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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/21/2003 3:43:53 PM EST
Class of 16...1 woman, all others men. We were all asked to go up to the front of the class to go through the motions of loading, chambering, decocking (if applicable), dryfiring, and releasing magazine (all with empty guns). These guys were all holding the guns with shaky hands, and fumbling with the basic moves to the point that made me think they should not be having firearms at all. One guy racked his slide by putting his hand in front of his muzzle and pushing back...with his finger on the trigger. 3/4 of them had finger on the trigger problem. The instructor had to tap them on the back of the head to remind them. You do it once it's a tap. Twice it's a harder tap. A third time you go home. Several brought guns so new they were still in the plastic wrap...obviously never shot them until today at class. One guy had no magazine for his Springfield 1911. One Renewal lady was so uncomfortable with her semi-auto (a really nice Smith and Wesson, too) she could barely stand to hold it. The motions described above took minutes... So, these are the TX CCW...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:49:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By clean_cut: One Renewal lady was so uncomfortable with her semi-auto (a really nice Smith and Wesson, too)
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isn't that a oxymoron? but yeah you are right I pretty much had the same opinion while attending some gun classes. and don't even bring up the firing range!!! flame suit on I really think there should be a one time class for owning a gun. I see quite a few people who either don't care about shooting or are just idiots at the range. example two guys about 21 had no idea how to load there glock I take it they were new shooters but man glocks are simple to operate I was about to help them but figured why not let the range master take care of this.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:54:10 PM EST
... Your not alone in Texas. I've seen the same shit in both the original and renewal classes in Arizona. ... I've wondered home many of these people actually carry (not just the permit). ... Oh well, they got rights too.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:58:32 PM EST
Must be shitty instructors. All those that I have seen clearly show how a gun works as well as how to properly handle it **before** the students lay hands on theirs. That being said, an idiot in my class had no holster for his Glock.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:02:17 PM EST
Man, the class was so easy...you just had to be there and be awake. Everyone passed, but I wonder if some should have. Shooting was done at 3 yds, 7 yds, and 15 yds - 50 rounds total from each person. I brought my Kahr PM9 and was able to put 47 rounds in a basketball-sized circle in COM of silhouette. (nothing to brag about). Others could only put 1/2 their rounds inside the circle. The instructor said, you know those holes in the white space of the paper above the shoulder - I call em "laywer holes"! Most had full-sized 1911's...some were pretty tricked out. About that Smith and Wesson semi-auto, I used to look down on them, but some models are nice - the 3913 and some others. Lady who had one had an all-stainless 9mm that was actually pretty (finish-wise). I wonder if it was a custom finish. Anyway, but I don't like frame-mounted safeties... I keep thinking these people will kill themselves or innocent bystanders. (?)
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:03:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 4:04:19 PM EST by Sumo2000]
I saw much of the same thing when I took my class/qualification. The guy next to me at the firing line was completely missing a silhouette target that was 3 yards away, not even getting his rounds on paper on a big assed target like that. The idea of someone like that actually having to fire their gun for real is scary. There was another guy who kept asking the instructor how to shoot someone & get away with it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:06:17 PM EST
Weird. Every person in my class performed very well, and all passed the shooting test. I wouln't have called that one at the beginning of the day. One guy didn't even own a gun, but learned and shot very well. I wonder if the inept people you describe above will even "use" their CHL and actually carry. My bet is most won't...it's too "scary". On the other hand, it's possible just having the liscense will give them some false confidence about their ability to draw, handle, and shoot their weapon. To me, that's what's "scary"... --ZERO
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:09:28 PM EST
I had a little old lady standing next to me who couldn't load her magazine. The instructor couldn't get her squared away so I finally showed her how to hold her mag base on the table and load that way. She later told me that between the noise and the smell she almost passed out while shooting. [shock]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:11:07 PM EST
A lot of people don't do well with the pressure of an expert watching them, when they are not extremely proficient with a task. I think it's great that new owners are taking a class! They are getting the advice of an expert, rather than relying on a friend, or someone who may have not much experience than they do. I would demand my money back if they said I had to go home after 3 mistakes. I took the class last year, & I know it's not cheep, but it is necessary in Texas if you want a ccp. I went to class with only 1 mag for my brand new kimber .45, & ended up borrowing 1 for the part where we had to use to mags in shooting. I would rather see the people like you described in a class room setting, getting good instruction, & help on their 1st experience than on the range next to me by them selves trying to figure it out as they go. I don't like it when old people drive, & get in my way, but hey, they have to get around too. I have to be courteous to them ,& respect their wrights even if I don't like it. Even people who don't know squat about guns have a right to try & protect themselves. You had the good fortune of seeing newbies get their feet wet, & how to help in the event someone ask you for your help in learning how to shoot. Count this as a really good experience, & look for a chance to use your new experience to help the firearms challenged people of America. Spread the power, & pass the ammo!
