Alright, here is the deal.

I know from the response from my posts on wild/feral hog hunting that there is ALOT of interest in hunting boars in Texas.

I am trying to make this into a viable weekend trip for AR15.com members/their friends/family or others.

However, I need some advice from the audience.

Here is what I can provide:

Hog hunting.  

Either guided(we go stalking them in the woods) or semi-guided (I put you into a stand and you wait for them by a feeder.)

Or, Day/Night hunts with dogs and only knives/ropes.

Here is the way I have thought about:  

(A) Per day, per hunter,  for semi-guided hunt.  This means we put you in a stand near/around a known hog focal point.  No daily limits.  You shoot them, we load them in a truck and take them to a local processor.  

(B) A completely guided, "walk and stalk", hunt (me or my friends walking by your side) snooping and pooping through the brush.  This means sneaking through the woods, listening for hogs/grunting/squealing with whatever weapon you choose.  Pistol, carbine, rifle, bow, you pick.

(C) "Extreme" guided dog hunt with only a rope and a knife to catch/kill a wild hog.  Keep in mind "Exteme" = You go into the pack of dogs/hogs to catch the hog, put it on the ground and use your knife/pistol to dispatch the beast.  Guide(s) will be with you to assist.

In each case you will pay $50.00 in addition to guide fees for each hog killed (under 175lbs).  "Trophy" hogs (175lbs +) will be charged at $1.00 per pound.

There is a local hog processor that I will contact about a rate for meat processing on feral hogs.  Figure 50-75 cents per pound to have your kill turned into bacon, sausage, ham, chops, whatever you want.  I am not sure on shipping charges, still working things out here.

I am honestly trying to put things together for a weekend hog hunting guide service.  Open to all, but targeted toward AR15.com members/posters/users/lurkers.

I need an idea from all of you what you would be willing to pay for :

A, (placed on a stand by a feeder)

B, (stalking through the woods with a guide)

C, ("extreme" Day/night hunting with a knife/rope dogs and a guide)


Keep in mind I will NOT provide hotel, food, ammo, drink, etc.

You are paying ONLY for the guide service.  Additional charges will be for field dressing, finished processing, specialty hunts (nights, knife only, bare handed, live capture, etc.)

I would appreciate your input.  Once we establish a fair price, this will be an East Texas AR15 Hog Hunting Guide Service.  

I would recommend you check the web (this is how I researched prices/features/packages).  Look for other hog hunting guide services.  Some offer accomodations, which I cannot do.  Others restrict hunting options, which I will NOT do.  

Please let me know what you feel is a fair price after you do your research.  A typical hunt would mean the following scenario: (with variations, of course)

1.  Arrive in Canton, Texas, Friday night.  
2.  Stay in a local Motel/Hotel
3.  Picked up by myself (or another guide) at 6-7 AM Saturday.
4.  Depending on your hunt: be in a stand or in the field by 7-8 AM
5.  Kill a hog and take him/her to processing plant.
6.  On you own for lunch/dinner/both.
7.  The next morning repeat the hunt or try a new technique.  

I teach school Mon-Thurs.  I can run guided hunts Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  My ballpark is 150.00 per hunter (two hunters minimum) per day.  If you want more than being placed in a  stand over a feeder, then plan to pay more.  Let me know what you want, how much you want to pay, and I will finalize the details.

I am in the process of recruiting guides, establishing leases from landowners, and hiring dog based hog hunters for the extreme hunts.

Once I know what you (the customer) would like, I can post the final details.

TIA

TheRedGoat

Brouhaha,

Thanks for your input.  I am currently hunting on land in which the leaseholder "only wants them killed."  After posting my last thread about the joys of blasting hogs in the open, I realized I could NOT meet the demand of AR15ers that would like to hunt ferals with their favorite .223.

I currently have THREE large ferals in my outside refrige  Althoug hI appreciate your offer for assistance, I am looking for those who are interested in an "Any weekend, any style" guide service.

In order to make this possible, I will need to make this a profitable (pay for gas, time, vehicle, lease) business.

Since feral hogs are "in season" all year round, and interest has been so high, I suspect this will be a fun, and interesting, hobby by providing hog hunting trips to AR15ers.

I thank you for you offer.

TheRedGoat

What about the Strong Jewish contingency on this board.

