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Posted: 7/4/2002 6:59:59 PM EST
I have a friend who is in charge of setting up all the traffic signs in town ,he is a police officer and has to know all the rules governing the posting of the signs,he helped me a while ago when i got a ticket,the law in most states says that a traffic sign must be X amount of feet from the ground. (all signs,speed limit and others including stop signs) In other words the bottom of the sign in new jersey must be 7 feet above the ground or it is not a legit sign and can not be enforced. If you have a simular law where you live it will be worth checking out and measuring the sign. Since that day i learned about this i have beat 3 tickets, 1 for me and 2 for friends. Ain't the law cool when you find that they didn't do their job or homework. Also all traffic lights must be reg. with the DOT or they are illegal to. The judges in all three courts had no choice but to throw out the tickets,you should have seen the pissed off prosecutors and cops. To this day they never changed those signs and are still illegal. Can you say loop hole? And to all LEO's don't tell me to obey the traffic laws and i wont get a ticket because if the sign is illegal i am obeying the law.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:24:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:31:13 PM EST
Sorry Paul ,I guess there is no justice in Ca.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:34:44 PM EST
hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:36:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
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Tired of putting up with idiots who try to sneak through loopholes, aren't we?
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:38:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By nm_man:
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
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Tired of putting up with idiots who try to sneak through loopholes, aren't we?
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[:)] little bit. i just LOVE when people think that by going to court they're gonna automatically win. never happens EVER. i love getting paid for court, never lost one yet.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:42:14 PM EST
Paul i also should mention that we brought with us the law book with the state regs and showed the judge in black and white what the law says and they were pretty much handcuffed and had to follow the law and dismiss the tickets. They would have looked pretty stupid if they ignored the law that was right infront of them and found us guilty. It would also have been won on appeal before the superior court in a heart beat,and judges don't like to get overturned.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:46:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
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Well, testy aren't we ? If the sign is illegal then the ticket is also illegal,so how am i breaking the law? Sheeple always obey illegal laws!
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:49:18 PM EST
Happens all the time.[beer]
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:52:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 7:59:44 PM EST by jrzy]
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By nm_man:
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
View Quote
Tired of putting up with idiots who try to sneak through loopholes, aren't we?
View Quote
[:)] little bit. i just LOVE when people think that by going to court they're gonna automatically win. never happens EVER. i love getting paid for court, never lost one yet.
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Well if you give me a ticket that was illegal ,you will lose! If you give me a ticket that i deserved, you will not see my face in court because i will pay my ticket and never complain. If you guys (LEO's) want us to obey the laws then you should start obeying tham all to. Some of you guys (not all) use those badges like get out of jail free cards,you are not exempt from traffis laws ,but very few of you do the speed limit because you know when you do get stopped you flash the badge and like magic the offence goes away. And you end up bullshitting with the officer for a few minutes and you are on your way. Deny that. One more thing ,I have posted this on other boards and it is always LEO's that get pissed,I think i know why ,You give someone a ticket and you assume they will be found guilty and when that does not happen you guys have to admit that you were wrong and that irks the hell out of you. Well guess what ,you ain't perfect and you don't know all the laws ,so you make a mistake once in a while,you are only human,admit it and move on.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:02:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 8:04:39 PM EST by quietshoez]
i know. my job is REALLY easy let me guess, you "Pay my salary" i'm not going to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. i am not getting into a pissing match over your loophole searching and law dodging, you know you are wrong. i'm not getting paid, so you are not worth it. that's why i don't live in new jersey. yes, i do flash my badge, bitch, isn't it? [:)] (edited to add , i get free meals too.)
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:06:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez: i know. my job is REALLY easy let me guess, you "Pay my salary" i'm not going to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. i am not getting into a pissing match over your loophole searching and law dodging, you know you are wrong. i'm not getting paid, so you are not worth it. that's why i don't live in new jersey. yes, i do flash my badge, bitch, isn't it? [:)] (edited to add , i get free meals too.)
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Wow, sound a little bitter? Maybe a change of careers is in order.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:09:15 PM EST
I guess some cops do have a hardon 24/7
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:10:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dukota: Wow, sound a little bitter? Maybe a change of careers is in order.
