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Posted: 10/25/2013 12:42:37 AM EST
Many middle-class Americans apparently aren't expecting to live their golden years in leisurely retirement.

A hefty 34 percent of them think they will work until at least the age of 80, because they haven't saved enough for retirement, according to a Wells Fargo study survey conducted by Harris Interactive.

That's up from 25 percent in 2011 and 30 percent in 2012.

But 37 percent say they'll never retire and will work until they are too sick or die.

What's the solution to this?

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Personal-Finance/middle-class-retire-work/2013/10/23/id/532672#ixzz2ij1x5icL
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

LINK
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 12:43:13 AM EST
Tell me about it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 12:52:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 12:59:19 AM EST
Sounds about right. I will die at my business.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:02:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Oh well. I enjoy being retired.

For "middle class" people you pretty much have to be debt free before retiring to make it work. Taking on a new 30 year mortgage when you're 45 years old is not the way to go about it.
View Quote


Unless your mortgage is @ 4% and your investments are returning 15%.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:04:57 AM EST
You see it in threads here.

People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc...

People live for the here and now.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:09:19 AM EST
From the article:

Further, 40 percent say a large unexpected healthcare expense represents their biggest retirement fear, while and 37 percent list the loss or reduction of Social Security as fear No. 1.
View Quote

This is proceeding as planned (government dependence)

As for the stock market, only 24 percent of the middle class view stocks as a good investment for retirement. Meanwhile, 45 percent say "the stock market doesn't benefit people like me."

A majority (52 percent) say they shun stocks because "I am afraid to lose my nest egg in the ups and downs of the market."
View Quote


This despite the market's historical average return of around 10-11%...

vs the expected -30% return for social security for Gen X'ers.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:14:16 AM EST
Got a better link than Newsmax?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:17:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:38:36 AM EST
9 more years to go. Debt Free.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 1:56:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 1:57:26 AM EST by Orbital-Burn]
I will never retire.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:03:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
You see it in threads here.

People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc...

People live for the here and now.
View Quote


Very true. I read an article once that said the primary reason most middle class Americans struggle with retirement savings is parked in their driveway.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:03:34 AM EST
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:21:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.
View Quote



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:23:05 AM EST
When you look at what inflation can do to savings it's no wonder.

Your million dollar nest egg becomes worth 10% of what it was and you're screwed.

You bust your ass to provide for retirement and STILL wind up in the FSA just to stay alive.

I ain't goin' nowhere.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:23:14 AM EST
The true middle class has been shrinking while the number of people who are being falsely told that they are middle class has been increasing.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:23:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 2:23:33 AM EST by capnrob97]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hornet22:



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs
seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair'
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:26:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hornet22:



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.


SCOTUS ruling on Flemming vs Nestor (1960), no contractual right to Social Security exists.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:27:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair'
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair'


I think seizing of retirement assets by the government isn't to far off either. All that filthy lucre just sitting there out of reach of government control is akin to a jug of water to a man dying of thirst.

[But it will be for our "own good" when they do it.]
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:50:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
You see it in threads here.

People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc...

People live for the here and now.
View Quote



exactly....the same people who save shit yet expect to drive his & her luxury cars.....live in the big home high on the hill.....spend $30k on home theaters....vacation in exotic locations...fly first class instead of coach....on & on.....
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:04:56 AM EST
... heck with that!

Retiring into one of these - Hitting most every National Park in the USA for a couple weeks, each. Planning on dragging a small SUV and motorcycle with. Roughly 3 to 4 year plan, visiting each state in the union and dedicating one summer to Alaska via Canada

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:16:20 AM EST
I won't retire.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:18:02 AM EST
<-------- 8 weeks from retiring. We'll, if I choose to. I will probably work for another 6 months.

Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:22:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style.
View Quote

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:23:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair'
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
Originally Posted By Hornet22:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I figure in 10 years there will be means testing for retirement.[SSI] If you did save and invest, your SSI payments will be cut once your income exceeds X amount. You'll have to draw down your retirement funds to some point before you will receive full payout.

The medical health insurance costs WILL force many who thought they had enough to retire to continue to work or at least work part time.

The amount of people I know who are retiring soon while still owing a considerable amount on their house mortgage staggers me.



