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Posted: 9/21/2004 8:23:32 PM EST
Was just watching footage of soldiers in Iraq who are upset about being sent off to war. Some of them were complaining that they enlisted for college money, but instead were sent to war. These folks were saying they would vote Democrat and support Kerry because they didn't join the military to fight in a war. Isn't it a reasonable possibility that if you join the Army, that combat operations could require you to be thrown into a hostile wartime scenario?

It pisses me off to hear these soldiers bitching about how GW falsely lured them into the military with promises of college money and then he sends them to Iraq to fight where they could possibly be killed.

I just don't understand the stupidity of anyone who serves in the military fully expecting there be zero chance of being sent off into combat. By joining the military voluntarily since there is no draft, isn't an enlistee exorbitantly increasing his/her chances of being sent to war. Why join the military with the ignorant perception that there's no chance in hell of being called up for combat duty?

WTF were these idiots thinking?

What do you think of soldiers who bitch about being sent off to war?

HS1
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:26:27 PM EST
You took the words right out of my mouth.

The only thing worse is someone who is a minority who claims that it is "Racist" for them to have to go.

Zen


"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:30:14 PM EST
Well I thought of joining several times, college money etc were not the reasons I wanted to join, even though thats what they tried to push. I didnt join, but I dont think I would be bitching if I had and was getting deployed.
Now my parents who didnt want me to join say how bad it would be if I was deployed, I need to talk to them about it again soon when Im pissed off.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:39:16 PM EST
Those are the same folks that will try to invoke "conscientious objector" status. I always want to ask them what part of :

Enlistment Oath

In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


In the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, _________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of ___________________________________ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ________________________ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

don't they get? Where in there does it say anything about college?


Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:41:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 8:42:09 PM EST by Da_Bunny]
Wah, wah, wah... all GW's fault... fucking Democrats are traitors.

War is scary, poor baboos.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:44:00 PM EST
We had a saying in the Suck, "A bitching Marine is a happy Marine". When they stop bitching, there's a problem.

If they want to complain, let them complain as long as they go and do their duty.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:46:07 PM EST
I think they're pukes trying to reap the benefits of joining up, while disregarding the responsibilities.

They all deserve a good kick in the pants.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:46:28 PM EST
I remember my first weekend drill a group of us were asked why we wanted to join. Most of the group said for the college $.... I just said because I have always wanted to. For many it may suck to leave and go to war but that is what being in the military is all about. It seemed like it would never happen... But we all knew that someday it would. AIRBORNE!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:46:54 PM EST
These guys are in Iraq doing their job of choice. Does the fact that they are disgruntled negatively affect their ability to survive? Wouldn't it behoove them to get their heads screwed on right and focus on not getting killed? I know being distracted by constantly questioning your commitment while operating in a combat zone will get you killed. Bitch when you get home. Like Kerry did!

WTF Over?

HS1
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:47:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:48:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 8:48:43 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
We had a saying in the Suck, "A bitching Marine is a happy Marine". When they stop bitching, there's a problem.

If they want to complain, let them complain as long as they go and do their duty.



Yup. When I hear bitching and griping among my soldiers, all is generally OK. When they stop, they are either pissed or all up to something thats not kosher.

When they start fighting amongst each other things have gotten bad and problems need to be handled ASAP.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:49:31 PM EST
Hello!!! It's an ALL-VOLUNTEER military!!! They knew that they might see combat...if you don't want to see combat, don't enlist!!!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:00:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
We had a saying in the Suck, "A bitching Marine is a happy Marine". When they stop bitching, there's a problem.

If they want to complain, let them complain as long as they go and do their duty.



Bingo!

Even if you join under the auspices of college money/job skills/duty station/recruting ads/et al - you generally wind up figuring out that you have more then earned that money/job skill/et al - uncle sugar always gets a better deal then you - PVT Joe Snuffy. It dosen't really matter how many incentives are attached to military service - the bottom line is that is SERVICE. I joined thinking, among other things, that wow this is alot of college money or this is a great job skill - but in the end it came down to serving my country and I WANTED TO DO IT, TOOK PRIDE IN DOING IT AND WOULD DO IT AGAIN IN A HEARTBEAT.

One other note - I expect enlisted soldiers to bitch, it is part of their job description. But doing it outside of the proper channels is fucking unprofessional (unless there is a legitimate issue) and if their chain of command lets it stand then this is indeed a sad, sad day. Calling all NCOs - it is time for some motivational training in the form of PT

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:03:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:04:40 PM EST by rayra]
Put'em on Point.