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not at all, i love my job. i also get a kick out of getting paid to go to court dealing with loophole seekers like above, he is the minority. personally, i encourage it, more court time for me, and in the end, always more fines. don't let this guy shit you into thinking you'll get away with this. maybe in the people's liberal republic of jersey, but not anywhere else.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:15:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By Dukota: Wow, sound a little bitter? Maybe a change of careers is in order.
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not at all, i love my job. i also get a kick out of getting paid to go to court dealing with loophole seekers like above, he is the minority. personally, i encourage it, more court time for me, and in the end, always more fines. don't let this guy shit you into thinking you'll get away with this. maybe in the people's liberal republic of jersey, but not anywhere else.
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Well I think measuring the height of the signs is taking it a bit to the extreme. That is just searching for a way to get off. I have gotten out of a couple of tickets because of the lack of speed limits being posted. The only one that seemed to know the speed limit was the cop that pulled me over. Wasn't posted anywhere so I got off.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:22:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez: i know. my job is REALLY easy let me guess, you "Pay my salary" i'm not going to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. i am not getting into a pissing match over your loophole searching and law dodging, you know you are wrong. i'm not getting paid, so you are not worth it. that's why i don't live in new jersey. yes, i do flash my badge, bitch, isn't it? [:)] (edited to add , i get free meals too.)
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I am not getting into a pissing match with you , and it's not a loop hole when the signs are posted illegaly,that makes them illegal and it means you can not enforce them,right? I have a gold shield in my window for the last 15 years and also do not get stopped very offten,my whole family has one of the nice PBA metal shields,wanna know why ? Because we do alot for the PD's around here and donate our time and money,not so we get a free shield ,but to help and make a difference and the police dept. here are thankful for the help. As far as your comment about my smarts ,I think you just showed who has the intellect. And I pay for my own meals ,wanna know why? Because I pay more in taxes than you make in two years. OK I guess it has become a pissing match,LOL
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:24:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: OK I guess it has become a pissing match,LOL
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yeah, i guess you're right. look, i just had a bad day, let's just drop it.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 8:31:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By jrzy: OK I guess it has become a pissing match,LOL
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yeah, i guess you're right. look, i just had a bad day, let's just drop it.
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No problem and for the record i am not anti LEO and have many family members that are LEO and and my great great grand father was the first police cheif in a small town in NJ way back ,long ago. And the reason i am still here in new jersey is family,we have been here since the late 1600's. My family settled this part of NJ and we felt we should try and make it better.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 9:15:09 PM EST
It would sure be nice if police men would drop the Us vs. Them mentality occasionally. It makes you have bad days.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:26:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By sfoo: It would sure be nice if police men would drop the Us vs. Them mentality
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Would you prefer were were friends with the crooks? It's my job to catch bad guys, Its what I do, of course it is an advisarial relationship. Maintain your vehicle and drive safe and you will most likely never get pulled over. I'm not out looking for the normal guy who is speeding. I'm looking for the parolee meth addict, with a warrant for his arrest and a bag of weed in his pocket, who is driving with a suspended license, in a POS car with expired registration and a broken headlight. If you spend alot of your time worrying about traffic tickets, you need to re-evaluate your lifestyle.
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:31:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: I have a friend who is in charge of setting up all the traffic signs in town ,he is a police officer and has to know all the rules governing the posting of the signs,he helped me a while ago when i got a ticket,the law in most states says that a traffic sign must be X amount of feet from the ground. (all signs,speed limit and others including stop signs) In other words the bottom of the sign in new jersey must be 7 feet above the ground or it is not a legit sign and can not be enforced. If you have a simular law where you live it will be worth checking out and measuring the sign. Since that day i learned about this i have beat 3 tickets, 1 for me and 2 for friends. Ain't the law cool when you find that they didn't do their job or homework. Also all traffic lights must be reg. with the DOT or they are illegal to. The judges in all three courts had no choice but to throw out the tickets,you should have seen the pissed off prosecutors and cops. To this day they never changed those signs and are still illegal. Can you say loop hole? And to all LEO's don't tell me to obey the traffic laws and i wont get a ticket because if the sign is illegal i am obeying the law.
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Is this on a state road or interstate?
