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Posted: 8/19/2004 6:06:50 AM EST
Names or websites please. Just curious whats available to learn to be the best (Or one of them).
Isnt there an IDSC or somesuch?
Thanks,
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:07:48 AM EST
Marines or Army.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:23:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Marines or Army.



Ok, anything for the civilians who stand to gain nothing by going into the military?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:27:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 7:19:32 AM EST by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Marines or Army.



Ok, anything for the civilians who stand to gain nothing by going into the military?



If you would "stand to gain nothing by going into the military", one must assume that you would also stand to gain nothing by going to a civilian shooting/tactics school.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:28:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:30:45 AM EST by SgtKiwi]
If you want to go through where all of the Seals are being sent...

MidSouth


Went through one of their courses in April for pistol/rifle, Great course. We shot about 4500 rounds each in 4 days. Believe it or not, we only shot from 7 yards and less (minus a few shots farther with rifle), but everything was at small dots and steel. A real good combat course.

ETA: folks who have train at MidSouth...

Federal Bureau of Investigations – Firearms Instructors, Special Weapons and Tactics, Hostage Rescue Team, Special Operations Group, Director Protection Detail

Drug Enforcement Administration – Firearms Instructors, Executive Protection Detail, Clandestine Laboratory Enforcement Team, Air Wing Pilots

United States Customs – Firearms Instructors, Air Interdiction Team

United States Secret Service – Firearms Instructors, Special Operations Group

United States Marshal Service – Firearms Instructors, Special Operations Group

United States Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms – Firearms Instructors

Federal Law Enforcement Training Center – Firearms Instructors

United States Army – 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 10th Special Forces Groups, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, 75th Ranger Regiment, DoD units

United States Navy – Naval Criminal Investigative Service, SEAL Teams, SDV Teams, Special Boat Units, Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) Instructors, Naval Special Warfare personnel

The United States Marine Corps – Scout snipers, MEU (SOC) personnel

U.S. Air Force – Combat Control Teams, Para-Rescue teams

Australian S.A.S.

British S.A.S

Victoria, South Queensland Australia Police

Numerous police Tactical and SWAT teams

M.I.S.S. has trained the top three police SWAT teams who shot in the World Police and Fire Championship Games.

Law Enforcement Training Network (LETN) has credited Mid-South with producing the most informative four-part series on firearms training they have ever offered.


Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:33:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:40:18 AM EST by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Marines or Army.



Ok, anything for the civilians who stand to gain nothing by going into the military?



I you would "stand to gain nothing by going into the military", one must assume that you would also stand to gain nothing by going to a civilian shooting/tactics school.



Ok, let me expand on that for people who just want to flame like a jackass.
1) The military would have to about DOUBLE the payscale to make it worth my time.
2) The military would have to keep me at home, because I value my FAMILY more then serving years in some sandbox. I, unlike some, LIKE to see my wife and kids everyday.
3) I dont WANT to make peanuts and risk getting shot and killed.

Yes, I would stand to learn tactics. But 4 years of my life making shit for money isnt worth it when I could go to a school and hopefulyl get some basics down in a week or two, while at the end of a week or so coming back to my good paying job to support the military just like I do now. AND I get to see my family EVERYDAY.

BTW Cin, not trying to come off as a dick. Its just on ost other forums I continually have to deal with 16 y/o Keyboard COmmandos and E-thugs who think everyone is somehow inferior to them and blowing smoke out their ass. Sometimes I get a bit touchy when someone just posts to blow me off like that. I asked a simple question, and due to circumstances being what they are for me military service just isnt an option.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:41:04 AM EST
Hey, fuck you man.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:41:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey, fuck you man.



And why is that?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:44:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey, fuck you man.



More Cowbell Dammit!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:10:24 AM EST
cowbell
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:11:56 AM EST
I've been saving this for a special occasion:

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:16:28 AM EST
I have had great results at Thunder Ranch. Recent thread below:

www.castle-hams.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=13&t=262958
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:22:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 8:09:35 AM EST by JarheadChiro]
f
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:24:49 AM EST
^^Thanks fellas. I wasnt in ANY way trying to dog on military PERSONNEL, just the military in general. They just dont pay enough! (Dont have to tell the enlisted people that either)
Same with Reserves. I would have been signed up years ago, but cant afford to take the 3 months off of work (Or whatever it is). I dont even know, are eomplyers required by law to hold your job while your out at boot camp (Assuming it was a Reserve type deal)??
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:28:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:29:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
^^Thanks fellas. I wasnt in ANY way trying to dog on military PERSONNEL, just the military in general. They just dont pay enough! (Dont have to tell the enlisted people that either)
Same with Reserves. I would have been signed up years ago, but cant afford to take the 3 months off of work (Or whatever it is). I dont even know, are eomplyers required by law to hold your job while your out at boot camp (Assuming it was a Reserve type deal)??