You know they don't eat pork.  This is clearly an anti sematic hunt!

[;)]

All kidding aside (and I did find your post amusing) you do NOT have to process a hog after a kill.  (hogs, snakes, turtle do not have to be eaten to be killed in Texas.  Nobody is serving fried coyote, last I checked)

Kill it as and leave it in place ( for the nightttime coyote hunt) if you would like.  

TheRedGoat

Well, just to give you a reference point:

There is a private "game farm" in NE PA (its actually a huge valley) that I have been given info on and am planning on going to at some point in my life.  Basically, this is how it works:

You (your group) get a cabin from Friday to Sunday.  Nothing fancy, but protection from elements and a comfy place to sleep.  What you pay depends on what you kill.  If you don't take anything all weekend, its $25 per hunter.  The cost for boar is $125 per kill.  Butchering is another $25. (it goes all the way up to $2500 for an elk)  The guys I know that go there all the time usually take boars in the 100-150 lb range.  

Personally, I would love to come down to TX and hunt with my AR15 & AR10.  But, after the (significant) cost of travel & lodging, I couldn't see spending much more than $200 for "the hunt."  Not that it isn't worth it but, when you tack on lodging and driving/flying, it could potentially hit a grand.

Just some info, hope it helps!

BTW: GOOD LUCK!

my feelings on the travel are very similar to fmjunkie. and i'm not even sure i'd even value a local hog kill at 125.00+. i'd probably be curious enough to pay a fee to go on the hunt, but don't have the desire or need for 100lbs of hog.

my main interest would be watching, learning, and assisting, with no real concern if i returned home empty handed or with only a few pounds of meat.

of course, with more hunting experience that could change, but i doubt it. either way it sounds as if you are in a good situtaion and i hope it works out for you.

What are the guarantees that hogs are encountered?

I would be happy to come along, but I prefer not to pay, especially if I have to get a hunting permit anyway.

I don't really want to hunt for the meat, but I don't want it to go to waste either. At least get it processed and donate the food to the homeless.

I would be interested in having an AR15.com hunt, to where we have a large BBQ for friends and family afterwards. Maybe a member has one of those HUGE portable BBQs, or they can be rented. It would have to be a "safe" hunt that is organized, maybe two shooters at a time, a pickup truck, etc.

Here is a local place some friends and I are considering:
http://www.choctaw-preserve.com/

NP on the info.  I have seen hog hunting packages (put you in a stand and give you a room overnight) for as much as $995.00

I am certain there would be a divorce attorney in my future if I began offering my guest room to strangers every weekend.

After looking at other packages, I considered 150.00 for stand hunting the 'low-ball' option.

I really recommend others hit the the web and compare options.  I am 45-60 minutes East of Dallas.  

45-65.00 per night for hotel.  
150.00 for a basic hunt
10-25.00 per day for food (Heck bring a PB & J sandwich if you want to)
50.00 per hog for a "kill fee"

Average per day hunt is going to be about 200.00-225.00 per person total.  

You pick you hotel/motel, you decide where you want to eat.   For all I care a person could sleep in their pickup at the truckstop and eat peanut butter and crackers.

My goal is to put them on to hogs, let them decide how thay would like to hunt, and give them options on processing.

Want to do the field dressing, skinning, prcessing yourself?  Knock your self out.

I am looking to start the guide service (150.00 per day per person to be placed in a stand +50.00 for each hog standard hog killed)  Anything above and beyond that goal is negotiable.

TheRedGoat

Sounds like a fun hunt and all but I think $200+ a day to shoot an animal that you are trying to get rid of anyway is a little high.

My take is that the Rgoat is trying to start a small business centered around something he knows how to do.

That’s a good thing! Gives me a chance to engage in an activity I would otherwise not be able to do.

Without much experience as a hunter, I’d say your proposed  fee looks quite reasonable to me.

Note to self - find some time to visit Rgoat (but ask him to find me a motel first!) and have some fun!