Which will make the SS system even more redistributive than it already is. I've worked hard all my life, saved and invested a little and will receive a little inheritance.
Those who live their lives responsibly, by working and saving, will be punished for their responsibility if/when means testing is employed.
And I give it a 50% chance that people who lived within their means and saved for retirement will get their 401ks, IRAs seized and redistributed to make things more 'fair'

What's your problem? If I want to buy a new car every two year and take lavish first class flights to weeklong stays at the Wynn in Las Vegas and you pinch pennies, ride your vehicles out for 10 years and take more frugal trips to the local state park and stay the motel 8.....I think it's only fair that I get half, maybe a bit more, of your money when we're about to retire.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:23:59 AM EST
I'm 45 now. I honestly don't think I will be able to retire.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:25:14 AM EST
I don't believe I will retire. Cost of living in 40 years will easily be twice what it is today. You need to retire with a cool million at a minimum to live comfortably in your remaining years assuming you don't outlive the money.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:31:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
You see it in threads here.

People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc...

People live for the here and now.
View Quote


As opposed to suffering when you're young and can enjoy life to the fullest so that you can have a tiny bit of extra comfort when you're old enough that you won't appreciate it?

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:32:56 AM EST
MAYBE some of us don't WANT to retire I plan on working til I'm a drooling vegatable

The THOUGHT of sitting around with nothing to do is the FURTHEREST thing I want .
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:46:46 AM EST
I'll never be able to retire. Part of that is decisions I have made in my life, the other parts is the Fed will make sure in 40 years that it is too expensive to live.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:52:18 AM EST
I will do consulting. I won't retire.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:59:37 AM EST
I retired.

Now I'm back in school learning some cool things (gonne-smith'n).
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:00:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:01:37 AM EST
I'm one of those, but it is because retirement doesn't interest me. I chosemy new industry in part because I can work on it till I die.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:04:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
I don't believe I will retire. Cost of living in 40 years will easily be twice what it is today. You need to retire with a cool million at a minimum to live comfortably in your remaining years assuming you don't outlive the money.
View Quote
Yep. Even for someone who is debt free, just taxes, electric bills, food, and health care will be a huge burden. I still put money in my 401k but I often wonder why.

Oh, and that "cool million" is probably not enough to retire today, let alone 30 years from now.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:05:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By piccolo:
When you look at what inflation can do to savings it's no wonder.

Your million dollar nest egg becomes worth 10% of what it was and you're screwed.

You bust your ass to provide for retirement and STILL wind up in the FSA just to stay alive.

I ain't goin' nowhere.
View Quote


This is very true. The current state of the economy and the Fed's QE Infinity is going to kill people's retirement savings. Those who work hard, play by the rules, and live right are going to screwed.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:07:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
You see it in threads here.

People paying $200+ a month for the latest smart phone and data plan, high cable / internet monthly bills, $50k pickups parked in the driveway, etc...

People live for the here and now.
View Quote


Left out vacations, and 5k sqft houses.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:08:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 4:09:24 AM EST by Extorris]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:
I retired.
Now I'm back in school learning some cool things (gonne-smith'n).
View Quote

Me too. Just finished school this week. (not gun smithing)
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:11:22 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Extorris:

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style.

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.

Yep. Mid-life nasty divorce + alimony and/or child support and massive legal fees...pretty much ends the dream of easy retirement at 65. Ask me how I know.

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:15:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... heck with that!

Retiring into one of these - Hitting most every National Park in the USA for a couple weeks, each. Planning on dragging a small SUV and motorcycle with. Roughly 3 to 4 year plan, visiting each state in the union and dedicating one summer to Alaska via Canada

http://www.rvt.com/photos2/2620/5282620/main.jpg
View Quote

Just stay out of the passing lane.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:16:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Procyon:


Unless your mortgage is @ 4% and your investments are returning 15%.
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Originally Posted By Procyon:
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Oh well. I enjoy being retired.

For "middle class" people you pretty much have to be debt free before retiring to make it work. Taking on a new 30 year mortgage when you're 45 years old is not the way to go about it.


Unless your mortgage is @ 4% and your investments are returning 15%.


I am going to be honest, I am really happy you are not my investment adviser.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:22:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Extorris:

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style.

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.


If the key to success is NOT getting married and NOT having kids, things are pretty jacked up all around. What's the point? Just work long enough to save up money to not work again? What a life...
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:25:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mazeman:

Just stay out of the passing lane.
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Originally Posted By Mazeman:
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... heck with that!

Retiring into one of these - Hitting most every National Park in the USA for a couple weeks, each. Planning on dragging a small SUV and motorcycle with. Roughly 3 to 4 year plan, visiting each state in the union and dedicating one summer to Alaska via Canada

http://www.rvt.com/photos2/2620/5282620/main.jpg

Just stay out of the passing lane.