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 11:40:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2002 11:41:52 PM EST by TopCrest]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: If you spend alot of your time worrying about traffic tickets, you need to re-evaluate your lifestyle.
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I only wish most local municipalities could follow your advice. Most cops around could give a fuck less about public safety on the roads, they are strictly revenue collectors. Motorcycle cops are worst, nothing an overglorified tax man. Ive gone on a several ridealongs and most officers tell me that they're just trying to reach their qouta. They're looking for people who wont appear in court and will just pay the fine. Same thing on holidays/ DUI season. If you get pulled over for a moving violation and youre not drunk, they let you go. Theyre looking for DUIs, DUIs=big revenue for city. And if there's more DUIs, that lets them set up bull shit checkpoints to catch even more money... er, I mean drunk drivers, right, thats it.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:47:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 9:45:38 AM EST by Paul]
[:)] [Mr. Jack had nothing to add, was a little bit upset with QuietShoes, and decided to make a lame threat against police officers in violation of the rules - Paul]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:35:51 AM EST
Move along folks...nothing to see Move along folks Exuse me sir, don't look at him We all know CactusJack is an idiot Move along folks
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:02:23 AM EST
Hah, I got that one beat. The signs in NY by me all read "State Speed Limit 55 mph", well, for the past 6 years or so, the State Speed limit is 65mph. The last time I was pulled over for doing 71 in a "55" zone, I just pointed out to the judge that the sign was incorrect, the state spped limit was 65, he dismissed the case.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:23:59 AM EST
In Michigan there has to be a traffic control order for any sign, light, or speed limit. Usually they can find the speed limit order, but the signs and lights are iffy. I subpoena the order and usually get a good plea offer for my client in return before they try looking. I would advise getting an attorney in Michigan because the total process is hard even with the preprinted state court office forms.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:27:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By CactusJack: quietshozz, you are the kind of cop that needs to be burger flipping !! wyth your attitude you'd make a better terrorist !! i belive cops lyke you need to be room temp !!!!!!!!!!! [:D]
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He said he had a bad day. We are ALL entitled to them once in a while. I'd drop it. I will add that I think most tickets are a poor tax. The poor folk can't afford to take time off work to fight a ticket. The wealthy show up in court with a suit in tow and walk right back out. That is IF the wealthy guy gets a ticket in the first place. They tend not to get as many tickets because many LEOs feel that it's not worth risking a lawsuit which every SUIT promises (only based on interviews with three state police representative of NY and CT, not to viewed as a "scientific" survey). Bottom line, poor folk like me have to stand above everyone else and just plain not do anything wrong to attract the attention of the LE community. :-)
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:30:09 AM EST
People with money, and middle class who can't afford the increase in insurance, don't even show up with me in tow. In Michigan my being there is enough for the prehearing, so they can work while I get them a deal or off. It is a tax for poor folk and for those who haven't been told the secret of what to do.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:34:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By nm_man:
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
View Quote
Tired of putting up with idiots who try to sneak through loopholes, aren't we?
View Quote
[:)] little bit. i just LOVE when people think that by going to court they're gonna automatically win. never happens EVER. i love getting paid for court, never lost one yet.
View Quote
So,....who's rights are violated when someone is speeding???
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:40:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By Dukota: Wow, sound a little bitter? Maybe a change of careers is in order.
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not at all, i love my job. i also get a kick out of getting paid to go to court dealing with loophole seekers like above, he is the minority. personally, i encourage it, more court time for me, and in the end, always more fines. don't let this guy shit you into thinking you'll get away with this. maybe in the people's liberal republic of jersey, but not anywhere else.
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Sounds like you'd make a good Fed....
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:01:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By CactusJack: quietshozz, you are the kind of cop that needs to be burger flipping !! wyth your attitude you'd make a better terrorist !! i belive cops lyke you need to be room temp !!!!!!!!!!! [:D]
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Off! Jack, off! Advocating the death of policemen, are we? For a traffic ticket? Or that would be a "traffyck tyckette" or something... [;D]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:03:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: People with money, and middle class who can't afford the increase in insurance, don't even show up with me in tow. In Michigan my being there is enough for the prehearing, so they can work while I get them a deal or off. It is a tax for poor folk and for those who haven't been told the secret of what to do.
