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Posted: 10/29/2004 2:45:50 PM EDT
Just exactly what is our military's goal in Iraq now?
I used to think I knew the answer but I'm not so sure anymore

The situation in Iraq for our men is getting pretty damn sad



Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:52:46 PM EDT
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:56:41 PM EDT

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



That is the most misleading thing I've read here all day!

A person who references the many media sources, including print, broadcast, and internet can come up with a fairly accurate SIT-REP, of the O.I.F. AO.

It will take some effort to be sure, but your point is just plain wrong
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:58:11 PM EDT
The third time I've gotten to post this now...............................

OK here is a tactics lesson for those who have no clue what military operations are about.

We were attacked by a certain group, Islamo-fascists, who continue to be a threat. While they can be found all over the world, the concentrated in the middle east and Afganistan. In order to combat this threat, we went on the offensive.

First to Afganistan. Now that we have removed the Taliban, seen to free elections, and set up a new government the terrorists do not have near the ability to operate there and we are hunting down those who do.

Then we had to continue the fight. The remaining hotbed is in the middle east, involving Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and others. So we had to take the fight to them.

So then we choose where to fight them. I would have preferred Suadi Arabia, but we were dependant upon them for bases and logistics at the time. Iran logisticly would have been very difficult. Same for Syria.

But Iraq, now that was the obvious choice. First, we had grounds based on the 12 years of violations of both the cease fire and UN mandates. Second, the intelligence at the time showed there were WMD. We now know it was flawed, but hindsight is 20/20. Third, it shares borders with most of the nations where a threat lies.

So now the liberals scream "Vietnam" and that we are losing. But we are not. Terrorists are streaming into Iraq from all the above nations, and we are killing them. But while shortsighted liberals see that as bad, anyone with some intelligence can understand that every man, weapon, resource, and dollar that the Islamo-fascists waste in Iraq is one they cannot use against us at home or elsewhere abroad. And we got to liberate a country from a brutal dictator as a bonus. Terrorists come into Iraq every day now, wasting time, money and resources to fight us, and we whoop thier ass every time. We are fighting them  in thier backyard instead of waiting for them to pop up in ours.

Despite the claims the war was for oil, we haven't siezed the oil. In fact, lowering or ending the sanctions would have opened the oil to the market and it would be flowing at a much higher rate and lower cost, so why go to war?

And we are winning, and will win, despite how little confidence some have in our troops.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:59:35 PM EDT

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



You are correct.  
I'm asking because I have not been to Iraq lately and I don't know what the situation is like.
If you been there and know what the situation is like please enlighten me... I'm willing to listen and learn.

What do/should we do if everybody in the whole fuckin country is shitheads... kill them all and let God sort it out?      
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:00:43 PM EDT
Secure the OIL FIELDS and bayonet some zulus
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:15:25 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



You are correct.  
I'm asking because I have not been to Iraq lately and I don't know what the situation is like.
If you been there and know what the situation is like please enlighten me... I'm willing to listen and learn.

What do/should we do if everybody in the whole fuckin country is shitheads... kill them all and let God sort it out?      



I haven't been there.  I don't claim to know what the deal is.  All I know is that the guys in my unit who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan paint a very different picture than the media.  This leads me to believe its not as bad as the majority of people think.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:15:33 PM EDT
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:23:12 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



You are correct.  
I'm asking because I have not been to Iraq lately and I don't know what the situation is like.
If you been there and know what the situation is like please enlighten me... I'm willing to listen and learn.

What do/should we do if everybody in the whole fuckin country is shitheads... kill them all and let God sort it out?      



I haven't been there.  I don't claim to know what the deal is.  All I know is that the guys in my unit who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan paint a very different picture than the media.  This leads me to believe its not as bad as the majority of people think.



I don't give a shit what the media reports.
I too believe that the most of our boys (and girls) in Iraq believe in this fight... God bless them all and their families.

I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of the battle which has gone from fighting the Iraqi army to fighting the insurgents.  What is the next stage?  Where is this battle leading to and how will we get their?

Again, I'm just trying to learn.    
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:25:22 PM EDT
It is an insurgency.

Insurgencies are very difficult, when the insurgents are offerring a new form of government, to which the general populus is sympathetic.
In this case however, they offer nothing.
Death, or the threat of death.
NO insurgency who does this has ever succeeded.

