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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/6/2004 4:57:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 5:52:55 PM EST by Dave_A]
Ok, I've got a bolt that's snapped off in a cast aluminum (I think) engine casing.

There's not enough left on top to thread a nut on, but enough to weld one to the 'stub'...

The problem is that I don' t have a proper welder, and don't want to buy one just to weld one nut to one bolt...

Now, I assume that an arc-welder would work for this sort of situation...

Since this is basically a high-amperage DC current run thru an electrode (the arc welders I've seen consist of 2 cables with jumper-type ends, and a welding rod/electrode), would a car battery & heavy jumper cables work in this situation?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:59:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 5:01:13 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
Drill and EZ-Out...or Grind off drill and tap.

MT

edit:Is it on a Dodge and if so What kind....Has nothing to do with the fix. I used to be into MOPAR.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:08:58 PM EST
Pay someone to TIG weld a nut to the stub. The car battery thing only works on TV. You will probably ruin a good battery and screw up your part. You can not controll the amperage on the car battery. That means that your 750 cold cranking amps will be running through the rod when you should only be using about 115-125.

Don't do it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:18:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:19:31 PM EST
I know you can rent wire feed welders at home depot - not sure if they rent arc welders


Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:36:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 5:43:21 PM EST by Dave_A]
We are talking about a 20yo 5mm bolt shaft.

It is located on the head of a motorcycle, and cannot be drilled out without pulling the head due to clearance... There is enough of a stub sticking out that it rises to the top of a standard nut (1/4" or less), but it is snapped at an angle, so no dice on the visegrips...

Paying a welder means renting a trailer + paying the shop fee...

I was under the impression that the batt I have would only supply 40-60A...

All I know about welding is that an arc-welder would allow me to stick a 5/32 or so rod in there, strike it against the bolt, and I should end up with a bolt fused to the stub...

I don't think there's enough clearance for a wire-feed device, either...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:45:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
Drill and EZ-Out...or Grind off drill and tap.

MT

edit:Is it on a Dodge and if so What kind....Has nothing to do with the fix. I used to be into MOPAR.



1980 Suzuki GS-850GL

Shaft-drive inline-4 motorcycle
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:45:39 PM EST
Is it on the head or on the cylinder? If you cant get a drill to it you will have trouble getting a TIG welding to it too. I don't know any responsible welder that will even try it with a gas tank that close to it. If I wasn't down with this FU back you could pull the head, I'd let you ship it to me and I'd do it for bragging rights. If it aint worth the $50 or less to fix it right then why bother at all?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:51:39 PM EST
Sounds like your best bet is to pull the head and drill the bolt then ez-out it. Even if you welded it, may go bad and you weld the bolt to the head. IMO, even if you do hit it just right, I don't think it'd handle the tourue of you tring to get it out and snap it again.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:55:01 PM EST
Try going to your local tool rental center and see what their prices are to rent a welder for a day. Probably around $50 or so, and better than jury rigging something MacGyver style.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:56:53 PM EST
If it's aluminum don't waste your time with an arc welder rather go directly to a pro with a TIG welder otherwise it's going to be half-assed
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:57:06 PM EST



I dont think theres a cheap way around this.

I think you going to have to do this the hard way and pull the head off drill out the bolt and retap it.

Chances are the second you strike an arc (using any process) on that bolt and try to fuse somthing to it your going to destroy the hardness of the remaining bolt and the affected area around the head. leading to even more headaches down the road

An arc welder wont work for you, the process is not precise enough for the job. Kinda like using a machete for plastic surgery DONT DO IT!!!!!!

tig (heliarc) would prob work but id still be worried about taking out the temper of bolt and head.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:59:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 6:01:47 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Is it on the head or on the cylinder? If you cant get a drill to it you will have trouble getting a TIG welding to it too. I don't know any responsible welder that will even try it with a gas tank that close to it. If I wasn't down with this FU back you could pull the head, I'd let you ship it to me and I'd do it for bragging rights. If it aint worth the $50 or less to fix it right then why bother at all?



The gas tank is off the bike, so that's a non-issue...

It's not worth $50, I just don't want a slow, seeping oil leak dripping on the fins & smoking after I seal it back up...

It's not worth tearing the motor down (which requires disconnecting the shaft drive, pulling the motor, and then pulling the head) and buying a new head gasket (the 20yo original won't be re-usable) just to get this one bolt out of 20-or-so out...

The valve cover is off, and if I can just get a bolt attached to the stub it will turn right out (just overtorqued, not frozen)...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:01:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By luger355:


I dont think theres a cheap way around this.

I think you going to have to do this the hard way and pull the head off drill out the bolt and retap it.

Chances are the second you strike an arc (using any process) on that bolt and try to fuse somthing to it your going to destroy the hardness of the remaining bolt and the affected area around the head. leading to even more headaches down the road

An arc welder wont work for you, the process is not precise enough for the job. Kinda like using a machete for plastic surgery DONT DO IT!!!!!!

tig (heliarc) would prob work but id still be worried about taking out the temper of bolt and head.



I agree with this, although TIG (GTAW) is not going to be any different. You're still creating a temperature that is so far above and beyond the melting range of aluminum, that it's going to wreak havoc on the head.

Do ourself a favor and disassemble...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:05:13 PM EST

Sounds like a gunstock target..

I offer the first box of 223's..
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:06:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By realist:
Sounds like a gunstock target..

I offer the first box of 223's..



No, I am not shooting up a perfectly good, running bike...

