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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:59:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:01:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:04:15 AM EST by booshmaster]
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the Pontiac emblem on the hood

Actually there are a lot of problems similar to yours on this car. Not saying it's a lemon, but they do repreogram the chip on this thing a lot. Google your problem for details. Try the groups and not the web.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:02:14 AM EST
try swapping the coils around and see if #1 starts missing, if so, get a new coil pack
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:03:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:05:08 AM EST
also check the manual, at least with my BMW, you can check the resistance of the coil pack to see if its still good.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:05:29 AM EST
It does sound like you are going to need a new coil unit.

If you do replace that, then be sure to replace all of the wires and plugs (if they arn't new, that is)

I can't think of anything else that it would be.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:13:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:47:19 AM EST
I miss read the title. I thought you wanted help SHOOTING a Pontiac Sunfire.LOL. If it does come to that you can IM me . Well take that s.o.b. down WHAT EVER IT TAKES!!!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:51:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By coondog:
I miss read the title. I thought you wanted help SHOOTING a Pontiac Sunfire.LOL. If it does come to that you can IM me . Well take that s.o.b. down WHAT EVER IT TAKES!!!



Haha! Me too!

D(Have.416Rigby,WillTravel)Peacher
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:51:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:58:53 AM EST by MillerSHO]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:01:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:04:31 AM EST by PONY_DRIVER]
#1 problem..it's a rebodied Cavalier.


Wife's car (98 Cavalier) did the same thing as you described above. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect plug wire replaced under warranty by GM. HTH

ETE; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:05:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:10:46 AM EST by Torf]

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
1999 Pontiac Sunfire. 4 cylinder.

Runs rough. Loss of power, but not stalling or dying.

It was hooked up to a handheld diagnostic computer and the code indicated that the third cylinder is missing spark.

Switched number 3 and 4 plugs, still missing on three.

Switched number 3 and 4 spark plug boot, still missing on three.

I removed the coil unit and it appears intact, no obvious rust, corrosion, or poor contacts.

Is there anything else it could be? I hate to buy a coil unit unless I know that is the problem.

Next step is a mechanic unless I can isolate the problem myself.

Since the coil unit is 'shared' by plugs 3 and 4, is it possible there is something besides that coil that is causing the problem?

Thanks in advance,

TRG



Check the wiring to plug 3. It is getting a current? I didn't read carefully enough!

Maybe a dumb question, but is the cylinder actually missing a spark? Is the cylinder flooded? It may be a bad code reading, or the code reading may be indicitive of a separate problem.

If the cylinder is flooded, then the plug may not be properly seated, or there is a short in there somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:05:52 AM EST
two things. Duct Tape and Tanerite.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:07:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

ETE; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.



The autolite plugs are nice, but the best plugs available are the Bosch, hands down. I've done many a tune up and the Bosch are by far the nicest, best available plugs, and they have a lifetime warranty!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:07:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By mrphelps:
two things. Duct Tape and Tanerite.



Much flashier with a Coke bottle full of diesel taped on as well. Or so I have heard.


Woody
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:11:05 AM EST
Check the baseplate for the coil packs.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:11:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:14:29 AM EST
Update?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:18:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By purplecheese:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

ETE; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.



The autolite plugs are nice, but the best plugs available are the Bosch, hands down. I've done many a tune up and the Bosch are by far the nicest, best available plugs, and they have a lifetime warranty!



True they are even nicer, but even pricier.


I reiterate this though...

#1 problem..it's a rebodied Cavalier.


Wife's car (98 Cavalier) did the same thing as you described above. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect plug wire replaced under warranty by GM. HTH

ETA; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.



SHO,

I think that I all but earned my ASE certification on my wifes cavalier, my opinion about AC delco parts and GM products is well founded.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:34:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:39:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

Originally Posted By purplecheese:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

ETE; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.



The autolite plugs are nice, but the best plugs available are the Bosch, hands down. I've done many a tune up and the Bosch are by far the nicest, best available plugs, and they have a lifetime warranty!



True they are even nicer, but even pricier.

I reiterate this though...

#1 problem..it's a rebodied Cavalier.


Wife's car (98 Cavalier) did the same thing as you described above. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect plug wire replaced under warranty by GM. HTH

ETA; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.