Yes, they are.
It's the law.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:29:28 AM EST
Ya don't do it for the money. You don't do it because it's convenient for your family life. I also value my family, but I spent a year and a half away from my wife deployed in a shit hole. You seem to imply that if you are in the military you don't value your family. My advice to you, considering your obvious lack of tact, is to drop this line of discussion. I don't think you intended to be offensive, but you're laying it on pretty thick.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:35:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Marines or Army.



Ok, anything for the civilians who stand to gain nothing by going into the military?



I you would "stand to gain nothing by going into the military", one must assume that you would also stand to gain nothing by going to a civilian shooting/tactics school.



Ok, let me expand on that for people who just want to flame like a jackass.
1) The military would have to about DOUBLE the payscale to make it worth my time.
2) The military would have to keep me at home, because I value my FAMILY more then serving years in some sandbox. I, unlike some, LIKE to see my wife and kids everyday.
3) I dont WANT to make peanuts and risk getting shot and killed.

Yes, I would stand to learn tactics. But 4 years of my life making shit for money isnt worth it when I could go to a school and hopefulyl get some basics down in a week or two, while at the end of a week or so coming back to my good paying job to support the military just like I do now. AND I get to see my family EVERYDAY.

BTW Cin, not trying to come off as a dick. Its just on ost other forums I continually have to deal with 16 y/o Keyboard COmmandos and E-thugs who think everyone is somehow inferior to them and blowing smoke out their ass. Sometimes I get a bit touchy when someone just posts to blow me off like that. I asked a simple question, and due to circumstances being what they are for me military service just isnt an option.



I didn't think that you were a completely selfish dickhead until I read this response.

There are things other than money that make it worth our time. Some of us value our families enough to want to make their world a better place. Don't worry though, if you won't go, maybe your son will. You don't want to risk getting shot, but you want to learn tactics. I guess being a poser is more credible if you add a thin veneer of superficial knowledge.

Just for the record, military pay when you add in the allowances has actually been raised from "peanuts" to "pecans". The 'base pay' you see on the scale is only a portion of the renumeration recieved.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:44:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 7:44:48 AM EST by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Marines or Army.



Ok, anything for the civilians who stand to gain nothing by going into the military?



I you would "stand to gain nothing by going into the military", one must assume that you would also stand to gain nothing by going to a civilian shooting/tactics school.



Ok, let me expand on that for people who just want to flame like a jackass.
1) The military would have to about DOUBLE the payscale to make it worth my time.
2) The military would have to keep me at home, because I value my FAMILY more then serving years in some sandbox. I, unlike some, LIKE to see my wife and kids everyday.
3) I dont WANT to make peanuts and risk getting shot and killed.

Yes, I would stand to learn tactics. But 4 years of my life making shit for money isnt worth it when I could go to a school and hopefulyl get some basics down in a week or two, while at the end of a week or so coming back to my good paying job to support the military just like I do now. AND I get to see my family EVERYDAY.


I know men who care dearly for their family and their communities.
And that is precisely WHY they have chosen to "make peanuts and risk getting shot and killed".

You might not believe it, but I and my brothers in arms I value our families, too. AND that's why we serve. Most have missed births of children, and years of their lives.
That's why we put our asses on the line. To protect them, and to protect obnoxious, ingrates such as you.

It might not be your cup of tea, fine.
Keep it to yourself.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:46:42 AM EST
well, this got way off topic extremely fast.

I'd sugest Gunsite, but you're going to hear alot of the "latest cool school" crowd down talk it.

www.gunsite.com
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:51:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rabid_Coyote:
I didn't think that you were a completely selfish dickhead until I read this response.



Y'all really need to calm down. The original question is a valid one, otherwise, you sound like you've been cut from the same cloth as Wesley Clark (Want an AW, join the military).
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:52:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By Rabid_Coyote:
I didn't think that you were a completely selfish dickhead until I read this response.



