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Posted: 7/25/2001 1:56:43 PM EDT
[#1]
I do, but I can't
"The page cannot be found"[:|] |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 2:02:16 PM EDT
[#2]
link fixed.
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Posted: 7/25/2001 2:25:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Excellent! Thanks for going to the trouble!
The next full up war will be a party with weapons like this. |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 2:59:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Uhhh....
"Son, which field do you want to choose, you wanna drive a tank or blow the shit out of tin cans like them" "ahh, lemme think about that for a second...what was the blowing the shit out of things?" Nice sound on the second closeup, SPOIINGGGGG[frag] |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:05:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Is that what they used for TWA flt800?
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:10:27 PM EDT
[#6]
so for a SHTF situation do i need a .308 FAL or Armalite, or is my .223 OK?
[thinking] Zaz |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:19:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: so for a SHTF situation do i need a .308 FAL or Armalite, or is my .223 OK? [thinking] Zaz |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:24:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Zazou, you wouldn't be poking fun at those SHTF threads, are you?
---------------------------------------------------------- Javelin missile data: [URL]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/javelin.htm[/url] Pretty destructive for an 8.4 kilogram warhead. |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:50:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Zazou, you wouldn't be poking fun at those SHTF threads, are you? No way dude... I want some firepower!!! [;)] Zaz |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 3:54:16 PM EDT
[#10]
So much for the days of hiding behind a tank...
I'll bet they stopped selling those at K-mart too. Bastards. [8P] |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 4:05:17 PM EDT
[#11]
NICE ! [beer]
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Posted: 7/25/2001 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Either David Copperfield made that tank disappear behind the smoke, or that is some serious firepower. :)
How many inches (or yards?) or steel do you think it would take to make a target safe from that beast? |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 4:27:13 PM EDT
[#13]
The exact penetration capabilities of the Javelin are classified, but its 127 mm tandem warhead can "kill all current and planned armor threats." It can be used in the indirect (pictured) mode for top attack or direct mode. Since the top of the tanks don't offer a lot of protection, the normal mode is indirect unless the target is under cover (or against a bunker).
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Posted: 7/25/2001 4:36:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Where did they do that???? And where did they get such wonderful toys!!!!! I must have one!!!
[beer] |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 5:34:09 PM EDT
[#15]
I just want to say, that is the coolest thing I have seen in my life. I must have watched that 20 times now. [beer]
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Posted: 7/25/2001 6:21:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I just want to say, that is the coolest thing I have seen in my life. I must have watched that 20 times now. [beer] So, drive down to the Army recruiter and tell him you want to handle the real thang, bro! They will be more than glad to make it happen.[;D] P.S. I watched about 20 times myself...[8)] |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 8:36:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Where the hell did that thing go???
Doesn't look like there's enough scrap metal left to make a 12-pack! |
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Posted: 7/25/2001 9:16:48 PM EDT
[#18]
[rocket]
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Posted: 7/25/2001 9:17:50 PM EDT
[#19]
I have a question in watching the video, I cant see how that missile is guided via heat or wire fed. Is it a stinger missile? I watched it in slow motion and it looks like it is manned w/ someone on top of the turet! Inquiring minds wanna know!
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Posted: 7/26/2001 3:06:18 AM EDT
[#20]
I think I read that this one of those "fire-n-forget" missles, self steering. That tank must have had a full load of ammo for that fire ball to come up like that. wow. even the hull is in pieces.
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Posted: 7/26/2001 3:34:49 AM EDT
[#21]
The Javeline uses a thermal imager, once the gunner locks in the image of the target, it is a fire and forget weapon.
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Posted: 7/26/2001 3:38:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Give me one now!! um please? [>]:)]
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Posted: 7/26/2001 5:44:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Where the hell did that thing go??? Doesn't look like there's enough scrap metal left to make a 12-pack! For the "rest of the story" look here: [url]http://home.hiwaay.net/~sickler/opforstuff/vids/T-72Javelinslideshow.ppt[/url] I would like to have a couple of these stashed in the garage, just in case... |
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Posted: 7/26/2001 10:35:42 AM EDT
[#24]
I can't get that link to work. I mean I can get the file downloaded but I can't get anything out of it. Help me please! I wanna see this thing!
[>:/] snake |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 8:54:47 AM EDT
[#25]
This test was conducted at the Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville, AL. Someone passed around the Powerpoint presentation that shows the still pictures and in one of those pictures, you can see the Apollo and Shuttle vibration stands in the background. This test looks like it was conducted on one of the SW test ranges south of James Record Road and just east of Zeirdt Rd.
I hope we have this type of missle, or its equivalent, the next time we go to war. No tank will be safe! Merlin |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 9:46:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Does anyone make a IWB holster for that sucker??
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Posted: 7/27/2001 6:25:21 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't think so. I sure wouldn't mind havin one of these at my side 24/7 though.