If all else fails, I'll use hi-temp gasket-maker & just seal it up as best I can...

I'd rather do it 'right' though, which means that bolt comes out...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:07:27 PM EST

Since this is basically a high-amperage DC current run thru an electrode (the arc welders I've seen consist of 2 cables with jumper-type ends, and a welding rod/electrode), would a car battery & heavy jumper cables work in this situation?


All I know is I welded a box end wrench to a fire wall one time trying to remove the POS + cable
nut off a battery post. It stuck on there pretty good


GM
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:08:04 PM EST
The heat transfer from the bolt to the head wont be enough to change the properties of the head material if TIG welded and the process will make the bolt easier to remove. I have done several of these for motorcycle shops over the years. It's not a big deal.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:31:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 6:32:42 PM EST by MT_Pockets]




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
Drill and EZ-Out...or Grind off drill and tap.

MT

edit:Is it on a Dodge and if so What kind....Has nothing to do with the fix. I used to be into MOPAR.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







1980 Suzuki GS-850GL

Shaft-drive inline-4 motorcycle



I apologize my poor vision caused me to mistake your Firebird Emblem for a Dodge Emblem... I need to go put my glasses on now.

MT
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:32:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:

Drill and EZ-Out...or Grind off drill and tap.




+1
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:01:07 PM EST
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Take your time and remove the screw properly. What ever it takes. Stand on your head, remove whatever to gain access. Welding anything is NOT the answer. All I did was weld this week and I have been welding a LOOOOONg time. Use a reverse drill, use an easy out, use Liquid Wrench and TAKE YOUR TIME. You will have a more harmonious outcome.

Alphabet soup online welding instructors. Gee fucking whiz. You need someone like ME to fix this for you if you can't do it yourself. No slight here, experience may be what you need to save your motor.

Believe me there is no fifty cent fix to your dollar problem. If the only way is to pull the head, suck it up and pull the head. Sometimes it is the shortest path to getting finished to merely get started.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:13:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 7:16:21 PM EST by Railgun]
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:33:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 7:39:36 PM EST by torstin]
if its only overtorqued, why dont you try some jb weld to attach the stub. try to get some pb blaster or similar into the threads over a day or so and see what happens.

eta:

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Alphabet soup online welding instructors. Gee fucking whiz.



i'm not sure this is fair. there are some extremely accomplished welders on this board...and in this thread.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:51:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Ok, I've got a bolt that's snapped off in a cast aluminum (I think) engine casing.............Now, I assume that an ARC-welder GOUGER would work for this sort of situation...




fIxEd It (no pun)
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:13:00 PM EST
Hello all!!! Well this isn't how I imagined what my first post would be about. Without a pic its hard to figure out how much clearance you have. If its not froze in but just over torqued then if you have access to a dremel tool find an engraving or very small grinding bit. Make a slot to fit the biggest and best screw driver as possible that will fit you got. Once the fit is tight then give it a try. This has worked for me a couple times but clerance was not as much of an issue so this may not work for shit to help you. However when all else fails I usually tear it apart anyway since I am crazy like that. Have fun
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:12:51 PM EST
drill it out with a drill bit that is smaller than the originail and tap it to make it turn right to lossen instead of left to lossen and place a right hand threaded bolt of the same thread and insert and it will back out once the new bolt bottoms out . just did this to my motor when the easy out wouldnt work
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:55:00 PM EST
post pics!
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:31:15 AM EST
What Sparsky said. But I would check around and see if there are some acid solutions that will attack the steel and not aluminum/

Otherwise the variations on drilling and scew removers seems the way to go. If you can get into there with a dremel you may be able to get some kind of bit stuck in there ala screw remover. Soak the the snot out of it with penetrating oil.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:26:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By wildearp:
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Take your time and remove the screw properly. What ever it takes. Stand on your head, remove whatever to gain access. Welding anything is NOT the answer. All I did was weld this week and I have been welding a LOOOOONg time. Use a reverse drill, use an easy out, use Liquid Wrench and TAKE YOUR TIME. You will have a more harmonious outcome.

Alphabet soup online welding instructors. Gee fucking whiz. You need someone like ME to fix this for you if you can't do it yourself. No slight here, experience may be what you need to save your motor.

Believe me there is no fifty cent fix to your dollar problem. If the only way is to pull the head, suck it up and pull the head. Sometimes it is the shortest path to getting finished to merely get started.



Your probably right. What do I know about welding?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:33:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By rocknrick:
Hello all!!! Well this isn't how I imagined what my first post would be about. Without a pic its hard to figure out how much clearance you have. If its not froze in but just over torqued then if you have access to a dremel tool find an engraving or very small grinding bit. Make a slot to fit the biggest and best screw driver as possible that will fit you got. Once the fit is tight then give it a try. This has worked for me a couple times but clerance was not as much of an issue so this may not work for shit to help you. However when all else fails I usually tear it apart anyway since I am crazy like that. Have fun



Ding-ding-ding. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. You can use a screwdriver socket, and plenty of PB Blaster or similar (what we used to call "Indian Creeping Oil" when I was a kid.)
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:37:58 AM EST
The drill it out and use an ectracting tool would be the proper way IMO. But in your situation I would try the chisel & hammer method (wecsog impact) with maybe a little heat on the bolt first. If that didn't work I would weld a nut on it with whatever I could find for a welder.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:44:24 AM EST
It would be nice to see a picture of it, but I would TIG weldit first if you don't have access to a TIG welder, Then I would drill and tap it.
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