Y'all really need to calm down. The original question is a valid one, otherwise, you sound like you've been cut from the same cloth as Wesley Clark (Want an AW, join the military).


Nonsense.
His post was DAMNED insulting to those who sacrifice and serve.
Read it again.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:53:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 7:55:23 AM EST by DvlDog]
Specop, its ok to be a pussy...you dont have to make excuses.

<­BR>might want to change that cool-guy-highspeed-low-drag interet name to something more befitting a selfish girly-man like you . Specop-007...bitch please.

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:54:32 AM EST
storm mountain?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:11:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
Ya don't do it for the money. You don't do it because it's convenient for your family life. I also value my family, but I spent a year and a half away from my wife deployed in a shit hole. You seem to imply that if you are in the military you don't value your family. My advice to you, considering your obvious lack of tact, is to drop this line of discussion. I don't think you intended to be offensive, but you're laying it on pretty thick.




Classy response to an insensitive prick. Thanks 2IDdoc for your service and your sacrifice of your life and family to keep mine safe. I am very grateful to you and your family.

Hey specop*.* change your name and get off the vets, they love their family enough to go out and make them safe, and get paid shit doing it. While not a vet myself I bristle at the inference you are making with your brash statements. To imply that the people who are risking their ass for your safety don't love their families is ridiculous and hurtful. You obviously don't know any. So get off them and get back to your game of CounterStrike or Airsoft, your statements here just inflame.


If you want training, get the Art of the AR15 by lenny magill, you'll be all set after you watch that.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:13:31 AM EST
TFTT (www.tftt.com) Max Joseph rocks...

I've taken:
Combat Shotgun
Tac Rifle I&II
Tac Pistol I & II
Optical Rifle
Adv Sniper

Great guy, great instruction and a hell of a lot of fun...

Their MTU(mobile training unit) goes all over the country...check them out
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:21:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By SgtKiwi:
If you want to go through where all of the Seals are being sent...

MidSouth


Went through one of their courses in April for pistol/rifle, Great course. We shot about 4500 rounds each in 4 days. Believe it or not, we only shot from 7 yards and less (minus a few shots farther with rifle), but everything was at small dots and steel. A real good combat course.






Could you describe the dot drills you did with the rifle/carbine?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:57:16 AM EST
Boy did I start a pot of shit, ohh well don't be a poser and you wont get called on it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:24:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:

Originally Posted By SgtKiwi:
If you want to go through where all of the Seals are being sent...

MidSouth


Went through one of their courses in April for pistol/rifle, Great course. We shot about 4500 rounds each in 4 days. Believe it or not, we only shot from 7 yards and less (minus a few shots farther with rifle), but everything was at small dots and steel. A real good combat course.






Could you describe the dot drills you did with the rifle/carbine?



Basically, everything we did was concentrated on "smooth"... "smooth is fast" the instuctor always said. We started out very slow concentrating on technique and progressed a little faster in time. Pistol and rifle were the same except the pistol was from a holster and the rifle from a slung position. We used both weapons several times in something called the "Crazy Indian" drill where we transitioned back and forth. Early in the week we were shooting at 5 inch dots and by the last day 2 inch. Smoothness and technique were emphasized over and over (through several thousand rounds), and by the last day, most people in the class were shooting very fast and accurate.

As far as the particular drills we did, I mentioned the Crazy Indian already (tedious but effective), we would have an M4 loaded with an extra mag (28 rounds in each) and a Beretta with 4 mags(14 rounds in each), we would start by firing 1 shot with the M4 at whatever dot the instuctor designated and then transition to the pistol and fire 1 shot, reholster, transition to the rifle, fire 1 shot, etc...etc... until all mags were empty. During the drill, any time a weapon ran dry, combat reload and fire another round with said weapon.

We also did alot of things that look and sound stupid as hell but worked well such as shooting while squatting and standing (on the move up and down), a which developed into moving frontways, sideways, and backwards as well as squatting and standing. Really teaches concentration.