No patience for whiny children or their protesting mommas, when the bill comes due.


Semper Fi.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:03:58 PM EST
I don't think they have anything to bitch about. There are some of us that would love to join for the sense of duty but can't because of medical reasons. When I met R Lee Ermey earlier this year we chatted a little bit about how if a person wanted to join the military that they should be able to without question about certian conditions. I can't stand when people bitch about getting shipped off because they signed up for the college money. Hell, I am the proud son of a paratrooper. I have alot of family in the military and not a single one of them complained about being deployed anywhere. They all had a sense of pride to serve and fight for thier country. I just wished I was eligble to join. I would try to follow my dad's footsteps and try to be a "Sky Soldier". Thanks Arvin
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:06:29 PM EST
It pisses me off to no end. They should shut the hell up. We've got a few of these whiners in my unit. When they say this deployment isn't what they signed up for I tell them "Motherfucker, you signed up for the Army!" I joined at age 31, right after 9/11, while married with two kids under 5, this is what I signed up for!

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:10:18 PM EST
Let them bitch, as long as they do their duty.

I used to bitch all day long, but I got the job done, and I got it done full throttle.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:21:38 PM EST
Granted they can complain as long as they're there, but personally I'd much rather share a trench with someone who wanted to be there when rounds were being exchanged.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:29:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:32:09 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By leelaw:
I think they're pukes trying to reap the benefits of joining up, while disregarding the responsibilities.

They all deserve a good kick in the pants.



I wonder, does the Army still serve potatoes?

If not, maybe they have some 55gal drums of poo which needs to be burned?

Bitching is one thing...

Saying that they never intended to fight is another....

If you join the Army or Marines as an enlested soldier, you should expect to fight...

If you don't want to fight & want to be military, enlist in the Air Force, and let your officers do the fighting (not a dig on the AF, a statement of fact: AF enlisted, except Security Police, generally do not fight. AF officers (Pilots) do)....
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:30:49 PM EST
I look at it 2 ways:

If they bitch because they never expected the military to be used militarily and thought the armed forces were a free ride, then they are fucking retards and should be kicked in the ass until they come around.

If they bitch because they are being sent off to war but do their job reguardless, then they can bitch all they want because they are "man enough" to fulfill their responsibilities. No one wants to go off to some foriegn land and die. Even Patton knew this: "You dont win a war by going off and dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."

Its like playing paintball with the expectation of never being shot and then whining about it like a little girl when you get shot.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:40:52 PM EST
You don't join up to serve yourself, you join to serve your country. First things first.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:43:00 PM EST
The soldiers in the video had been exposed to the brutality and attrocities of war. Those who have served in combat know the hell as reality and perhaps questioning a prior commitment is human nature. Those soldiers who decided to verbalize their frustration on this video should reaccess the integrity of thier resolve and the depth of their character. Post war whistleblowers and shitslingers are running amuck in politics and I find them reprehensible. It takes greater character to fulfill a commitment to wage war than it does to run out of the burning house screaming "fire!!! fire!!!"

That about tells you why GW has my vote. Kerry is subversive. He proved that post Vietnam and again with Iraq. The priveledge inherent with being in a position where second guessing makes the observer seem keen and astute, is the people don't appreciate the "I would have done it this way" attitude from someone who is warming the bench

HS1
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:49:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:49:53 PM EST by nchapa]

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
I look at it 2 ways:

If they bitch because they never expected the military to be used militarily and thought the armed forces were a free ride, then they are fucking retards and should be kicked in the ass until they come around.

If they bitch because they are being sent off to war but do their job reguardless, then they can bitch all they want because they are "man enough" to fulfill their responsibilities. No one wants to go off to some foriegn land and die. Even Patton knew this: "You dont win a war by going off and dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."





I think most of us would be bitching and complaining about something if we were there, I know I did when I was in the service, Did that stop me from doing my job well, heck no I did a damn good job and I think complaing helped me concentrate.

As far as the guys in iraq complaining, we should be proud of them for what they are doing.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:50:16 PM EST
My brother is a squad leader in the 173rd ABN. When he was in Iraq he got a new guy in his squad straight out of AIT. The first thing this guy tells my brother is I am a contientous objector and that he wont do anything unless my brother respects him. So my bro tossed all of the kids shit out of the room they were all living in. Then he went straight up the ladder and the little shitbag got a few months in a jail in Germany to think about his situation. The kid actually told the Colonel the same shit he told my brother. The most screwed up part of this is the kid quit his job at Intel and joined after 9/11. He didnt want to fight but decided to be a combat engineer. Wtf did he think they did? They sure as hell dont build flower boxes. Luckily when the kid got back to Iraq he didnt get somebody killed.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:50:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:51:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:52:09 PM EST by WizardOfAhs]
I find it shameful!

