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12/15/2017 11:52:10 PM
Posted: 7/14/2001 3:22:07 PM EST
I'm looking for a model that won't break the bank. How's the Colt 1991? The Springfield?
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:30:38 PM EST
Colt has really gone down hill. Springfield Armory or Kimber are the way to go I've owned both and they are both top notch for the price. [url]http://www.springfield-armory.com/index.shtml[/url] [url]http://www.kimberamerica.com/[/url] This started out as a $500 basic blue steel Kimber. I checkered and customized it, then sent it to METALIFE [url]http://www.mahovskysmetalife.com/[/url] [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/015/FO/id/5F/u570578.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:33:02 PM EST
Kimber Springfield Colt
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:35:23 PM EST
WAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic of the question here (Sorry Gobblin) but... I just read a thingie about Larry Vickers 1911's today as I was sitting in Barned and Noble reading all the gun mags I will never buy... Anyone ever handled a Vickers 1911? I shot a Swenson once, and my grandpa had a Bob Day.... Are the Vickers 45's any better, or just more sought after because he is an active Spec-Op??
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:45:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: WAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic of the question here (Sorry Gobblin) but... I just read a thingie about Larry Vickers 1911's today as I was sitting in Barned and Noble reading all the gun mags I will never buy... Anyone ever handled a Vickers 1911? I shot a Swenson once, and my grandpa had a Bob Day.... Are the Vickers 45's any better, or just more sought after because he is an active Spec-Op??
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No problem Mickey. I just visited the Springfield site. Their Mil-Spec model is the one. It'll be the SA Mil-Spec or another Sig (in .45 ACP) to go with the 229 and 239 (both in .40 S&W). Hated the thought of a Colt anyway.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 3:51:06 PM EST
Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right. If you aren't dead set on getting a 1911, I say go Sig.. Oh yeah. [url]www.sigtalk.com[/url] BEST SIG SITE ON THE WEB!!
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:06:12 PM EST
I have a Kimber Custom Clasic Stainless and have put about 300 rounds through it without a hickup. It's accuracy potential is much better than I am. You can't go wrong with a Springfield either however. [8D]
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:17:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2001 4:15:10 PM EST by norielX]
Since you're looking, why not check out Springfield's Mil-Spec Operator. I like how it looks. Full-length dust cover with integrated mounting rail. Looks good to me... [url]www.springfieldarmory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mso.shtml[/url] [img=left] www.springfieldarmory.com/images/pistols/a1/milspeco-a.jpg [/img=left]
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:46:44 PM EST
From my own research I'd go with Springfield over Kimber, but I shoot a lot. Kimber makes a compromise in their machining to keep the cost low. I can't remember the exact term Kimber uses but they describe the process on their web site. They found a way to mass produce parts with close tolerances. What they don't mention is strength and durability are lower. I have no doubt Kimber makes a fine shooter and carry gun, but if you plan to put a lot of rounds through it go with Springfield. Both surpass "decent." Disclaimer: My information comes from an article I read a year or two ago. It got technical enough to be beyond my very limited knowledge of metalurgy and I accepted the findings of the article. I don't remember who wrote it or who published it.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:57:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By BKinzey: From my own research I'd go with Springfield over Kimber, but I shoot a lot. Kimber makes a compromise in their machining to keep the cost low. I can't remember the exact term Kimber uses but they describe the process on their web site.