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What percentage of these types of cases do you win, if you don't mind me asking? Are some judges likely to look unfavorably at people that are trying to win on a "technicality?"
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:01:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 8:04:28 AM EST by SorryOciffer]
Ok, I have gotten so many tickets I shouldn't drive until 2058, I thought glove boxes were there to hold tickets, but one of the easiest ways to get out of a ticket is to look appropriate. My goal in court is to not get points on my record, I couldgive a shit about fines. I get a haircut, shave, dress more upscale, ditch the earring and use proper tone and language with all the people in the court. You would be AMAZED how well it works. I have had tickets just dismissed. You just cant go into court in your Def Lepard T-shirt, oil stained and ripped jeans, 5 year old nikes, tons of cheap jewelry, ratty hair etc and the grasp of the english language that a 6 year old in the ghetto has and win. It also helps if you dont make regular "visits" to court. I have never seen the same judge twice so I am always a fresh good looking unfamilar mug. I have driven 200 miles to fight a ticket and got it reduced to disobeying a traffic control device. Worth the trip. I like to drive fast and to do that you have to expect some lumps and roll with them and pay your dues but that doesn't mean rolling over. I have my degree in admin of justice, have done internships, and have cop friends and am taking exams now, and let me tell you cops are no saints. Matter of fact getting those free meals (if)in uniform is probably a violation of department regs, falling under the acceptence of gratuities. Best part...my insurence is as low or lower than most people twice my age with a good record. [:D] BrenLover
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:23:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
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First off, you seem to only have half read what I posted based on your reply string.
Would you prefer were were friends with the crooks? It's my job to catch bad guys, Its what I do, of course it is an advisarial relationship.
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So, are speeders bad guys?
Maintain your vehicle and drive safe and you will most likely never get pulled over. I'm not out looking for the normal guy who is speeding. I'm looking for the parolee meth addict, with a warrant for his arrest and a bag of weed in his pocket, who is driving with a suspended license, in a POS car with expired registration and a broken headlight.
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In other words, you'd rather just do profiling? I'm curious what percent of these stops yeild more than a traffic violation.
If you spend alot of your time worrying about traffic tickets, you need to re-evaluate your lifestyle.
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Fortunantely, no. I live between three decent sized Law Enforcement offices (local, county, and CHP) within 5 miles, and I haven't gotten a ticket in a couple of years. Yes, I drive fast...ask DVDtracker if you really want. Every speeding ticket I've gotten I deserved. How many have you gotten the off of because you're a cop? Who do you think you work for? And btw, I only pay part of your salary, the rest if cobbled up from the revenue you generate from ticketing folks. [:P]
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:24:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 9:40:40 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By TopCrest: Ive gone on a several ridealongs and most officers tell me that they're just trying to reach their qouta. .
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That's sad. I would hate my job if it was anything like like that. I don't have qoutas to fill, and I couldnt care less if I ever write a traffic ticket. I do car stops to make observed arrests for misdemeanor and felony violations. Not to write vehicle code infraction cites.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:30:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 9:39:12 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By sfoo: In other words, you'd rather just do profiling? I'm curious what percent of these stops yeild more than a traffic violation.
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Of course I profile. What you call "profiling" is street smarts, common sense, and knowing my patrol area. About 1:3 of my car stops result in a misdemeanor arrest. About 1:10 results in a felony arrest. But I'm better at picking the crooks out of the crowd than most cops. PS.. In 9 years I have writen exactly ZERO speeding tickets.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:31:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:35:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:41:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:49:50 AM EST
Since when is providing a defense at trial considered a "technicality"? If the judge validates it by dismissing the charge justice has been served.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:59:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 11:30:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By rkbar15: Since when is providing a defense at trial considered a "technicality"? If the judge validates it by dismissing the charge justice has been served.
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It depends on the defense. For example, saying your violation was due to a sign falling over is probably a better defense than saying the sign was a 1/2 inch too short. Of course it depends on what the statute said.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 12:10:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez: hey, here's an idea to beat a ticket. don't fucking speed. be a man about it and admit when you're wrong. thanks for playing.