I've been wanting to go in and fight since the war started whilst Uncle Sam says I'm too old to return to the military.

If all the cowards who don't want to fight could manage to get the DOD to let guys like me back in to fight, I'd gladly take their place. Of course, I'd be up for warcrimes shortly after my arrival, I'm really up for beheadding Al Zarqawi LIVE on Al Jazeera. I think it would be well worth the brig time. Just keep me in smokes, bacon and dirty pix of the BOTD, that's all I ask..

Edited for political correctness...
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:55:05 PM EST
If they are bitching amongst themselves its cool but when they start doing it in front of a camera they become crybabies IMO.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:09:14 PM EST
It sickens and enrages me when people in the miltary complain about having to do what a military does - FIGHT FUCKING WARS.


These blood sucking social parasites should be the ones in the very front of the front lines all in one unit of like minded cry babies. Let them take the brunt of the enemy's attack while the honorable service men mop up and get to go home.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:17:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 10:20:01 PM EST by kabal57]
Dumbasses.

Being in the military now, and preparing to deploy to Iraq by the end of this year, It pisses me off to no end when I read about stupid people who joined the military for "college money".

Fuckin retards. If all they wanted was college money they should have applied for a scholarship. I wish these dipshits would get it through their heads, the military FIGHTS WARS!!!
If those dumb fucks were too stupid to see that when they signed the contract, then they get what they deserve. I just hope shitbags like this aren't the ones who are guarding my 6 in Iraq.

All the way! Airborne!!!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:23:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By HighStrung1:
Was just watching footage of soldiers in Iraq who are upset about being sent off to war. Some of them were complaining that they enlisted for college money, but instead were sent to war. These folks were saying they would vote Democrat and support Kerry because they didn't join the military to fight in a war. Isn't it a reasonable possibility that if you join the Army, that combat operations could require you to be thrown into a hostile wartime scenario?

It pisses me off to hear these soldiers bitching about how GW falsely lured them into the military with promises of college money and then he sends them to Iraq to fight where they could possibly be killed.

WTF were these idiots thinking?

What do you think of soldiers who bitch about being sent off to war?

HS1

So, those that think GW lured them into the military are either lying or not very smart. If they joined after he became president, it was pretty obvious that we were at war not too long after he took office.

If they joined before then, they are lying. Either way, they are fools.

I wonder how many of these "soldiers" in "Iraq" were actually that. It just sounds too convenient and the things they are saying are just plain stupid. They sound too much like DU trash.

When I was in the military, you could get in deep shit talking trash about the CinC like that.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:27:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By nchapa:

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
I look at it 2 ways:

If they bitch because they never expected the military to be used militarily and thought the armed forces were a free ride, then they are fucking retards and should be kicked in the ass until they come around.

If they bitch because they are being sent off to war but do their job reguardless, then they can bitch all they want because they are "man enough" to fulfill their responsibilities. No one wants to go off to some foriegn land and die. Even Patton knew this: "You dont win a war by going off and dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."





I think most of us would be bitching and complaining about something if we were there, I know I did when I was in the service, Did that stop me from doing my job well, heck no I did a damn good job and I think complaing helped me concentrate.

As far as the guys in iraq complaining, we should be proud of them for what they are doing.



Bitching and complaining is completely different from what these fools are saying. I bitched when I was in, but not about "joining for the college money" and "GW lied" or "I'm voting for Kerry". That is assinine bullshit, that is not bitching.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:33:07 PM EST
I joined the Navy with a guarantee to be a Corpsman specifically to go to Iraq. I don't care about college money. I hate people who joined just for the money. Don't work at McDonald's if you don't like meat.

Fighting in a war for your country is probably the most important thing you will ever do.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:42:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:47:04 PM EST
I saw a video about the iraq war not to long ago, in fact I own it.

A group of soldiers are bitching about the war, then they turn to one soldier and asked how he feels. He simply replys "it doesn't matter what I think"

Kind of sad but true and he knew it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:09:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 11:10:07 PM EST by wetidlerjr]

What Do You Think Of Enlisted Soldiers Who Bitch About Being Sent Off To War?