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MIM Metal Impressed Molding
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:33:54 PM EST
Was at the high priced handgun store yesterday.........30 yr old colts....850.....new springfields.....550.......YOU do the math!!!!!!!!!!!!![smoke]
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:36:07 PM EST
P.S.......forget colt 1991`s......it`s a poor corporate attempt to compete with clones in the price game..........[pistol]
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:46:20 PM EST
Colt's Gold Match is just as good as the Springfield Trophy Match or Kimber Gold err.. Gold..err, whatever name it is their using to rip off Colt. Colt still makes the best frames, machined and cleaned up by hand not like those CNC made Kimbers or Springfields that feel thicker. With that said I'd go for the Mil Spec. I'd also look into a Dan Wesson Point Man Minor. Looks to be like the gun Kimber SHOULD offer as a base gun. Basically a smoothed up base 1911 without all the faux "custom" (see goofy slide serrations above) gimmickry.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 7:19:05 PM EST
Your best bet is a Kimber Classic Custom...it's about $625 or so, and has almost everything you could want in a 1911. If that's too much, you can get a Springfield Loaded for nearly a hundred less, if you can live with a few more sharp edges and a bit less accuracy. Avoid the Colt 1991A1...it's not a bad pistol but it is severely overpriced, like ALL Colt products.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 7:33:01 PM EST
Colt still makes the best frames????? PLEASE!!!!!! Colt doesn't make the best ANYTHING! I've owned 4 Colt 1911's- two full-size, one commander, and one officer's. All four were less than satisfactory. Not one would work 100% out of the box, and one of the full-size guns was so messed up it couldn't be fixed. The current Kimber and Springfield guns have them beat by a mile. IMHO, nothing coming out of Colt is worth what they want for it. Kimber and Springfield are making guns that are perfectly acceptable for carry or competition use right out of the box, without the need for thousands of dollars of customization first. I tried to get Colt M4's for my SWAT team, but I was told by several LE dealers that the wait was at least a year, and the price had gone up from $565 or so per gun to almost $900 per gun. That's department price on an AR variant! Colt has gone completely to crap as far as I'm concerned- buy Kimber or SA for 1911's, and Bushmaster for AR's. I think Vickers makes a nice gun, but for almost $4000? You can buy 2 Les Baer's and a bunch of ammo for that kind of cash.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 7:36:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2001 7:40:36 PM EST by lbj]
Depends on what you want and it's intended use. I have a couple Para Ordnance 1911s and like them. I did have a couple functional problems which were warranteed and resolved. lbj has a knack for picking the lemon but a Para P12 and in it's preban capacity and size in .45ACP is hard to beat. I really want their newer always ready not single action LDA model. But really, does lbj need another pistol? Uh in short...YES!!!!! lbj prefers Sigs but there is something appealing about the historical nature of a single action 1911. Not my choice for self defense but definitelt NOT outdated and a formidable weapon of equal stature to today's modern firearms.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 10:02:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right. !
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Just bought a Kimber Custom Classic to celebrate July 9, "Buy a Gun Day", and it needs exactly nothing. It shoots great right out of the box, and I will add nothing but extra mags. Love it, and I am a Glock guy, basically. Goblin - FWIW, I don't think you can go wrong with Kimber or Springfield. There are a lot of others, but big bucks are in order when you buy them, and they really don't shoot any better (I have shot Wilson's, and Les Baer's.) [:d]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:53:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right.
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Naw, that's only if you're a cheap-ass mofo that buys a POS Filipino made, cast-frame Charles Daly and expects it to shoot like a Colt, Kimber or Springfield. I have owned over two dozen 1911s and shot far more and I have NEVER had a factory-made, major brand 1911 that needed ANY work to shoot right.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:02:51 AM EST
For the record.....I currently own 3 COLT 1911 types.......YES... they did require a little work to get them to FUNCTION FLAWLESSLY.....they are all top grade models however....i do not see too many out there that compare with the quality out of box...and all things considered, pricewise, they are a very good investment as well.......[smoke]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:15:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 4:16:48 AM EST by McUZI]
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Naw, that's only if you're a cheap-ass mofo that buys a POS Filipino made, cast-frame Charles Daly and expects it to shoot like a Colt, Kimber or Springfield. I have owned over two dozen 1911s and shot far more and I have NEVER had a factory-made, major brand 1911 that needed ANY work to shoot right.
