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Posted: 1/31/2011 3:55:07 PM EDT
I was watching a program about Einstein and they said
We have 4.5 Lbs of Sunlight hit the earth Every Second.

Interesting



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:55:50 PM EDT
And just how is this measured?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:56:11 PM EDT
4.5 pounds? Sounds like Einstein smoked pot.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:57:05 PM EDT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7819201/Nasa-warns-solar-flares-from-huge-space-storm-will-cause-devastation.html

Good luck everyone.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:58:33 PM EDT
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?

So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:58:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 3:59:27 PM EDT by TerribleTom]
Let's do some math, eh?

4.5 pounds per second equals...

270 pounds/minute
16,200 pounds/hour
388,800 pounds/day
141,912,000 pounds/year

I'm having a hard time believing that.

ETA - tolip's explanation at least sounds plausible.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:00:55 PM EDT
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:01:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2

LOL WUT?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:02:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JohnnyP:
And just how is this measured?

It is not measured. It is calculated.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 4:04:49 PM EDT by Some_Beach]

Originally Posted By TerribleTom:

Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2

LOL WUT?
Borrowed from NASA (http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_sun.html )

The energy per time put out by the Sun is its luminosity, 3.8 x 1026 Joules per second (or Watts). Using Einstein's renowned formula that describes how much mass is transformed into energy, when energy is being produced, E = M * c2 (or: Energy = Mass * (Speed of Light)2), as 1 Joule = 1 kg m2/s2 and c = 300,000,000 m/s, the mass the Sun burns into energy every second is:

Mass/Time = 3.8 x 1026/(3 x 108)2 kg/s = 4.4 x 109 kg/s or roughly 4 million tons per second.

At its distance of 1 Astronomical Unit (150 million km), the Earth is hit by the Sun's energy flux F = 1400 Joules/s/m2. We call this quantity the "solar constant", as this value averaged over each year is constant within better than 1% over time. With an Earth radius of approx 6400 km, the area, which is (pi * Earth's radius)2, with which the Earth intercepts sunlight is (pi * Earth's radius)2 = 1.3 x 1014 m2 making the amount of energy captured by the Earth each second:

F * (pi * Earth's radius)2 = 1.8 x 1017 Joules/s


According to the same procedure as above this makes the mass to produce this amount of energy per second:

Mass captured as sunlight per second = 1.8 x 1017 / (3 x 108)2 kg/s = 2 kg/s

This is about 4.5 lbs/s or close to 5 lbs/s.


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?

So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.

Correct.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:23 PM EDT
where is KeithJ when ya need him.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TerribleTom:

Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2

LOL WUT?

M=E/(C^2)

E = energy of the sun as measured across the whole earth's surface
C = speed of light
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:04:33 PM EDT
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:07:53 PM EDT
Yes, this is true.


and we have theorized about using the effect for propulsion.


Solar Sail


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:09:14 PM EDT
Its an equivalency, i.e., 4.5 lbs of mass are required to produce the amount of energy that strikes the earth each second, assuming 100% efficiency of conversion and using E=M*C^2 as the converting formula.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:09:28 PM EDT
Just like global warming this is made up science as is all science. There is no such thing as the sun!
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:12:56 PM EDT
I bet that the average person has heard of E=MC squared, but has no idea what that means.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:17:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?

So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.



Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2


I like this stuff.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:17:48 PM EDT
How about the solar wind? Now that has mass...alpha and beta particles.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:23:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?

So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.



Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2


I like this stuff.


Me too
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Its an equivalency, i.e., 4.5 lbs of mass are required to produce the amount of energy that strikes the earth each second, assuming 100% efficiency of conversion and using E=M*C^2 as the converting formula.

So this doesn't reflect an addition to the earth's mass, but instead a reduction of the sun's mass that is used to produce energy in the form of light, correct ?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:36:58 PM EDT
Silly metric system. Force is not mass.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:40:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


A radiometer




I Would then to think it is more of a Force than actual Mass of 4.5 lbs
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:40:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 4:42:36 PM EDT by fatalerror113]
Its not photons, its the solar wind. Mostly protons and electrons.

At least that would be my guess as to what they were talking about.

ETA::Damn it, Keith J beat me.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:42:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stlyns:

Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Its an equivalency, i.e., 4.5 lbs of mass are required to produce the amount of energy that strikes the earth each second, assuming 100% efficiency of conversion and using E=M*C^2 as the converting formula.

So this doesn't reflect an addition to the earth's mass, but instead a reduction of the sun's mass that is used to produce energy in the form of light, correct ?


Plants absorb photons and use them to create sugars.

So, mass released by transforming atomic nuclei becomes light, then is stored again as chemical bonds in plants.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:44:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I was watching a program about Einstein and they said
We have 4.5 Lbs of Sunlight hit the earth Every Second.

Interesting





Global warming, global cooling, now global pushing. What next?