I think soldiers bitch no matter what happens and I think some people enlist thinking they will never have to go to combat. It has always been that way and it is not likely to change any time soon. I am not surprised by this. No ads (that I am aware of) for joining the military mention the chance of getting killed or wounded. Mostly adventure, college money and other fine inducements are emphasized. Some figure they can take a chance and never have to go to combat but then GWB comes along and provides a war that spoils their plans. Oh well, I guess you win some and you lose some ! Most of these people are apolitical and just see the military as a means to an end. Is this OK ? Not as far as I am concerned as I don't live that way but many do and many will continue to. I won't lose any sleep over somebody playing the odds and losing. The answer to the problem ? I don't know but send 'em to the sandbox anyway as that's part of the bargain. Maybe after a little danger in their lives, they will think things out a little better.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:15:37 PM EST
So they're going to vote for a motherfucker that doesn't support them ... simply because they joined to go to college and didn't think they'd have to ever actually fulfil the duty of an American soldier?

Boo-fucking-hoo.

Sound like a bunch of crybabies and idiots to boot. WTF did they think basic training was for? So they could fend off the upper classmen during Freshmen hazing?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:25:58 AM EST
I think they're idiotic wimps. If you joined the military anytime after 9-11-01 and didn't realize there was a chance you'd be going to war then you're the biggest moron who ever walked the earth.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:36:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
I think they're idiotic wimps. If you joined the military anytime after 9-11-01 and didn't realize there was a chance you'd be going to war then you're the biggest moron who ever walked the earth.



+10000
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:45:39 AM EST
Don't take the job if you can't handle doing the work.

r/s

Dan
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:46:42 AM EST
They take the money without thinking that the price for service could be more than they are willing to give.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:49:57 AM EST
I have a pretty low opinion of them.

They are genereally the only ones who will talk to the media. Real soldiers are doing something, and don't have time/want to talkt to the media.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:55:56 AM EST
Them -> <- Me


They like the sweet candy but are not willing to pay. LOSERS!

Samuel
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:58:26 AM EST
They suck, and I'll bet most are not in the infantry.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:02:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 4:03:10 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
I'm patiently waiting until fall of '05.

That will be four years since 911.
Four years of high op tempo, and mobilized reservists.
Anyone who is in their first elistment, will have enlisted POST 911.
They will all be well aware of what that enlistment entails.

No more whining...
Not that I've ever heard a MARINE complain about deployments. Quite opposite, I've heard MARINES complain that we're not deploying enough.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:05:13 AM EST
Send them to the front of the front of the frontiest ines.
They will quiet eventually.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:16:25 AM EST
I'm sorry anyone raising their right hand and swearing the oath has to realise at some point you just might be called upon to fulfill your duties. They are friggin idiots to think otherwise.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:16:41 AM EST
Has something changed? Did I miss something? When I was in the Corps we were expressly forbidden to speak to the press or give interviews. When you serve, you don't get to enjoy all the rights and the Constitution, you are there to defend them for others.

Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:22:18 AM EST
Someone wrote that every E-1, E-2, and E-3 and every 2ndLT in the Army or Marines now joined after 9/11/2001.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:23:32 AM EST
howster<-----bitched for not being deployed enough........send me the "call". ill go back......sounds like some nco needs to do some tree line counciling.......


sgt of marines
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:27:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 4:33:31 AM EST by drache]
Quite frankly, this pisses me off more than just about anything else in the world.

Yes, bitching is fine. I'm well versed in the "a bitching Marine is a happy Marine" dogma.
I did it myself and it really is true. When I was really pissed about something I didn't bitch. that's when you know something is wrong.

However, when I did complain it was about the method of doing something. i.e. "that's the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard,.......Sir!"or "I hate getting up at the butt crack of dawn, walking 25 miles, carrying all this worthless shit, just to end up right back where we friggin started!"

Never, not even once, did I complain about a mission. (aside from operational iniquities in some of the planning/execution) Never, did I think for even a second that I was ONLY there to collect college money. Never did I think that I was going to get something from good ole Uncle Sam without GIVING a hell of a lot in return. Never did I forget that I'm SERVING my country, not serving myself.

These whiny little bitches make me want to puke. "I didn't sign up for this." BS! This is EXACTLY what you signed up for you f*&%ing ingrate!

Not to mention almost every Marine I ever met FAR preferred deployment to sitting in the damn barracks collecting dust.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:30:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
If you don't want to fight & want to be military, enlist in the Air Force, and let your officers do the fighting (not a dig on the AF, a statement of fact: AF enlisted, except Security Police, generally do not fight. AF officers (Pilots) do)....



There are a good number of AF Vehicle Operators (AFSC 2T1X1) in Iraq now running convoys.
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