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Again, another issue that you have your head stuffed clearly up your ass. You way wish wish wish that your 1911's were viable designs in the polymer age, but again. Idealist Rick just can't see beyond his own fantasies to the clear path of the damn FACTS. I paid a whopping $150.00 for the gun, and a few more bucks for the parts. Fucking idiot. If Dalys were made in Africa, I bet you'd love them. As far as 1911's? Reliable as a Glock? Hmmmmmmmm?? C'mon son... Tell us what gun you were carrying when you waved it around to "diffuse" (Read- Too scared to take an ass whippin) the situation with the big, scary truck driver? What gun did you trust your "safety" to that day? 1911 is an arcane ass design that DOES need major overhaul out of the box to get it to work to reliabillity standards of any agency that uses it. (For christ sake the gun dosen't have a god damn feed-ramp)
Originally Posted By black&green: For the record.....I currently own 3 COLT 1911 types.......YES... they did require a little work to get them to FUNCTION FLAWLESSLY.....
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Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:18:04 AM EST
My SOCOM spec. STEEL P-14-45 converted to .45 SUPER, and .40 SUPER is great! It is fully parkerized, high end TEFLON coat over, dual recoil system w/captive inner spring, dual buffers w/ hard delrin in place of the normal steel plate at the end of the full length guide rod, clark bbl, triglide disconnect, Delask trigger, oversized pin stop that increases dwell time (time to which bbl stays locked), Wilson crio firing pin shortened 20 thousand of an inch to prevent primer failure w/high pressure loads, Wolff HD springs for mag release, magazines, recoil, MMC fully adjustable combat sights reactive, lanyard lug on flat mainspring housing, topped off with an AWC NEXUS CAN that handles full load ammo (no sub-sonic needed), all magazines are t-coated too! Not cheap to do, but consider the investment as part of my everyday self protection!
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:18:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right. If you aren't dead set on getting a 1911, I say go Sig.. Oh yeah. [url]www.sigtalk.com[/url] BEST SIG SITE ON THE WEB!!
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The SIG 220 is a great 45 but so are the Kimber and Springfield 45s. Vastly different pistols, depending on what you want. The worst 45 I ever had was a Smith & Wesson 4506 but thats not a 1911 type, still it was a POS. I have never felt the need to 'customize' a 45 to make if work, just to make it cool...same as the AR15/M16.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:19:03 AM EST
I own a couple of dozen 1911 pattern pistols, my favorite by far(other than the handbuilt $10k+ guns) for out of the box reliablity is the Springfield Professional. [url]http://www.springfieldarmory.com/prod-pstl-1911-pro.shtml[/url] I have put maybe 5000 rounds through it in the past 6 months and it has been 100% No failures of any kind and it is more accurate than I am at 20 yards.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:30:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By ECS:
Originally Posted By McUZI: Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right. If you aren't dead set on getting a 1911, I say go Sig.. Oh yeah. [url]www.sigtalk.com[/url] BEST SIG SITE ON THE WEB!!
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The SIG 220 is a great 45 but so are the Kimber and Springfield 45s. Vastly different pistols, depending on what you want. The worst 45 I ever had was a Smith & Wesson 4506 but thats not a 1911 type, still it was a POS. I have never felt the need to 'customize' a 45 to make if work, just to make it cool...same as the AR15/M16.
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My custom job was to enhance an already flawlessly operating pistol, the P-14-45 The SIG is a great weapon, but I remember many officers (which I lent 1911 pistols to while their SIG's were getting repaired), that had I think it was called K-COTE or something like that, it would chip or flake and rendure the weapon useless, they may have fixed that problem, I do not know!
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:24:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: A bunch of BS that I snipped for brevity.
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You can babble on all you want, son...I will trust my own experience. I've still had more jams out of Glocks than 1911s. I know that it bugs the hell out of you that someone who has actual experience in the matter disagrees with you, and this forces you to try to belittle their experience, but that's your problem. I recommend a qualified psychologist.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:44:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By McUZI: A bunch of BS that I snipped for brevity.
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[b]R___O___T___F___L___M___A___O!!!!!!!!!!![/b] I hate to admit it, but I am laughing out loud... [i]THAT[/i] is funny... I'm gunna have to remember that.... [:D] [:D] [:D]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:19:58 AM EST
Don't discount the Schuetzen Pistol Works (Safari Arms) 1911's. I have one 6" gun chambered in 40 Super, S/N 40SUPER-01 and I recently shot two back to back five shot groups that measured well under 1.5" at 50 yards. Thats 50 yards, not 25. If you have a Kimber or a Springfield that can do that, I would sure like to see it........
