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Posted: 4/5/2014 10:46:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2014 10:50:12 PM EDT by KTMRIDER]
Is this just a crazy liberal concept?

The planet is almost 87% water.

If you have a well septic system the water goes back into the ground thru layers of dirt/rock.

If you have city water /sewer most of that water gets reclaimed or released into stream/rivers.

I don't like low flow toilets and i like showers that are like being under a waterfall.

Edit: I love 20 minute showers as hot as i can stand it..
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:48:35 PM EDT
Water, no.





Accessible potable water?  Yes.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:51:40 PM EDT
If the aquifers are all completely full, all the reservoirs, lakes, and other freshwater bodies are full, and the ground is saturated...

And it rains again...

Where does the extra water go?  Other than your basement, I mean.



Anyhow, it's not like we're going to suddenly run out of fresh water.

The bigger issue is the energy cost associated with supply, filtration, pumping, wastewater treatment, etc.  There's a huge energy cost just associated with moving it all, and those costs are unrecoverable.

Assuming the infrastructure cost is fixed, water conservation does save energy, and thus it saves you money.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:52:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:
The planet is almost 87% water.
View Quote

97.5% of the water on Earth is in the oceans and is full of tasty delicious salt. Go get a few hundred gallons of seawater and run all your house shit on it for a few weeks - it's going to go real bad.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:53:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:54:24 PM EDT
Every gallon of gasoline you burn in your car creates a gallon of water.

If you want more fresh water, you need to drive more.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:56:14 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


If the aquifers are all completely full, all the reservoirs, lakes, and other freshwater bodies are full, and the ground is saturated...



And it rains again...



Where does the extra water go?  Other than your basement, I mean.
Anyhow, it's not like we're going to suddenly run out of fresh water.



The bigger issue is the energy cost associated with supply, filtration, pumping, wastewater treatment, etc.  There's a huge energy cost just associated with moving it all, and those costs are unrecoverable.



Assuming the infrastructure cost is fixed, water conservation does save energy, and thus it saves you money.
View Quote
Might...





Want to study up on drought conditions, recharge rates, and what over stressing of municipal water supplies is doing.





Because what is really happening across the country is the opposite of what you describe in the first half of your post.



 
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:56:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
If the aquifers are all completely full, all the reservoirs, lakes, and other freshwater bodies are full, and the ground is saturated...

And it rains again...

Where does the extra water go?  Other than your basement, I mean.



Anyhow, it's not like we're going to suddenly run out of fresh water.

The bigger issue is the energy cost associated with supply, filtration, pumping, wastewater treatment, etc.  There's a huge energy cost just associated with moving it all, and those costs are unrecoverable.

Assuming the infrastructure cost is fixed, water conservation does save energy, and thus it saves you money.
View Quote

And if you have a well/septic, electricity is not much to run that.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:57:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Every gallon of gasoline you burn in your car creates a gallon of water.

If you want more fresh water, you need to drive more.
View Quote

F350 is a diesel.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:57:49 PM EDT
FPNI, once again. It's actually a serious problem in some places.

Fortunately there are emergency methods to make safe drinking water. The easiest is to fill clear plastic bottles and leave them in the sun for a few hours. The UV rays sterilize the water. Still doesn't make up for the lack of infrastructure.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 10:58:42 PM EDT
I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.



I do care about wasting my money.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 11:00:26 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By California_Kid:


I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.



I do care about wasting my money.
View Quote
You live in California.  Your water does not get replenished, it gets purchased.



 
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 11:02:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
You live in California.  Your water does not get replenished, it gets purchased.
 
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.

I do care about wasting my money.
You live in California.  Your water does not get replenished, it gets purchased.
 

Hey the central valley got 3/4" in the past few weeks.
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 11:05:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 11:06:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:

F350 is a diesel.
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Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Every gallon of gasoline you burn in your car creates a gallon of water.

