38 AM EDT
Cope, Send it to me. No, I'm not gonna fix it, and you're not gonna get it back, but if you're having so much trouble with it I'll be glad to handle it for you. Hell, I'll even meet you half way.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 11:28:52 AM EDT
FM, It wouldn't take a whole lot of coaxing to off this thing on somebody. That's for sure! And here I have been thinking for last 6-8 years that I have a dependable AK variant piled in the back of safe. Sheesh. If the VEPR is anywhere near as well made as the M96 Expeditionary Rifle, I may start looking in that direction. I appreciate the offer, but I just wouldn't feel right about the deal unless you allowed me to buy your gas.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 11:47:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bud91859: akrazy, What do you think of the SLR100H (Walnut "Legend") from Tennessee Guns? Also, where do you find ammo for the SAR2 (5.45x39)?
View Quote
I did'nt like them. They are made out of 50 year old worn out parts. So for $500+ I passed. To whoever asked about my stocks...They are the originals but I have refinished them. That orange coating, whatever it is, is pure shit so I stripped all of mine. The FAL style grips came from ACE LTD. [url]www.riflestocks.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 11:53:18 AM EDT
If I were you guys wanting to buy new AK's I would seriously consider waiting for the SA M-7 Bulgarians. These will be the best AK's on the market, bar none. I'm talking AK's not Valmets and Galil which are rare and expensive. Cope mags in AK's fit kinda loose depending on the mags but mine are not all that loose. Just a little side to side play with steel mags. No play at all with Bulgarian waffles. They fit tight. Oh and if you guys are paying more than $6.25 for brand new steel AK mags your paying to much. [url]www.progressivearms.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 3:28:03 PM EDT
akrazy, Thanks for the response. I guess you pc is one of the few that would actually show my question the screen. dono I just wiggled a 30 rounder around in my rifle, and it actually has more for/aft play in it than side to side. uncool. Thanks though.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:56:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: Left Side: ARM SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE CALIBER 7.62 X 39 MAADI COMPANY MADE IN EGYPT Right Side: ACC INTL / INTRAC KNOX. TN EGYPT I just inserted an empty mag into the rifle, and the thing is excessively loose. For some reason, the front of every mag I have (5 + drum) will not lock up tight. This allows the the tip of the bullet to leave the mag and slam into the receiver below the barrel. In my opinion, this gun needs to have the front catch built up in order for the mags to lock in firmly. [b]Can some of you guys tell me if the mags lock in tight on your rifles?[/b]
View Quote
ALL My mags lock in nice and snug...'kinda like they were made for the guns. I've got 6 30 round steel "weiger" mags and a 100 round chinese drum. Everything fits perfectly in both my AK's...Norinco MAK-90 w/milled receiver and Romanian WUM-1... I could be mistaken...BUT, I thought I heard my dealer say to me that not all 7.62 AK's would accept the "AK-standard" mags . I 'sorta think for some reason that the Egyptian MAADI's have their own mag design. Again, I could be wrong, but it might be worth looking into. Try Ak47.net...some sharp folks over there with AK-47's. If I think of it I'll ask my dealer next time I see him... ART
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 1:35:16 PM EDT
Thanks Art. I am giving this thing one last good cleaning, and it is going to the next show. What the hell good is an AK variant if I can't swipe a mag from a red chinese marching onto my property? I guess that's what I get for buying a $250 NIB gun. Won't happen again.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 2:09:52 PM EDT
Hey akrazy, When are those SA M-7's gonna hit the market?
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