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:42:31 AM EST
Colt series 80 safety gets cursed at by the gunsmiths I know doing trigger jobs. F#%% Colt for anything they make.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 7:00:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 9:03:25 AM EST
Boy, I feel really stupid now for saying that I still like, and recommend Colt. My 1991 is very good, no problems, $550.00 NIB. And my WW2 1911 Ithaca is still going strong. The Kimbers and Springfields are excellent though.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 9:27:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By McUZI: Dude, the 1911 is the only gun that needs a thousand dollars of custimazation right out of the box to get it to shoot right. If you aren't dead set on getting a 1911, I say go Sig.. Oh yeah. [url]www.sigtalk.com[/url] BEST SIG SITE ON THE WEB!!
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[b]McUZI[/b], you're pretty knowledgable about lots of gun information. But, I have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, there are many sh*tty 1911 model pistols out there. Later Colts, especially the "1991" series and any with plastic triggers, are absolute crap. Any Norinco 1911 pistols usually don't shoot worth a damn. Charles Daly models aren't exactly noted for being high quality, either. However, I'd stake my life on many 1911 models. Kimber- it goes without saying that I would take my Kimber (Classic Custom Target model; only difference between it and a 'stock' model is its adjustable sights) with it's seven shots against nearly anything. Few guns are as accurate and as reliable out-of-the-box as a Kimber. Wilson Combat? I'd put it right up there with ultra-customized, $3,000+ into-it-already pistols. Para Ordnance? There are occasional problems that arise, but the company stands by its warranty and makes good on any complaints. Yes, the Sig is a damn good pistol. The Glock, depending on the user, can be good or a piece of shit. But, I'll still take a 1911 any day. [b]Wobblin Goblin[/b], I'd look into a Kimber. You can't go wrong for the money. Oh, and check out [url]http://www.1911forums.com[/url] for more info on the 1911. Mike
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 9:28:42 AM EST
I have a Kimber Ultra Carry.when i was comparing .45's in the store colt,springfield and kimber,the kimber just felt right to me. as to Rik and McUZI,when you two guys finally get together for a drink,let me know i'll fly down to FLA and buy the rounds.mmk
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 12:26:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By madman kirk: I have a Kimber Ultra Carry.when i was comparing .45's in the store colt,springfield and kimber,the kimber just felt right to me. as to Rik and McUZI,when you two guys finally get together for a drink,let me know i'll fly down to FLA and buy the rounds.mmk
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Will you bail us out afterwards? [:D]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 1:09:33 PM EST
Didn't American Shooter have a 10 shot 1911? I thought it was Spr. Armory? It wasn't as wide as the Para's but had a ten rd. level bottomed clip.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 1:36:47 PM EST
Rik LOL i'll be the reason we're in.mmk
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:25:50 PM EST
Having had trouble with a couple of 1911 type pistols in the distant past and one in the not so distant past I switched but I kind of missed them, anyway there are a lot of Kimbers and Springfields in the area and they appeared to be very reliable so I thought I'd try it "one" more time. I picked up a Springfield Loaded and it has been great, It has a long ways to go before I trust it, but it is failure free at this time(just under 500 rds.) It is an easy pistol to live with as it is very quick and very accurate. Good Luck, Have a nice evening Rabon...