If you want more fresh water, you need to drive more.

F350 is a diesel.



4C12H23 + 71O2 --> 48CO2 + 46H2O
Link Posted: 4/5/2014 11:14:05 PM EDT
And on the same lines.  Why can't we pour motor oil into the ground?

Doesn't oil come from the ground?

I know it can't run into a river, but what about a spot where it would just absorb into the dirt undisturbed
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:11:57 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BakerMike:





97.5% of the water on Earth is in the oceans and is full of tasty delicious salt. Go get a few hundred gallons of seawater and run all your house shit on it for a few weeks - it's going to go real bad.
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Originally Posted By BakerMike:



Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:

The planet is almost 87% water.


97.5% of the water on Earth is in the oceans and is full of tasty delicious salt. Go get a few hundred gallons of seawater and run all your house shit on it for a few weeks - it's going to go real bad.




 
and 1/2 of the remaining 2.5% is tied up in ice.




the first post nailed it.  water isn't wasted in the sense of being destroyed.  rather, it is rendered unusable (either through pollution or diversion into an unusable segment of the hydrologic cycle).




for example, reservoirs lose a substantial portion of water directly to evaporation.  the water isn't destroyed, but it is rendered unusable.  or consider aquifer drawdown.  depending on the geology of the aquifer, water can flow centimeters per day.  so when a lot of people are sinking wells, the water table can drop sharply.  in parts of the ogalalla, the water table dropped 150 feet in only 50 years.  most of that water runs off (picking up pollutants on its way), and is accelerated into streamflow and out to sea.  this is especially troublesome in north and west texas, where the water takes about 10,000 years to arrive from the primary recharge zone in nebraska.




there is a reason that china has been trying for a decade to import water from alaska and canada.  water works in a cycle, but only one segment of that cycle is usable.  whether or not anyone gives a shit about environmental causes, poor stewardship of available fresh water is a recipe for economic disaster.




if you doubt that, look at what happened on the east and west coast this year.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:13:23 AM EDT
I piss on my driveway  a lot. Am I wasting piss?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:13:25 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By baitdragger:


And on the same lines.  Why can't we pour motor oil into the ground?



Doesn't oil come from the ground?



I know it can't run into a river, but what about a spot where it would just absorb into the dirt undisturbed
View Quote




 
what do you think happens when rain hits the ground?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:14:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote



What he said.

Water you can drink is NOT 87% of the planet. That water has to be treated and purified. THAT takes energy.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:16:28 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By sirensong:





 
and 1/2 of the remaining 2.5% is tied up in ice.
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Originally Posted By sirensong:



Originally Posted By BakerMike:


Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:

The planet is almost 87% water.


97.5% of the water on Earth is in the oceans and is full of tasty delicious salt. Go get a few hundred gallons of seawater and run all your house shit on it for a few weeks - it's going to go real bad.


 
and 1/2 of the remaining 2.5% is tied up in ice.




the first post nailed it.  water isn't wasted in the sense of being destroyed.  rather, it is rendered unusable (either through pollution or diversion into an unusable segment of the hydrologic cycle).
snip
Well put.
The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.



 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:19:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By sirensong:

  what do you think happens when rain hits the ground?
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Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By baitdragger:
And on the same lines.  Why can't we pour motor oil into the ground?

Doesn't oil come from the ground?

I know it can't run into a river, but what about a spot where it would just absorb into the dirt undisturbed

  what do you think happens when rain hits the ground?


Asphalt roads made from oil becomes moistened.

I just answered two questions in one right there.  You're both welcome.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:20:55 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Madcap72:



Well put.
The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.

 
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:



Originally Posted By sirensong:


...
Well put.
The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.

 




 






reading about impermeable land cover on arfcom--my day just got better!




sincerely,




the resident enviro-hippie




Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:45:10 AM EDT
Where the hell do you get the idea that the earth is 80% water?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 12:47:20 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:


Where the hell do you get the idea that the earth is 80% water?
View Quote
By being intuitive enough to know he meant "covered by" instead of having to be told.