Terror does not win hearts and minds.




Read the "Small Wars Manual".
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:30:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:49:40 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



That is the most misleading thing I've read here all day!

A person who references the many media sources, including print, broadcast, and internet can come up with a fairly accurate SIT-REP, of the O.I.F. AO.

It will take some effort to be sure, but your point is just plain wrong




Actually dskeet  is correct.  The censorship effort is unbelievable.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:06:42 PM EDT

Quoted:
Actually dskeet  is correct.  The censorship effort is unbelievable.  



So what you are telling me, is that a person of reasonable intelligence, above average motivation, and regular access to public information CANNOT comprehend the fact situation in Iraq?

Ok, if that's the world you want to live in, I won't argue with you.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:08:05 PM EDT
What we are doing is denying terrorists one more haven to live/train/and get supplies and backing from. Iraq will never be an American style democracy, and that is not the goal. The goal is to make Iraq a stable, non-hostile nation, which will stabalize the entire mid-east as a result.

Plus there is the humanitarian issue of helping an oppressed people, if anyone cares. I can tell, outside of the cities, these people don't know enough to be political and really like raising sheep. That is all.

Plus, we helped out the Kurds (who are a seperate ethnic group from Arabs). These are the people Saddam gassed and practiced genocide on. They are worth helping. Their cities are cleaner than any other part of Iraq, and their military is far more motivated and aggressive than the arabs. They successfully defended their part of Iraq from Saddam for 10 years, with the help of the no fly zone in N. Iraq.

It is not a mess, it is a war. America has always successfully stood nations back on their feet. Only a small majority of Iraqis are terrorists, along with foreign infiltrators.

Serving your country is worthwhile, and the mission in Iraq is in the best interests of America. That is my humble opinion.

BTW, I was there during the invasion, and spent a year over there.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:08:17 PM EDT
Kick ass, take names (repeat as necessary)
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:08:47 PM EDT
Google "The great game" PNAC, the energy task force papers that were declassified by court order and do some reading.

This isn't all about Islamics with boxcutters.

There isn't a simple answer to your question, the reasons are many and the stated objectives, while part of the equation, are not its solution.

We could have fought them over there in Afghanistan and Saudi.

Afghanistan and Saudi would have served as a base over there as well.

Democracy in Iraq is the last thing we want, and Saddam was an enemy of Bin-laden.

So the typical answers to your questions don't really seem to add up, and the left makes a lot of noise about it for that reason.

It does add up, we're just not privy to all the variables.

We're there in an attempt to preserve the American way of life, from multiple threats.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:12:54 PM EDT
Good question, because we need to send 82 billion dollars to support them over there....


Come on,  Lets find a way to get it over quicker.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:52:38 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Actually dskeet  is correct.  The censorship effort is unbelievable.  



So what you are telling me, is that a person of reasonable intelligence, above average motivation, and regular access to public information CANNOT comprehend the fact situation in Iraq?

Ok, if that's the world you want to live in, I won't argue with you.



Before I joined the Army last November, I read everything I could find about the Iraq war.  I followed it very closely.

Since I've been in the Army, I have talked to all kinds of people who have been there performing a variety of jobs.  What I hear from the guys who have been there is completely different than anything I have ever seen on TV or read in an article.

No, I do not think you can have an accurate understanding of the situation over there without going there.  What you see on TV or read in papers is biased in some way or another, but what you see right in front of your face while standing on the streets of Baghdad is an unquestionable fact.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:37:59 PM EDT
The new-new reason is so we can turn Iraq into a giant Roach Motel for terrorist fighters.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:44:48 PM EDT

Quoted:
The new-new reason is so we can turn Iraq into a giant Roach Motel for terrorist fighters.



No, troll, that's not the administration's reason for invading, it's simply a side-benefit.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:41:36 PM EDT
Mass the terrorists in one location and destroy them.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:38:57 AM EDT

Quoted:
No, I do not think you can have an accurate understanding of the situation over there without going there.  What you see on TV or read in papers is biased in some way or another, but what you see right in front of your face while standing on the streets of Baghdad is an unquestionable fact.



So, using your logic, Sean Penn is a reliable source of information, cuz he went over there, you know?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:46:55 AM EDT

Quoted:
The new-new reason is so we can turn Iraq into a giant Roach Motel for terrorist fighters.