I've never been to any of the "Big Name" gun schools, but as a former Marine , Competitive shooter in the Marines, LE and NRA Firearms Instructor, it was the best Combat Shooting course for CQB that I have ever seen. In my current PD job in panama city FL, I have the opportunity to share our range with several Seals stationed at the local base which is home to the Navy's Experimental Dive Unit, Navy Diving and Salvadge Training Center, Seal Delivery Vehicle School. They recommended it to me and I was impressed.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:36:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 3:38:40 PM EST by 3ACR_Scout]

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
Ya don't do it for the money. You don't do it because it's convenient for your family life. I also value my family, but I spent a year and a half away from my wife deployed in a shit hole. You seem to imply that if you are in the military you don't value your family. My advice to you, considering your obvious lack of tact, is to drop this line of discussion. I don't think you intended to be offensive, but you're laying it on pretty thick.



Well said. I've spent the last year overseas, and will be returning to the U.S. for about 5 months before I deploy again for another year. I really don't appreciate the implication that I don't value my family and wouldn't like to spend every day with them. I gave up a comfortable civilian job after college and came back in because it was something I wanted to do, and I thought it was important. I've finally caught back up to what I was making as a civilian after 4 years and 2 promotions. My parents will probably pass away sometime in the next few years while I'm overseas, or in the field, and most of my friends have missed over half of their anniversaries and their children's birthdays. I'm still single, otherwise I would have missed those things too, but I love what I do and take a lot of satisfaction out of it.

Back to the topic at hand - can anyone recommend any schools in Colorado that offer weekend courses? I'd like to put in some extra time at the range before I come back over here. Thanks!

Dave
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:09:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
Ya don't do it for the money. You don't do it because it's convenient for your family life. I also value my family, but I spent a year and a half away from my wife deployed in a shit hole. You seem to imply that if you are in the military you don't value your family. My advice to you, considering your obvious lack of tact, is to drop this line of discussion. I don't think you intended to be offensive, but you're laying it on pretty thick.



The reference to "like seeing my family" wasnt pointed at military personnel. I should have stated it more clearly, I mean more like the guy who, ohhh, say hangs out at the bar EVERY night or tries to pick up a new paice of ass while his wife sits at home. I've had friends and family in the military. My beef isnt with the people, but the politics behind the people. So yes, thats my bad, after reading I myself think it was a pretty shitty way to describe it, and for that I do apologize. I was not trying to imply that military people think any less of their family by doing what they do.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:35:57 PM EST
What a bad way to voice your opinion on a subject. I am not join to slam you, but look at your sign on name then rag about keyboard commandos.

I am glad i served and would never change it, I always wanted to be a soldier and it had nothing to do with money, I was about Honor and Courage. Do you think our greatgrand father and Father wanted to leave home to fight in two world wars. We live in freedom todat because of these men, and because of those men is the reason I joined.

The world owns those great men, and also the men who left their farms to fight the British, without those men we would not have the guns we all love so much, we would not be able to talk freely like we do, this forum would not be here for us to enjoy.

I was in the invasion of Panama and I saw how we changed those peoples lives forever, you can not but a price on that.

I think you should maybe go to Mid-South and talk to some of the guys there, you will find that they don't do it for the money. They do it to make a difference in the world and also the risk that comes with it.

My best friend is in 5th group he loves his wife and new child more then anything, but to steal aline from a movie "It's about the guy next to you" and you will never understand that till you serve. This is not a personnal attack on you or your character, just be carefull on how you make open statments.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:40:07 PM EST
Let's just say I was at a base in NC while on active duty, I got to watch a group of guys who had long hair and belonged to a unit that starts with "D" shoot one shot reload, shoot one shot reload, shoot one shot...etc for hours. Practice make perfect.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:15:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1-75Ranger:
Let's just say I was at a base in NC while on active duty, I got to watch a group of guys who had long hair and belonged to a unit that starts with "D" shoot one shot reload, shoot one shot reload, shoot one shot...etc for hours. Practice make perfect.



1-75Ranger,

I'm a little slow here, were they shooting 1 shot and reloading cause they were shooting precision with too-long-for-mags 5.56nato or were they practicing reloading when dry by having it empty every shot?

you have to explain it to us slow guys.....
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:24:29 PM EST
"were they practicing reloading when dry by having it empty every shot" that is correct from what I could tell, it was with handguns, but I did not bee bop over there to ask what they were doing either.

Did you know if you do a HALO jump with a tandem jumper, when you open the chute the top guy steers, while the lower guy takes out targets with an MP5, just something to think about.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:26:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Hey, fuck you man.



Sorry had to do it, because I can't take any of your posts seriously with that avitar.
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