SHO,

I think that I all but earned my ASE certification on my wifes cavalier, my opinion about AC delco parts and GM products is well founded.



You could be Mr Goodwrench himself but it wouldn't change the fact that AC Delco ignition components are the best parts use in GM products when dealing with ignition.

Not only do I have personal experience, but any GM discussion boards with their thousands of users would tell you the same thing.
It's quite common for bosch plugs to become fried in a short amount in GM engines.

Can't explain why, it's just the way it is.



Whether thay are better than Bosch I do not know or care really, it's just "one of those things" to me. I do know that the "100,000 mile" AC Delco plugs that came stock in my wife's car were completely useless at 36,000 miles. They had deposits on the ground and the electrodes loked like sheet metal that spent a year or two in salt water....they were FUGLY. I have never seen anything quite like it before or since. All four plugs were like that. Her car also had a penchant for warping rotors often.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:39:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
#1 problem..it's a rebodied Cavalier.


Wife's car (98 Cavalier) did the same thing as you described above. Turns out that the #3 plug wire was arcing against the block...factory defect plug wire replaced under warranty by GM. HTH

ETE; Spark plugs were NASTY! AC DELCO parts are CRAP. Chebby owns them lock stack and barrell, I suggest Autolite plugs. While you're at it change the air filter and check the trans fluid.




I had a Beretta do the same thing. Plug wire melted against the exhaust manifold and started arcing. I was testing them manually (pulling wires) and shocked the piss out of myself.



So, by boots, do you mean wires? If you havent replaced the wires, do so.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:48:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:51:34 AM EST by MillerSHO]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:48:43 AM EST
Did I mention boots? Anyhow the thick part of the wire, between the plug and where it's recessed in the head was were it was arcing against the block. There were a few light grey marks where it had arced. Apparently it was a very common problem as evidenced by this...taking a trip to MD to visit my family. About 100 miles out the check engine light comes on and the car starts "chuggin" again. Chugged for a few seconds and kept on running smooth with the CE Light on. Now the car used to only chug at slow speeds when you weren't leaning into the throttle. When I got to the dealership where my buddy worked the guy said "It's probably a misfire code...from plug #3". He plugged in the comp and sure as shit he was right. Luckily we had less than 50K miles on the car and it was done free of charge as I was broke at that time.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:55:28 AM EST
Only one thing can fix a Pontiac Sunfire.


Tannerite.

The more you use, the better it'll work.



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:07:11 AM EST
I was going to mention the Binary Load Lifters and if they checked out; to run diagnostics on the Moisture Evaporators prior to the Flux Capacitor reboot....
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:09:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

As an ASE mechanic, I would think you would know the truth behind any 100K mile claim with anything. We could start using the Dexcool example with GM products, but we shouldn't need to go there. I've never seen ANY plug last longer then 50K and when they did, they should have been replaced because your not getting the exactly the correct burn a new plug would give you even though its still letting off a spark.

Caps, rotors(if they apply) AND plugs should be replaced at 30K, coolent should be flushed EVERY year, tranny filter and fluid need to be replaced every 30K, etc etc. There's just no market hype that can change any of this.




So, both my 97 bmw528 has a sealed tranny, no fluid change for life. (Unfortunately, I think this means the life of the trans, which will be shortned due to not changing tranny fluid, but technically correct, as all tranny fluid is lifetime fluid, if you don't change it, it will last as long as the transmission does)

Bought my wife a 2002 explorer, same thing, no tranny flid change.

BMW has 102k miles, and the tranny is still strong. Same on explorer with 46k.

TXL
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:11:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:15:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:25:57 AM EST
I thought this was going to a thread about the appropriate way to deal with a troublesome GM product, shoot it... hence the birth of the term, troubleshoot
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:32:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:30:41 PM EST
Don't buy a GM 4-cyl car unless it is actually made by Toyota or Suzuki. Many of their 6-cyl cars are excellent.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:44:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

As an ASE mechanic, I would think you would know the truth behind any 100K mile claim with anything. We could start using the Dexcool example with GM products, but we shouldn't need to go there. I've never seen ANY plug last longer then 50K and when they did, they should have been replaced because your not getting the exactly the correct burn a new plug would give you even though its still letting off a spark.