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:49:16 PM EST
Have a Kimber Custom Classic with a lot rounds through it. Absolutely no complaints. Also have a new Para 7/45 LDA with about 500 rounds. Not 1 problem. You may not like the LDA trigger, but that is for everyone to decide for himself. I love it.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:55:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 3:53:20 PM EST by Wobblin-Goblin]
I like 1911s for what they are...historical pieces that happen to be pretty good designs (as far as I know anyway). They just look "bad-ass" in a classy sort of way. The Sigs will be used for carry and competition (plate and pin shoots). I suppose some guys feel the same way about the M1 Garand.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:20:01 PM EST
Wobblin.....almost went for the springfield loaded for $550...i could easily live with that.....just don`t really need another 1911 quite yet.....nice gun for the money...[smoke]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:51:22 PM EST
I personally like Springfield Armory's line of 1911s the best. Good luck with whatever you choose. Tyler
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 7:01:56 PM EST
Forget about all the over-priced domestic models. Get the Argentine Sistema 1927. Here's mine: [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/026/Tw/nm/M7/uQ89072.jpg[/img]. It's an exact duplicate of a prewar Colt 1911A1 and uses superior Swedish steel. All parts interchange with USGI and aftermarket mods. Price? $299 from CDNN.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 7:18:16 PM EST
I keep meaning to buy one of those Sistemas, but I can't seem to resist buying stuff like this intead... [img]http://members.aol.com/writerrik/myhomepage/coltseries80b.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US[/img]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 8:13:02 PM EST
My custom job was to enhance an already flawlessly operating pistol, the P-14-45 The SIG is a great weapon, but I remember many officers (which I lent 1911 pistols to while their SIG's were getting repaired), that had I think it was called K-COTE or something like that, it would chip or flake and rendure the weapon useless, they may have fixed that problem, I do not know![/quote] Sig no longer uses the K-cote. They finally figured out it was too soft of a finish for a duty weapon. Now they offer a blued stainless finish that should hold up much better. I have two P220's in blue that work flawlessly. I have carried one on-duty for six years. The other I paid for so it sits in a box most of the time. Some of Sigs mags need to be checked for function. The "lightning" welded mags are prone to failure (identified by zig-zag pattern on back of mag body). The spot-welds separate and the feed lips crack where they meet the back. They should not be supplying these with a newer weapon though. The new mags are smooth-back. If you go with a Sig, spend the extra $100 and get the Sig-lite or other similar night sights. It's well worth the cost.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 8:28:06 PM EST
McUzi: I used a 1911 in real combat and I'd stake my life on it. Colt, Kimber (especially Kimber), and Springfield produce damn fine pistols. The SA and Kimber pistols only need to be broken in, NO expensive gunsmithing involved. My Colt is WWII-vintage and despite having no finish is super-reliable (NO jams, Glock can't claim that) and very accurate (can put a magazine in the heart/lung region at 25 yds. in rapid fire). If Glock is soooo great, why do Marine Recon and Army SF troops carry 1911s? The Glock has a crappy trigger, almost no choices in modifications because of the Tupperware frame, and a screwy grip angle. I also haven't seen any Glocks at bullseye matches recently, I wonder why that might be?
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 10:27:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 10:30:10 PM EST by LAgunman2K]
just buy a caspian slide and frame, take it too a gunsmith, pick out the barrel and other parts you want and have him build the gun. --you wont be getting MIM parts like kimber and SA put on there gun --you wont be getting a gun made in brazil like SA --you get it built YOUR way --it will be tight and ready to go out of the box --you will pay about the same price as a kimber and get a better gun or buy a colt 1991 send it to a gunsmith for a trigger job and custom parts and have a gun as good or better than a kimber or SA, for about the same amount of money BFD if colt uses plastic mainspring housings and triggers, those parts dont fail, and you can replace those parts for $40. kimber uses MIM parts on most of there parts on there guns, from my understanding on the MIM parts is that if they are not made right, or any slight variation in the process then they come out wrong and weak. like adding too much sugar to a cake. this may happen few and far between, but there have been some parts that have broken off of kimbers in a short amount of time. i also heard it was harder to hand fit these parts. --dont bother looking at a cheap chuck daly gun --the norinco 1911s are actually good guns, cheaper than the CDs and better --1911s dont have a feed ramp, cuz they dont need one, actually the barrel is ramped, and you dont need $1000 to make one run right. my brothers 1991 runs right out of the box, and has been for years, its a good base gun to build on. (which is probably part of the reason colt produced a basic no frills 1911, expressly for the customizers) my gunsmith PREFERS to work on Colts, he says you cant beat colt parts, he talks about problems he has with fitting the Other guys parts. and if there is any problem with series 80 safety mechanism then they just convert it to a series 70, so there should be any bitching and moaning from smiths over the series 80 triggers. dont forget rock river arms 1911, my smith says they are making some of the best pistols right now.
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