Mike

Energizer, you have my promise that if you don't encounter one that day, I'll take you to some men's clubs that night, and guarantee you an encounter! [:D]

well, living in iowa, travel would kill me, unless maybe it was done in the summer. it would be tough for me to justify all the expense, but i would love to try "extreme" hog hunting. like i said in a earlyer post, in arkansas, hogs are hunted with .22s, so knife seems like an intresting new idea. my biggest issue would be finding an iowa buddy to go with me. i suppose my dune buggy project wont leave that kind of cash free for a while anyhow

RedGoat:

I just wanted to add that, for someone more local than me, I think what you are talking about is not that bad at all.  Especially for someone like me who is not an avid hunter but wants to try/learn and very much wants someone to help.  Plus, its an experience I'm sure one would not soon forget.  And that is worth paying for more than the hogs are...

I just thought I'd throw that in before too many a negative word is dumped on you...

i am interested in this!  can you e-mail me some more info please.  [email protected]  is my e-mail.  thanks!!

Sounds like fun and since I just live an 1 1/2 away, that saves me money on hotel rooms [:D] Plus I'm not that big of a stranger to RG(been to his place and met the wife)

Sounds good to me. Just think of how much meat you get for $200-$300.

I live in Houston and was planning on going hog hunting in the next few weeks!

The only problem is, you are 5 hours away. I am only looking to kill the hog - how much would that cost?

I'd love to do it, but it would have to be a very good price to justify the drive.

Thanks!
Dave

Just like to mention for those of you that may want to hunt but don't want to keep the meat there's always Hunters For the Hungry that will gladly accept your excess meat and put it to good use feeding the less fortunate.  Hunters For the Hungry is a good program to help your community.

Bingo!  I know how to do this, from searching the web I am certain the price is right.  As a teacher, extra cash from a weekend job is always needed.



Also right on the target. the place I am currently hunting is NOT available as a lease pasture for hogs (long story, but it is no tavailable)

I am not made of money, I cannot pay for 5-6 leases and take folks around for fun every weekend.  I really do thing the divorce attorney would have his way with me.



Since Canton hosts the Largest tourist attraction in the state of Texas, we are flush with brand new, clean hotels/motels.  I can give you a list of multiple hotels within bare minutes of my house.


I am not going to take folks (other than a few that are very close friends) on weekend long hog hunts for free.  I cannot afford to, and my wife would leave me (damn, she is a good one too!) if I tried to do so.

Search the web, folks.  Find other places that are offering hunts for wild hogs.  Let me know what you want to pay, and I will put a package together for you.

Keep in mind, every place in Texas that is offering 1 or 2 hogs per day is limiting you in your ability to harvest a feral animal, either by caliber used, or number of hogs harvested.

I know everyone would like to hunt for free, myself included.  This is not about what we would 'like' to do.  It is what we would be willing to pay to do.

If you want to hunt wild Texas boars at night, with dogs, a rope and a sharp knife, then tell me what you are willing to pay.  I am going to meet with a friend tomorrow night.  He has dogs, and knows others that have dogs.  If I am going to be able to tell them "I will pay you X amount as a guide on a hog hunt" then I need to know what you 'AR15ers' are willing to pay for an extreme hunt.

[url]www.texasboars.com/young/youngdirect.html[/url]

Hunting site is 10 miles east of my home.  for only 200 acres they are charng 200.00 fr a 'guided hunt.'  The minimum acreage I am considering is 850 acres, and I already have a lead on an additonal 1000 acres.

I really don't think 150.00 for almost 900% more land to hunt is unreasonable.

[url]http://user.txcyber.com/~wild-hog/prices.htm[/url]

Here is another.  Guided wild hogs 150.00 per person per day + kill fee (.75 per llb non trophy  1.00 per lb trohpy)

Check them out, then tell me more of what you would like like/pay.

Seriously, think this through.  I am offering to guide/setup whatever hog hunting trip in Texas you would like.  I do not own any dogs, I do not own any large tracts of land.  I am preparing to setup a new service/business for the AR15ers out there.  I cannot afford to pay for dogs, guides, hunters, gas, transportation myself.

You want to hunt them, then I have to be able to hire others to help you do so.  


TheRedGoat

Seriously,

I don't think any negative stones have been cast.  

I know some would like this to be a 'free' hog hunt, but they forget what the details include when offering free hog hunts on a website with 1650+ lurkers on average per day.

I also think my ballpark price is reasonable.  150.00 for a basic hunt.

As Arock mentioned, donate the meat if you so choose.

Leave the meat laying for a nighttime varmint (coyote) hunt if you would prefer.

As for the experience side, imagine this.