Unless of course it was the running gag.  



 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:09:35 AM EDT
dont live in the desert
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:16:35 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By California_Kid:


I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.



I do care about wasting my money.
View Quote
I'm surprised that a Californian resident doesn't understand it's water situation/agreement.

 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:20:12 AM EDT
Only 0.06% of Earth's mass is water.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:21:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TheGunCollector:
I'm surprised that a Californian resident doesn't understand it's water situation/agreement.  
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Originally Posted By TheGunCollector:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.

I do care about wasting my money.
I'm surprised that a Californian resident doesn't understand it's water situation/agreement.  


I'm not.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:25:54 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
I'm not.
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:



Originally Posted By TheGunCollector:


Originally Posted By California_Kid:

I don't care about "wasting" a resource that gets continuously replenished.



I do care about wasting my money.
I'm surprised that a Californian resident doesn't understand it's water situation/agreement.  




I'm not.
I grew up on a property with an artesian well and copious amounts of monthly/annual rain.  Took me some time to understand what living in the desert entails.

 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:43:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:
Where the hell do you get the idea that the earth is 80% water?
View Quote

Approx 75% of the surface area of the Earth is covered in water.  Does that highlight the confusion for you?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:54:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By sirensong:

 


reading about impermeable land cover on arfcom--my day just got better!

sincerely,

the resident enviro-hippie


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Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
...
Well put.



The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.
 

 


reading about impermeable land cover on arfcom--my day just got better!

sincerely,

the resident enviro-hippie




Recharging rates for major aquifers is one of the big things I worry about.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 1:59:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By MCSquared:

Approx 75% of the surface area of the Earth is covered in water.  Does that highlight the confusion for you?
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Originally Posted By MCSquared:
Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:
Where the hell do you get the idea that the earth is 80% water?

Approx 75% of the surface area of the Earth is covered in water.  Does that highlight the confusion for you?


0.06% of the Earth's mass is water. Does that clarify the cause of confusion for you?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 2:07:44 AM EDT
Surprising is that this thread went the direction it did, and the derp was contained.

Not surprising will be when the derp resurfaces in another thread, and the spreaders of it will have shown they simply ignored those who tried to educate them, as they seek to find more "like-minded" people to jerk themselves off with, while complaining that GD has been taken over by "liberals."
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 2:11:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote



FPNI!

Link Posted: 4/6/2014 2:20:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Surprising is that this thread went the direction it did, and the derp was contained.

Not surprising will be when the derp resurfaces in another thread, and the spreaders of it will have shown they simply ignored those who tried to educate them, as they seek to find more "like-minded" people to jerk themselves off with, while complaining that GD has been taken over by "liberals."
View Quote


No model trains or imitation Krab meat for you!
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 2:34:41 AM EDT
Maybe someone should ask people in drought plagued areas of the west/SW if water can be wasted.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 2:49:52 AM EDT
I don't worry about it.



People will figure out how to clean the water, the price will go up but it'll be there.  It's pretty hard to destroy, and when you do, the components spontaneously recombine back into water.




It's fuels I worry about not having enough of.  The price of those is already skyrocketing.  
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:04:41 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:


I don't worry about it.


View Quote

People will figure out how to clean the water, the price will go up but it'll be there.  It's pretty hard to destroy, and when you do, the components spontaneously recombine back into water.






I see the entire water cycle thing eluded you.





The problem is water location... it's got to get back to a place it's useful.
 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:11:00 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Every gallon of gasoline you burn in your car creates a gallon of water.