Caps, rotors(if they apply) AND plugs should be replaced at 30K, coolent should be flushed EVERY year, tranny filter and fluid need to be replaced every 30K, etc etc. There's just no market hype that can change any of this.





The ASE comment was sarcasm. I understand that the 100k parts is hype and BS, but still. I also know about Dexcool, seems the electric cooling fan behind the radiator died one time...temp guage went straight to red and it had NO coolant left in it. None that I could see anyway. IIRC it took 2-2.5 gallons of coolant misture to fill it back up.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:17:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By quijanos:
I was going to mention the Binary Load Lifters and if they checked out; to run diagnostics on the Moisture Evaporators prior to the Flux Capacitor reboot....



"No thats not it! Bring me the HYDROSPANNERS!"
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:23:37 AM EST
Did you say, "Motor was rebuilt about 2500 miles ago"?

WTF?

The car can't even make it 5 years without a rebuild? Jeez, things have gotten worse since I retired from being a Mechanic.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:32:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:40:23 AM EST
I have a 1991 Cavalier with the 2.2L 4 cyl. It's got 205,000 on it. Other than regular maintenance, I've had to replace:

1 water pump
2 alternators
1 heater core

That's it.

The car doesn't owe me a dime!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:55:40 AM EST
"The motor was rebuilt after the oil pump seized, breaking the chain that drives the unit. No oil = burnt bearings."

Understood, but that doesn't make it right. BTW, that happened to my dad's Pontiac as well. That's why I check for recalls and TSB's for every vehicle I buy.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:01:46 AM EST
Throw it away
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:22:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 6:23:16 AM EST by FourStringSlinger]

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Don't buy a GM 4-cyl car unless it is actually made by Toyota or Suzuki. Many of their 6-cyl cars are excellent.

GunLvr



+1

Ex-girlfriend had an '89 Sunbird, I begged her not to buy it...and she lived to regret it.

That car was a huge stinking pile of shit. The only car I've ever wanted to completely destroy.

Instead of destroying it, I sold it to my mom, at a profit. [My mom and I aren't exactly freindly].

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:24:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 6:29:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Don't buy a GM 4-cyl car unless it is actually made by Toyota or Suzuki. Many of their 6-cyl cars are excellent.

GunLvr



+1

Ex-girlfriend had an '89 Sunbird, I begged her not to buy it...and she lived to regret it.

That car was a huge stinking pile of shit. The only car I've ever wanted to completely destroy.

Instead of destroying it, I sold it to my mom, at a profit. [My mom and I aren't exactly freindly].




Oh, that's wrong man... !

ROFL

TRG



I get warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

Oh, almost forgot my .02- It sounds like one of the wires may be malfing from heat, and arcing to the block...IIRC, I had the same problem at one point.

Either way, good luck getting it straightened out. Cars suck.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:06:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:14:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:21:10 AM EST by jchewie]

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
try swapping the coils around and see if #1 starts missing, if so, get a new coil pack



Good idea.

TRG



That was my suggestion.

IM me if you want one free.

Edited - just saw your update. Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:22:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:41:43 AM EST
Have you gotten new plugs and wires yet?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:49:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:55:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:57:19 AM EST
Hmmm I heard about this on an S10 also ( same 2200 engine)

I just searched some of the S10 sites I frequent.. Most of them ended up being a clogged injector. A few of them had to do with TPS (throttle position sensor)


Also just for the heck of it, reset the ECM ( remove positive batt terminal and let it sit over night.. some people also ground them out, I won't tell you to do that, I havent tried it myself)
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:07:04 AM EST
Dude, my Alero has the same issue. "misfire #3 cylinder", with check engine light on. It runs ok, but, but hesitates on acceleration. It has done this for the last 20k miles. I replaced the spark plugs and spark plug boots, swapped coil packs around, then unhooked the battery to reset the computer. No change. I was advised by my favorite mechanic (Olds/Pontiac/GMC dealership) that the only thing left would be the injector on that cylinder. They are essentially an electrical solenoid, not that hard to imagine. I just haven't gotten around to researching how to change it. I do know you have to depressurize the fuel rail.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:30:36 AM EST
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