... I'll have "all the time in the world"
Truthfully, the whole idea is to mosey from place to place leisurely.
It's the dichotomy to the profession/career rat-race
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:25:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Krolden:

If the key to success is NOT getting married and NOT having kids, things are pretty jacked up all around. What's the point? Just work long enough to save up money to not work again? What a life...
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Originally Posted By Krolden:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Divorce is the biggest reason most of my coworkers cannot retire "on time". The second reason is STUPIDLY borrowing against their 401k or other retirement savings to pay for an indulgent life style.

This.
Not getting married and not having kids was one of the best things I did for my retirement planning. Not borrowing against my pension, 457 Plan, annuity, and IRA was the second best. As I was nearing retirement age my Lt., who was divorced, said he would kill me if I got married in my remaining years with the department.

If the key to success is NOT getting married and NOT having kids, things are pretty jacked up all around. What's the point? Just work long enough to save up money to not work again? What a life...

Not everyone finds having kids enjoyable. Marriage is not necessary to be with someone you love.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:34:51 AM EST
And here I am planning early retirement at 35.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:42:15 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joker117:
And here I am planning early retirement at 35.
View Quote

Shit, you make me feel old considering I retired last year at 39.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:43:37 AM EST
There is a staggering number of people in their 40s and 50 that have essentially nothing saved. They spend everything.

There are many people here that post that they are sneaking money to buy guns.... money that they can barely afford week-to-week. They comment that their wife says they have bills to pay and they don't need another gun. How much money do you think they are putting away?

If people think they will work well into normal retirement age - what are they going to do when there are no jobs for another 6 million old folks? Our commercial market economy continues to become more and more efficient and evolve to more specialized skills. The specialized skill jobs will be held by much younger people. And a huge number of current jobs will be gone, wiped out by gains in efficiencies, self-help, tech and web-based economies.

Don't plan on seeking employment at age 65. You will be surrounded by millions competing for the same job for the same reason. Such jobs will pay squat.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:52:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Oh well. I enjoy being retired.

For "middle class" people you pretty much have to be debt free before retiring to make it work. Taking on a new 30 year mortgage when you're 45 years old is not the way to go about it.
View Quote


There is little difference between renting and buying at that age. The wifey and I have a 2400' 4 bdrm place in a prosperous surb in North Dallas. House payment is $1400/month. A two bedroom apartment in the same area is 1200+. We are able to deduct the interest and taxes making it cost about the same as the apartment. We have a 3.5% mortgage.

Unlike in an apartment, we have a private back yard, room for my guns, space to entertain the kids, etc. The condo would require us to do away with family gatherings, etc.

We have saved a bit. But I am nearly 10 years away from the full retirement age. Our fear is that the government will look at our assets (created from post tax dollars) and decide that we either give them some of our money or they will not pay us back the money that was forcefully taken under penalty of law.

I will always be busy unless my health deteriorates. My wife has serious health issues and won't be able to delay retirement until 66.

But you are right. Unless you retire with considerable cash reserves and/or liquidable assets, you will find it hard to stop working just to pay health insurance.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:54:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CWO:
There is a staggering number of people in their 40s and 50 that have essentially nothing saved. They spend everything.

There are many people here that post that they are sneaking money to buy guns.... money that they can barely afford week-to-week. They comment that their wife says they have bills to pay and they don't need another gun. How much money do you think they are putting away?

If people think they will work well into normal retirement age - what are they going to do when there are no jobs for another 6 million old folks? Our commercial market economy continues to become more and more efficient and evolve to more specialized skills. The specialized skill jobs will be held by much younger people. And a huge number of current jobs will be gone, wiped out by gains in efficiencies, self-help, tech and web-based economies.

Don't plan on seeking employment at age 65. You will be surrounded by millions competing for the same job for the same reason. Such jobs will pay squat.
View Quote


And the low pay, low skill, part time jobs that some older folks take to supplement their retirement savings are and will be taken by the newly amnestied. Especially if they are exempt from Obamacare's employer mandate.
Retirees are gonna get pinched all the way around.
i have zero illusions that I will ever be able to retire. Nor will I enjoy the quality of life that my parents enjoy in their later life (retirement savings and pensions).
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:59:20 AM EST
Well, pensions are a thing of the past except for .gov employees, and very few have the means to save for 30+ years of not working. People will work until they can't work anymore and then go on the government teat. It will be worse for the blue collar types and they will physically be unable to do their jobs much sooner.

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:01:16 AM EST
Divorce and a layoff pretty well took care of my plans. On top of which I think I would be bored retired. Almost all of the fun stuff people talk about in retirement; travel, open a business, etc,. requires money, time and effort. I may as well keep working.
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