The hounds have bayed a boar in a creek.  You are handed a rope and asked to wade into the creek with the dogs.  When the hog presents the chance you are to place the rope around its neck and drag it to the nearest creek bank.

If the boar charges, you defend yourself with only a knife.  

Your entire world is confined to a cone of light projecting from your headlamp and a 250lb boar daring you to step into the water, any questions?

TheRedGoat

What about a night shoot with spot lights and night vision? as long as we notify a game warden, everything should be okay.

Can we shoot from the bed of your truck? (while stopped of course)

I live in the Richardson/Plano area, so its not too far.

What would a Saturday day/night shoot cost for 3 shooters (shooting 1 at a time)?

You might want to set up the pricing for a small group, in blocks of 4 hours.

Citabria,

I will email you tomorrow, tech problems with my email from home.   (Windows 98 proxied to a WinXP platform through a  VPN)

Thanks for your interest.

TheRedGoat

You can shoot feral hogs, at night with/without nightvision.  Once things are set up, I will let the GW know where we are and when we will be there.



Why stop?  And why would we shoot one at a time?  Since the hogs are listed as feral by the state, you can lay waste to them from a vehicle (moving or not) on private property.



You're about 1-1.5 hours from my home.  I have a brother (DrJeffAllen) that lives in Denton.  You could probably arrive in Canton in an hour or so if traffic was light in Dallas.

Drop me an email, tell me how you would like to hunt, what you would like to pay.

TheRedGoat

I am not associating a face with a nick.  gimme an idea of who you are, when you were here, and what you looked like.  I really think I would have recalled your name/face/nick with a monicker like "necromancer"

TheRedGoat

Your gonna have to change your sig line [:D]

I'm on it...  brb...  [:D]

I also need a disclaimer:

Sig Line subject to change as prices are negotiated.

TheRedGoat

Hey, you got photoshop handy?  Take that pic of me with that 300lb sow and white out my face, put "Your face here" on the photo!

ROFL

TheRedGoat

Goat,

I live in East Texas, close to Texarkana. A few months ago, I paid $50 a day to waste my time on the Musgrove Ranch near Mount Vernon.  Lots of hawg sign, just no hawgs ( they really are a fickle crittur).  I have been hunting these menace to society hawgs for half my life (well, not quite), and I think your prices are on the high side (or I might not understand the price list correctly). You are talkin' serious cash if ole' Grandaddy and half his family walks out (personally, I couldn't restrain myself from committing "hawgacide".  I am not saying do it for free by no means.  It takes a DAMN good hunter to hunt on unfamiliar ground and harvest game without a guide, so your expertise would be worth quite a bit.

Why not offer a flat rate per person per day with no gaurantee. Also, would camping on the lease be an option?  I am just throwing ideas out there, so please don't take offense.  I personally would not pay that much to take a hog,  and since there are so many places in our area that offer unguided hunts for less than $100 a day, I think you might price yourself out of the market.  People who are not serious about hog hunting, would probably pay the lesser rate and take their chances (and the chances will be slim, I think).  My advice would be to start off slow and cheap, no dogs to pay for, or maybe offer dogs as an option.

I have thought about emailing you and asking what it would take to go hawg huntin' with you, sounds like you have an awesome population out there.  God Luck and God Bless your new venture.

Jarhead94

I agree.  



That is certainly an option.  However, picking someone up at a hotel, driving them to lease and placing them in a stand demands much less of my time than organizing a dog hunt with knives and ropes at midnight.  That is why I was considering the different rates.



I am still in the early stages of organizing land to hunt.  I will ask the landowners about the possibility.



No offense taken.  I posted here to get suggestions.  All the prices that I showing in my sig are going to be changed/adjusted as things develop.



Would you do me a favor?  Give me more details about these unguided hunts.  Do they field dress that hog?  TRansport it to the meat locker, charge a premium for large hogs killed, etc?  I would like to kow more to size up the competition.



I agree.  My biggest hurdle is not owning the land that I will use for the hunts.  That raises  my basic cost for the hunts.



No problem there.  Once I get things set up I wil get you a discount on your hunt with me.

This is what I do NOT want.  If things work the way I think they will, I will have several (5 or more) ranches that we can use to hunt.  No hogs on one, head to another.

I think a flat rate kill fee, no charge for trophies, no charge by the pound is the way to go.