If you want more fresh water, you need to drive more.
View Quote


My car doesn't burn gasoline; it's a diesel.  Do I love or hate water more than gasoline owners because of this?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:14:17 AM EDT
I'm sure it's possible for clean water to be used faster than it can be treated. But that's a question of capacity, not of quantity.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:30:11 AM EDT
Have you ever considered how many gallons/day are locked up in landfills in the form of small drops of water in plastic bottles with the lid on it?  Not to mention the half full bottles that are thrown away.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:34:02 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Furloaf:


I'm sure it's possible for clean water to be used faster than it can be treated. But that's a question of capacity, not of quantity.
View Quote
It is a question of quantity.  If you use the word correctly.
 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:38:25 AM EDT
In my case in the Northeast I pump it out of the ground , use it and dump it back into a on-site septic system.
No waste except for the small amount of electricity it takes to run the pump.

In cities near to me they pump it further but the majority of the cost of excess use would be for treatment of the potable water and then treatment of the sewage.
There is considerable cost to infrastructure for the treatment plants on both ends and all the supply system but that need is there anyway, the only cost attributed to "waste" would be for the excess size of the infrastructure associated to the "waste".

In other words if a city or county wide area could convince end users to somehow reduce water usage 10% the total cost reduction of that system
would drop but nowhere near the 10%.


In some of the water systems out west where water is sourced in one place ,then transmitted great distances to the areas where it is used and generally disposed of there are two things going on . First the necessity to move the water great distance makes it generally more expensive and
since the water is used and disposed of great distances from the original source the issue can become just how much water can be removed from that source before you damage or reduce that source .

Any area water supply organization or authority is generally playing catch up when their usage levels are rising . There are tremendous costs involved in planning , designing , building and maintaining these huge systems and like most government entities they tend to push that cost forward in hopes "something" will come along . They are chicken to show the real costs and raise the necessary funds by fees or higher taxes so they borrow or bond which adds the cost of debt service . Putting off maintenance is also foolish and only costs more in future years.

Much of the hand wringing about "waste" is a effort to place blame for bad management and planning in past years
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:39:02 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By H46Driver:
My car doesn't burn gasoline; it's a diesel.  Do I love or hate water more than gasoline owners because of this?
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Originally Posted By H46Driver:



Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:

Every gallon of gasoline you burn in your car creates a gallon of water.



If you want more fresh water, you need to drive more.




My car doesn't burn gasoline; it's a diesel.  Do I love or hate water more than gasoline owners because of this?
oh what's the difference?  A few H's and C's and the boiling point?



 
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:39:34 AM EDT
We have severe water restrictions.
I'm considering just,putting rocks,down for a lawn.  We can't water enough anyway.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:42:47 AM EDT
It's not a problem here, but in some parts of the World fresh water is expensive.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:43:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote


I agree. The water will stay on the planet, but will it stay where it's needed in the form its needed?
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:46:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote


Correct. Heck...we are drinking the same water that dinosaurs drank.
Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:48:51 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Water, no.


Accessible potable water?  Yes.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/6/2014 3:49:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Madcap72:


the first post nailed it.  water isn't wasted in the sense of being destroyed.  rather, it is rendered unusable (either through pollution or diversion into an unusable segment of the hydrologic cycle).
snip
Well put.



The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.
 
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Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Originally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By BakerMike:
Originally Posted By KTMRIDER:
The planet is almost 87% water.

97.5% of the water on Earth is in the oceans and is full of tasty delicious salt. Go get a few hundred gallons of seawater and run all your house shit on it for a few weeks - it's going to go real bad.

  and 1/2 of the remaining 2.5% is tied up in ice.


the first post nailed it.  water isn't wasted in the sense of being destroyed.  rather, it is rendered unusable (either through pollution or diversion into an unusable segment of the hydrologic cycle).
snip
Well put.



The other side of the coin, is continued building and modification of the land keeps water from staying in the right place long enough.  Every road, roof, storm drain parking lot etc. works to take rainfall and divert it straight back to the sea.
 


This. I've said for years that we ought to make parking lots and roads out of Mardsden Matting.
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