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:45:04 PM EDT
I would like to know what the 4.5lbs references.

Force from light, mass in the form of bonds and solar wind are different phenomena, but all affect our planet.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:45:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


A radiometer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/220px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg


I Would then to think it is more of a Force than actual Mass of 4.5 lbs

Lbs are not mass...slugs are



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:48:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


A radiometer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/220px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg


I Would then to think it is more of a Force than actual Mass of 4.5 lbs

Lbs are not mass...slugs are







Where is a theoretical physicist when you need one



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:54:14 PM EDT
Thats why we put on weight as we get older...................the mass of the ass is proportional the speed of light X samiches
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:54:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.




Radiometer
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:59:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tolip:
I would like to know what the 4.5lbs references.

Force from light, mass in the form of bonds and solar wind are different phenomena, but all affect our planet.

If you were to wholly convert 4.5 lbs of mass, wood, lead, plutonium, etc., completely into energy, it would be the same amount of energy (light, heat) that interacts with the earth in any given second. It's similar to what happens during a nuclear explosion, some of the mass is converted into energy, hence the heat and light. The sun does the same thing, albeit more efficiently.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:06:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CCW:
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I was watching a program about Einstein and they said
We have 4.5 Lbs of Sunlight hit the earth Every Second.

Interesting





Global warming, global cooling, now global pushing. What next?



global pulling?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:07:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


A radiometer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/220px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg


I Would then to think it is more of a Force than actual Mass of 4.5 lbs

Lbs are not mass...slugs are





Id rather use kilgrams and newtons.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:38:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rasanders22:

Id rather use kilgrams and newtons.



No joke. The more complex the units, the more SI units shine. I think my head exploded when I first read about CGS units. CGS unit of force: dyn. CGS unit of energy: erg.

I got an urge to die.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:44:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JohnnyP:
And just how is this measured?


E=MC^2
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:47:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rasanders22:
Originally Posted By CCW:
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
I was watching a program about Einstein and they said
We have 4.5 Lbs of Sunlight hit the earth Every Second.

Interesting





Global warming, global cooling, now global pushing. What next?



global pulling?
What you did there, ................

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:51:28 PM EDT
how much thrust per squeeze is that?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:53:45 PM EDT



This is absolute BS....


It's dark half of the day. Like the sun is landing on the earth then. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:55:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TUMOR:
Originally Posted By JohnnyP:
And just how is this measured?


E=MC^2

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many incorrect formulas before in one thread. The formula does not include the SI unit Mega- nor does it include a temperature in Celsius.z
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:56:22 PM EDT
Photons aren't the only particles given off in a fusion reaction.

I imagine that there are a fair amount of gases that are expelled as well.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:59:09 PM EDT
Since I'm up to my ass in snow, and I just pushed it for another hour, send it ALL to my yard.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:59:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mr_Harry:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


A radiometer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/220px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg


I Would then to think it is more of a Force than actual Mass of 4.5 lbs


Correct - but it's not a vacuum inside and it's not the photons from the light making it spin; if it was a vaccum, it wouldn't spin.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:07:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/210px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg

Radiometer
There's a little bit of FAIL going on here.

A Crookes radiometer only works in a PARTIAL vacuum. One built with a HARD vacuum in it won't spin.

It is not photonic pseudomass that causes the radiometer to spin, it is convective currents generated by
heating and cooling within the thin but present atmosphere in an operational Crookes radiometer.



CJ


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:07:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
4.5 pounds? Sounds like Einstein smoked pot.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:24:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By IceMan711:
Light can definitely exert force. My old science teacher had this glass ball about 12" in diameter with something that resembled a pinwheel inside. He could shine a light on the pinwheel and it would spin.

It was a vacuum, and I'm sure very light weight and efficient, but light could definitely make it spin.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Crookes_radiometer.jpg/210px-Crookes_radiometer.jpg

Radiometer
There's a little bit of FAIL going on here.

A Crookes radiometer only works in a PARTIAL vacuum. One built with a HARD vacuum in it won't spin.

It is not photonic pseudomass that causes the radiometer to spin, it is convective currents generated by
heating and cooling within the thin but present atmosphere in an operational Crookes radiometer.



CJ




Good God, I wasn't commenting on the physics of the thing, I was just linking what the guy saw. I even linked to a page with proper information on it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:35:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?
So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.



Originally Posted By Some_Beach:
Convert energy to mass using E=M*C^2


I like this stuff.


By Defination, you can't have momentum without mass
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:37:05 AM EDT
Uh Oh.......


Nerd fight.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 8:33:34 AM EDT
Do Photons have mass?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 8:35:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Photons have momentum, but not mass, right?

So 4.5lbs of force are applied by the sunlight, not 4.5lbs of sunlight.
That actually is implied, as mass in English units is Slugs, not pounds.

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