Kill as many as you want, but pay for what you kill.  

BTW, I adjusted the prices in the sig line.  Going with your start off cheaper suggestion.

RG-I didn't realize you were so close. I'm just north of Lake Fork (right on Hopkins/Wood line). I haven't been to Trades Day in a long while. It used to be a good place to pick up good shooters, but last I saw it was nothing but crafts and crap. Many individuals selling used guns down there anymore?

Anyone else near my location?

CnL, I will let you know on the hog for your cooker.  We are supposed to go hunting again this Sunday.  If anything gets killed, I will not have a place to store it.

Necro=LT?  Didn't know that.

TheRedGoat

Did they start accepting feral hogs?  Last time I spoke to them they only took deer.

Goat,

Glad to see you are so open minded.  I have only been on 2 hunts where I had to pay.  Most lease owners want those destructive beasts OFF their property.

1) Musgrove Ranch which was a flat rate of $50 perday, kill all you want.  No transportation services, No processing, No nothing, mainly  No beer at the camp, No night hunting (yeah, right), but you could camp there, and the camp area was nice.  The Sulphur River is their property line and it was flooded all to hell, probably the reason I didn't see any hogs.

2)  There is a ranch in Waskom, Tx that charges $75 a day (same restrictions as above, except night hunting was allowed), and he puts you on a stand next to a feeder.  I had a weblink to it but if you do a google search with "Waskom Hog Hunts" it should pull it up.  He had some pics of the hogs on there as well.

Basically, on the places I have been to and heard about, your fee is for land use only.  You are on your own after that.

I agree that you should guide the hunts and offer the services you mentioned earlier for an added price......then you would definitely have corner on the market, and I for one would pay for a service like that.

My logic on this is that alot of first time hog hunters are discouraged when they pay money and not see a hog (most don't even know what to look for).  Start cheap, put the hunters on the hogs and I am sure they will become addicted to it as we are, especially if you offer a better service with competitive rates.  I think repeat business would be your money maker, because you can hunt the filthy beasts anytime.

Sounds like you are well on your way, and if I can help in anyway, just ask.  I appreciate the offer of a discount, and will definitley take you up on it.  Hell, Mrs. Jarhead94 just got her first stripped lower to assemble, and she might want to try it out on a hawg.

Good Luck,

Jarhead94

Same here!  I kept thinking about it, but never could put a face with the name.

[url]http://jwhuntingpreserve.tripod.com/huntingpreserve/id10.html[/url]

Another hog hunting service, with their fees.

I am pretty sure my prices are going to be the cheapest around.  

100.00 BASIC for putting you out in the woods/pasture and coming back in a couple of hours to pick you up.

175.00 GUIDED for me to walk with you and help you locate and shoot a trophy.

50.00 per hog, flat rate, no games with prices per pound, length of tusks, etc.

You will be responsible for field dressing.  I'll help on the guided hunt unless you gut shoot the son of a gun.

When the knife only or dog hunts are available I will let you all know.

Anyone interested, let me know.  

I think me and about 3 others are interested...

Will the basic hunt be $100 total for each time you go out there, or $100 each?

and what does the "basic" hunt consist of?

$100.00 per person per day (7am-6pm).  $50.00 for each hog killed, regardless of size, weight, tusks.  Kill as many as you want.

I think you will find, if you check the web, this is the best deal going for hog hunting.  No "Trophy" surcharge for large hogs, no daily limits.

Basic means I will meet you at your motel, (or if you are driving up for the day only, then give you a map to my house.)

Transport you and your friends to the 'lease' for the morning hunt.  Give you a map, suggest a few places to hunt, discuss some tips and tricks, signs to look for on the way.

Drop you off and pick you back up a few hours later.  If you did not get any hogs, then we will try another place (or change strategies for the afternoon hunt)

I will help you load your kills, tell you how to get to a local processor, or drive you back to your vehicle where we will transfer the hog to your icechest and send you on your way.  If you are not finished hunting, then I will take you back to the lease.  Hunt ends at 6:00pm

You will need to provide your own guns, ammo, clothing, knives, ice, ice chests, food, drinks, etc.

Plan ahead.  These hogs like to live in wet and boggy places.  Waterproof (and even snakeproof) is a good idea.  