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:14:55 PM EST
That isn't scary. Scary is watching cops act the same way during their qualification. You KNOW they will be carrying their weapons - and we all depend on their competency. Odds are, the average CCL holder is more competent than the average cop with his / her firearm. THAT is scary.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:15:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/21/2003 4:18:05 PM EST by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:17:04 PM EST
I was at Carter's Country in Spring.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:18:54 PM EST
My parents took it together a few years ago, they got the exact same score (95%) and had almost the exact same shot dispersion. I mean, mom had a "Lawyer shot" to the right of the target's "face," and dad had one to the left... They both had the same numbers in the shoulder, and in the COM. That was pretty weird... Dad was using a borrowed Smith 10mm, 'cause he usually carries his 3 inch Smith .38, until he got his 9mm recently... Mom used the Bersa .380 dad got her for her birthday... People are just stupid, though.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:19:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:35:31 PM EST
My firearms instructor is very good. The carry class was very good. He wouldn't let two guys qualify with the 1911's they brought. He allowed some guys to qualify with 1911's but two of them brought competition guns with way to light of a trigger pull. There was one lady who pulled out a .25 jam-o-matic, fully loaded, out of her purse to qualify with. She also shot a range gun that night. You one side of me says "people should have to take extensive firearm classes to own and gun but certainlly should have to take advance classes to carry a firearm" but that would be in effect "gun control". You don't have to take a class to excercise your 1st admendment right, if you did we would have better media and reporting in this country. I do think people should have to receive more extensive training to carry, right or wrong.I have taken the time and money to learn more advanced firearm training and I am still surprised at how unprepaired and how little I knew of gun fighting tactics. I never even practiced drawing my gun! I had a gun on me though!
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:39:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Adam_White: That isn't scary. Scary is watching cops act the same way during their qualification. You KNOW they will be carrying their weapons - and we all depend on their competency.
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I am not depending on the law to "Protect me" that is what I trust in my Kimber to do![:D] Everyone in my class did very well with a about 3 out of 25 scoring 250 and about 3 more scoring 248! There was this beautiful young lady there that had a S&W 3913LS 9mm. She did so good on the shooting I decided to take her home with me![:D] Of course she was my wife so she wouldn't have went home with anyone else![:D] She does carry hers with her most of the time and we discuss scenarios from time to time to make sure we will know what the other one is going to do. BigDozer66
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:56:53 PM EST
I suggest LFI-1 by Massad Ayoob, he will turn a fumbling bimbo into a hardened combat shooter in 5 very intense days.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:03:28 PM EST
Tom Giviens in Memphis, TN is no bullshit, pin your ears back end the gun fight, and all biz when it comes to firearm training
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:26:08 PM EST
Kinda reminds me of my CCW class. It was the first time I fired a handgun, but I was still the best shot in the class. This was because of lots of practice with airguns at home. Surprisingly, the class was 2 guys (including me) and 4 girls. The other guy was in his 50s or so (I think) and said that he had been handling guns his whole life, but had never heard of keeping your finger off of the trigger or watching the front sight. It was also the full NRA Pistol class, notable since there isn't much of a class requirement to get a FL CCW.
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