[:D] Snake |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 10:35:15 AM EDT
[#28]
A top hit on a M1 wouldnt be nearly so spectacular. At most it would set off one of the three ammo cells in the bustle. That will ring the crews bells, but wont kill them. A hit on the fighting compartment roof might kill the crew in the turet- but the driver would be untouched and could drive them away to safety. You have to use top attack against a M1 because a five inch warhead wont do anything against the Chobham frontal armour.
T72's go up spectacularly because they use seperate loading ammo with a auto loader. The ammo is carried in a carosel mag beneath the turret floor. And there is no internal compartmentation, the Russians made the tank too small and light for that. Just about any penetration of the fighting compartment will set off the propellant, thats why so many T72's were found with their turrets launched during the Gulf War. The problem with the Javalin is that it weighs 54pounds. The entire system, with control unit attached weighs 67 pounds. Its just barely man portable. The lightfighters have SERIOUS problems with AA plt people collapsing and falling out on rout marches. The control unit is a wonder of engenerring and has a wonderful thermal sight, the most advanced yet fielded by any army in a man-portable size. It weighs only 13 pounds, and they are in constant demand for survailance missions, even in locales where there are no armor threats around. |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 10:46:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Although it is still heavy, the whole system for a Javelin weighs like 49.5 lbs.
The design philosophy for an M1 and FSU armor is vastly different, we want crew survivability, they want cheap to manufacture weapons. |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 12:17:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Oh, I almost forgot, not only is Javalin fire and forget, it is the first US anti-armor weapon that can be safely fired from indoors. The launch charge is encapsulated and balanced by a plastic confettie counterweight. It can be safely fired with a obstical as close as 3ft behind the launcher.
STLRN is it true that Javalin has been chosen over TOW to be the antitank missile on the AAAV? I was told that the Marines prefered it because It gave commonality with the infantry AA plts. It was fire and forget It could be fired safely without the vheicle being completely buttoned up. And this outweighed having only half the range of a TOW and a much smaller warhead. You heard anything about this? |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 12:23:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I can't get that link to work. I mean I can get the file downloaded but I can't get anything out of it. Help me please! I wanna see this thing! [>:/] snake Snake, It's a 2.7mb page you are downloading. If you are not pn a fast connection it might take a while. When it's done it should pop up in your browser window. The click with your mouse anywhere on the image to move to the next slide. The tank is confetti! It's worth the wait to see the effect. A tornado wouldn't have scattered the parts that far... |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 12:46:30 PM EDT
[#32]
before
[img]http://home.hiwaay.net/~sickler/opforstuff/vids/t72beforejavelin.jpg[/img] after [img]http://home.hiwaay.net/~sickler/opforstuff/vids/t72afterjavelin.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 3:22:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Now given what we see here, you have to ask,
What the hell is China thinking, buying more shit like this off of the Russians?? The T80 and T90 are only product improved versions of the T72, the basic hull is the same. They have changed the engines, played with the armor a little, and put a modern FCS in it. But its still the same damn hull, you can tell just by looking at pictures, the size and shape are the same! They are going to continue to go off like roman candles whenever we hit them. |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 7:49:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Hey whats up with the power point presntation? Every time I try to download it it gets to 39% complete and then stops- whats up with that?
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Posted: 7/28/2001 11:28:14 PM EDT
[#35]
That was great!!!!!
Now that's what I call tax dollars at work..... |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 11:52:08 PM EDT
[#36]
I knew there was a reason I dont envy tankers one bit. The reason is called Javelin
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Posted: 7/29/2001 1:24:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Glad I wasn't a tanker. Big targets suck to be in!
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Posted: 7/29/2001 6:15:23 AM EDT
[#38]
The Marine Corps is working on an improved Javelin as a possible TOW replacement. It will use an improved war head and have an objective range greater than 4000 m.
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Posted: 7/29/2001 6:23:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Now given what we see here, you have to ask, What the hell is China thinking, buying more shit like this off of the Russians?? They are going to continue to go off like roman candles whenever we hit them. I guess my question is, Do you think "we" will ever be shooting these things at the Chinese? The odds of the US being in a large scale face-to-face Eurpoean style ground war with the Chinese are slim. Theu don't have the capability to get over here and we certainly aren't gonna take them on in their own territory. Any future engagement with the Chinese will be by air or sea, not land. Other China vs US scenarios seem more likely to be Korea or Vietnam style deals, with China providing material support to their clients. It won't be Chinese crews in these things when they blow, but the Chinese will be able to say that they hepled their Socialist neighbors. In any other major ground war scenario in the area, it looks like China vs. Someone Else. Everyone else in the region is similarly armed so the Chinese are at no disadvantage. Any professionals on here who can shed more light on this? |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 6:27:46 AM EDT
[#40]
My unit is slated to field these by the end of FY02, I can't wait.
Of course, live fire is just a pipe dream.... |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 7:05:11 AM EDT
[#41]
The armored knight ruled the battlefield until the long bow allowed the average foot soldier to defeat his armor. And so it goes with the tank.