If you kill a hog, expect to drag it out.  Even on a fully guided hunt, it would take two or more people working thier butts off to drag some of these hogs 300 yds through the brush.

Bring a change of clothes or two.

TheRedGoat

Now we're talking.  

Where I hunt, it's $25/day + $25/hog, with NOTHING provided and no night hunting.  But I'm always up for something new once in a while.

If the Kill Fee is $50, that includes taking them with us, using your truck, right?

What if we bring our own coolers with us?

What if we want to leave them lay, to help the land owners with the extermination?

etc. etc. etc.?


I see you keep changing your signature:
  Its now:
     Hog hunting:
     1 person, 1 day
     Basic 100.00
     Guided 175.00

     *Kill Fee 50.00

is this the final change?

In your hunting menu, you might have the hours per day posted, when lunch hour is, as well as the hours for night-time hunting (and pricing). Have a whole day planned.

Also, what kind of deal are you making with the land owners to allow you to charge for letting people hunt on their land?

Not to come off as a know-it-all but I stay far away from guided hunts. That is just no-fun.

I pay strict attention to all property lines (GPS coords of property lines are great!) and be respectful of other hunters (when encountered). Just give me a portion of land to roam with a few piggies on it.

I do most of my Hog hunting in the Paris area on private land. I pay a (day only) land "rental" and kill fee. I don't have a problem with that.

I like to be in nature alone, I hunt alone. When hunting with friends I tend to go my own way. I like to do a combination of sitting and stalking. The hunting style depends on gut feelings, time of day, etc. I grew up in the Northwood’s hunting Whitetail, which requires a much more disciplined hunting method and sitters and stalkers always hunted solo.
Part of the fun is learning the territory; I would come back again to use knowledge I gained from a previous trip.


I am really interested in finding a place where overnight primitive camping is allowed for 2 day and night Hog/Coyote hunt. Stalking hogs with a night vision equipment....That sounds like FUN!

I think these rates are final.  

Yes, I will help you load the hog into my truck and haul it back to yours, or to the processing plant.  

I met with a hog hunting buddy tonight (one of the fellows with hog dogs.)  I ran the idea past him and he is looking into the lands around that are available.

As for what I am paying the landowners, that is still up for negotiation.  I am not sure how much it is going to cost to lease these different places for hog hunting.  

Whether you keep the hog or not, you would pay for each one killed.  This prevents overkill of the population.  Some people like to hunt only the big ones, it would be sad to see a large boar wasted, when another hunter might have chosen to have it mounted the following week.

As for hours for the hours.  On the 'basic' hunt you can hunt from 7am-6pm.  Stop for lunch whenever you would like.  I drop you off, and come back when you tell me to be at the front gate.

For those who are not experienced, I would recommend the fully guided hunt.  I can teach you how to read the signs, take you to known areas with bedding sites, wallows, feeding spots, etc.

For now, let's keep the pricing simple.  Day hunts only, but I will add in a nighttime hunt as things develop.  

I will know more next week after I have spoken to some landowners and some other hog/dog hunters.

There is a post in the hunting forum with other details.

Maddog  I could make money at $25/day $25 /hog nothing provided, if I owned the land.  I will be paying for several leases and that will increase my overhead.

TheRedGoat

Me too.  I have hunted hogs alone many times.  However, I have found it is more fun to be with others.  Once a kill is made, two guys working together can make dragging, field dressing and loading a hog much more manageable.

For safety reasons, I do NOT recommend an inexperienced hunter venture into a hog hunt alone.  Although the chances of a crazy boar rushing you does exist, the possibility of a serious fall, snake bite, or even disorientation in the woods could make a minor situation into an emergency.

Once I show beginners the ropes on a guided hunt, they will be able to go back without my assitance on future hunts.  After two or three times in the thick of things on a creek bottom, you will know what to do, how to stalk, what trail signs mean, etc.

Hey, I am a school teacher, remember?  You ain't going to go hunting with this guide and not learn anything.

I have had a couple of requests for stand/blind hunting on feeders.  I will let you guys know if I can work this out.  One place I am looking into has existing deer stands and feeders, so I will keep that option open.

I appreciate all the input, looks like this thing is going to work out A-ok!

TheRedGoat

Count me in at any cost. I've been dying to kill some pigs but don't know anybody who owns land.

Need contact info (website would be cool) and directions.  Sounds like fun.