It's working.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:27:33 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



That is the most misleading thing I've read here all day! ho
It will take some effort to be sure, but your point is just plain wrong hr



Actually dskeet  is correct.  The censorship effort is unbelievable.  



Sorry for the hijack, but, JPPJ, who's doing the censoring? Are you implying military censorship, or do you mean media bias?

About another issue brought up in this thread: to say that unless you have been there -- here, in my case -- you have no idea what the situation is like is not entirely accurate.

Any individual can give you an idea what he or she sees, but that is going to be a relatively small slice for most of us. I have no firsthand knowledge of what is going on anywhere except where I am. The same goes for every other person who is here or who has been here. Being here doesn't make us instant experts on the total picture.

The way you are going to get an idea of what is going on here is to soak in lots of information from any and every source you can (yes, even those you don't care for) and arrive at -- not jump to -- your own conclusions based on all the information available. Then you'll need to come to grips with the fact that you still don't have a complete picture, and probably won't for a very long time, if ever.

Regards,
Chris
Baghdad

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:31:48 AM EDT
I expect we will pull out of Iraq as soon as Bush gets elected under some bullshit pretense ---


It has accomplished his goals at that point.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:53:38 AM EDT
The goal is twofold: to secure access to oil, and to get as many of our troups combat experience as possible.  That way, when the big war with a certain Asian country comes, we will have a cadre of soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen with actual combat experience--giving us a distinct advantage.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:56:23 AM EDT

Quoted:
I expect we will pull out of Iraq as soon as Bush gets elected under some bullshit pretense ---


It has accomplished his goals at that point.




That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read.  In fact, there maybe a step up.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:58:36 AM EDT
Well hopefully its to kill as many of those fucking shitheads as possible.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:33:27 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I expect we will pull out of Iraq as soon as Bush gets elected under some bullshit pretense ---


It has accomplished his goals at that point.




That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read.  



Yep.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:35:16 AM EDT
To win the hearts and minds of the people.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:39:30 AM EDT

Quoted:
Stabilize the country, which is done by eliminating the shitheads.
Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the situation is like.



That about sums it up. Of course, Bosnia and Kosovo have been "stablized" for how many years now? Different situation of course, but Bush certainly could have pulled troops out of those two Clinton-Quagmires when he took office.

I think that's the biggest thing for people to keep in mind: Unless you've been there you don't know shit except what the media spoon feeds you. This goes for the politicians who go there to "visit the troops", with a huge security detail and all the luxuries of home, while the troops remain and live in the dust and dirt.

Of all the talking heads on the news that say we aren't getting anything accomplished over there and nothing is improving, how man of those people have actually been there. Or better yet, how often do they bring on soldiers who were actually there and took great pride in the job they are doing. I've seen a total of NONE, unless they were kicked out of the country for being fucking stupid (like the prison guard morons).

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 10:19:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 11:00:08 AM EDT
there is only one goal for our troops to fulfill - gain the best interest for USA. Not just for the invasion of Iraq. The rule applies every military actions for American history.

believe me! if there is no interest for USA, the troops will not be there. It is all BS to hear "liberate Iraqis", "free Iraqis" or "rebuild Iraq as a free contry". All in all, we do that because it fits US interest to build a american made country there. Sadly, it costs thousands of American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. The worst part is - no one knows if it will work.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 11:02:21 AM EDT
To kill as many a-hole terrorist as possible, while they are in the open. Blood makes the grass grow.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 12:09:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 12:12:50 PM EDT

Quoted:
I expect we will pull out of Iraq as soon as Bush gets elected under some bullshit pretense ---


It has accomplished his goals at that point.



yep.

+1
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 12:18:25 PM EDT
Kids, kids, kids. Don't you ever listen to your Uncle CW?

First, get a map and locate Iraq on it. Notice Iraq's location relative to other countries and large bodies of water.

Next, try to think about how you would like to implement your foreign policy in that region say, oh, in the next 10-20 years.

Finally, try to remember how we fought the first Gulf War.

Class dismissed.

CW
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 1:16:21 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I expect we will pull out of Iraq as soon as Bush gets elected under some bullshit pretense ---


It has accomplished his goals at that point.



yep.

+1



-1.  It's an incredibly stupid assertion with nothing to support it but hot air.  Don't be gullible.
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