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Posted: 7/29/2001 8:06:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: The armored knight ruled the battlefield until the long bow allowed the average foot soldier to defeat his armor. And so it goes with the tank. Do remember before the tank rolls, artillery will pound on the adversary. Dismounted missle teams would suffer hard from that. Attack helicopters and dismounted infantry would come along with the tanks and pounce on any missle team slow to move after a kill It would take an expert response by all elements to handle a combined arms assault by hundreds of these. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 9:28:48 AM EDT
[#43]
The Chinese are currently modernizing their armor force, but as someone pointed out, they don't have a real power projection capability right now. Could we fight them in a direct conflict in the future, yes. When and were are the big questions.
The use of combined arms helps to reduce the effectiveness of any system. In a prepared defense, if the enemy is firing a doctrinal prep, there is good chance that these (or any) systems wouldn't get the chance to get a few rounds off if they are in the defense, because of the enemy suppression. The secret of any system surviving an enemy prep is not to be where the prep is when it lands. But this system would be very good at attrite the enemy echelons at the edge of the local commander's battle space. A perfect example occurred at NTC during a heavy-light rotation a little while ago. During a prepared defense, a Javelin team using shoot and scoot tactics and a Humvee to carry reloads eliminated over 90 percent of the 11th ACRs FSE, before the AGMB even reach the security zone. The next rotation a Javelin team elimanted most of M1A1 company in its assembly area because of bad long range visual IFF. So the system has a lot of potential, but to exploit it there are still hurtles to overcome. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 9:32:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Fighting the Chinese will certainly not take
place in our great Nation. How are they gonna get here? I think the Javelin has just made armored vehicles obsolete. All with 18 pounds of good old HE. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 9:40:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: The Marine Corps is working on an improved Javelin as a possible TOW replacement. It will use an improved war head and have an objective range greater than 4000 m. We may just have been watching one, this thing took 12sec to reach the target. Watch the clock on your media player. I thought that Javalin was supersonic, if it was doing 370m/sec the target was 4km away. If it was 4km away that was a REALLY big bang, considering the size of fireball from behind the launch position. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 9:57:07 AM EDT
[#46]
The current version of Javelin reaches 1,000 m in 4.6 sec and 2,000m in 14.5 sec
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Posted: 7/29/2001 10:04:43 AM EDT
[#47]
The T-80UM-1, first displayed in 1997, is fitted with the Arena Tank Active Defense System. The system is designed to defeat missiles such as TOW and Hellfire as well as anti-tank rockets. The Russians have been aggressively marketing this system around the world with success in Europe. At IDEX-95, the Russians may have found partners in France's Thomson-CSF and Germany's Daimler-Benz Aerospace. The system has possibly been fitted to French LeClerc's and German Leopards.
There is also the Shtora-1 tank defense system. This system is intended to spoof or blind the missile tracker of standard wire-guided missiles. [from [b]Soviet/Russian Armor and Artillery Design Practices: 1945 to Present by Andrew Hull, David R. Markov, and Steven J. Zaloga[/b] It'll be interesting to see if anyone actually fields tanks fitted with such systems. Will these defenses be the key to MBT survival on the next battlefield? I still wonder about the vulnerability of all the external sensors continuously being added. The Arena system adds IR detectors as well as a millimeter band radar array at the rear of the turret. If this system proves effective, I guess the next generation of missiles will have ECCM installed to spoof such defenses. [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Wadman/T-80Arena1.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 10:24:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Jeeze, for all the money they are spending on toys they could have just redesigned the tank properly.
Having said that however, Boeing is also working on a mini missile called the Small Low-cost Interceptor Device to replace chaff/flare decoys on aircraft and ships, its small enough that it could work on tanks too. It is a small, very simple IR homing, short range missile that is designed to throw itself into the path of a diving missile and burst in front of it, shredding the incoming missile with tungstin shards. I am suprised that GE hasnt come forward with a mini-Phalanx built around the 5.56 or 7.62mm miniguns. Thanks for the info STLRN. I stand corrected, but that meens Javalin isnt much faster than TOW. We tested the Stingray laser based EO jammer during the Gulf War, but apparently they didnt work very well. Although the manuals for the mechanized infantry platoon and Bradley Fighting Vheicle still carry instructions on how to use it as part of the unit fire plan, it hasnt been seen very often since. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 10:49:42 AM EDT
[#49]
One of the problems with the Arena is that is doesn't work if the commanders hatch is open (should be about 90 percent of the time with a good crew). Since the weapon operates similar to a claymore, if it did work with the TC out side the vehicle, there would not be much left of the TC when it functioned.
SHORTA is like the IR dazzlers, we use in the our military, they sometimes work, sometimes they don't. But they don't work against IIR missles like Javelin or Maverick. |
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Posted: 7/29/2001 10:58:54 AM EDT
[#50]
anyone else have any neat vids like that? tanks helies ammo bunker planes whatever lets see em all!
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