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Screw those tax collectors! It's just glorified Highway Robbery.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:04:27 PM EST
Some cops* are "metermaids",Some cops* catch BG's.Everyone has a bad day now 'n' then.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 3:18:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fian:
Originally Posted By rkbar15: Since when is providing a defense at trial considered a "technicality"? If the judge validates it by dismissing the charge justice has been served.
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It depends on the defense. For example, saying your violation was due to a sign falling over is probably a better defense than saying the sign was a 1/2 inch too short. Of course it depends on what the statute said.
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If the pols write the laws that a sign has to be a set distance from the ground, that is in no way a technicality, it is called following the letter of the law. Oh, if only they would do that with the constitution....
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:04:48 PM EST
(yawn)
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:19:51 PM EST
Now Im not trying to cop-bash in any way here, but where I live, I see cops speeding, turning into the wrong lanes, not using turn signals. etc.. all the time. Now, Im not saying this is true of all LEOs. I just think that if they are going to ticket us for these things, then they also need to obey the laws, they need to be role models. not just disobey the rules because they can.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 4:33:29 PM EST
If you guys (LEO's) want us to obey the laws then you should start obeying tham all to. Some of you guys (not all) use those badges like get out of jail free cards,you are not exempt from traffis laws ,but very few of you do the speed limit because you know when you do get stopped you flash the badge and like magic the offence goes away. And you end up bullshitting with the officer for a few minutes and you are on your way. Deny that.
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Not only do cops get off for speeding, but so do their wives. I've dated this woman who was married (but separated) to a cop and she has a little badge of her own stating she's the wife of so and so cop. When she is pulled over she flashes the badge and they let her go. I've personally witnessed it several times. By the way, this was in Houston Texas 1996.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:52:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By Dukota: Wow, sound a little bitter? Maybe a change of careers is in order.
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not at all, i love my job. i also get a kick out of getting paid to go to court dealing with loophole seekers like above, he is the minority. personally, i encourage it, more court time for me, and in the end, always more fines. don't let this guy shit you into thinking you'll get away with this. maybe in the people's liberal republic of jersey, but not anywhere else.
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Ummm Let me think WRONG Works in Virginia Too. LIve by the sword die by the sword !
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:59:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By hielo:
Originally Posted By Fian:
Originally Posted By rkbar15: Since when is providing a defense at trial considered a "technicality"? If the judge validates it by dismissing the charge justice has been served.
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It depends on the defense. For example, saying your violation was due to a sign falling over is probably a better defense than saying the sign was a 1/2 inch too short. Of course it depends on what the statute said.
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If the pols write the laws that a sign has to be a set distance from the ground, that is in no way a technicality, it is called following the letter of the law. Oh, if only they would do that with the constitution....
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Yes, I wish they would do that with the Constitution. Regarding the law, it depends on what it says. If it just says it has to be a certain height and does not specify what would happen if this is not followed, the judges have some discretion. This is what I was getting at.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 7:08:42 PM EST
Secrets the Cops, the Courts, and the Insurance Companies Don't Want You to Know From [url=http://www.motorists.com/]NMA[/url] The purpose of insurance is to cover unusual risk. Since the act of exceeding an unreasonably low limit is hardly unusual or dangerous, the risk assumed by the insurance company is nearly non-existant. Therefore, any surcharges issued for speeding tickets are almost pure profit. The profits that an insurance company generates from speeding ticket surcharges allow them to purchase more radar and laser guns to give away free to law enforcement agencies. This allows the police to ticket more people, which in turn ensures a constant flow of revenue to the insurance company. The units will perform their revenue- enhancement duties for 3-5 years, having been paid for in less than one. Thousands of speeding tickets are issued by traffic law enforcers who don't know or care how to properly operate radar, VASCAR, or other speed-measurement devices. They are ignorant of proper operating procedures, performance characteristics, and common malfunctions or errors. Traffic ticket fines are the cash cow of the court system. No other class of "crime" is as profitable for state and local governments as is that of traffic tickets. Traffic courts cannot be fair and unbiased when their finanacial welfare depends on traffic fines. It is not true that writing more tickets will result in fewer accidents. A 1995 Memorial Day ticket-writing binge in Connecticut resulted in a 67% increase in accidents over the same time period in the previous year. The federal government paid $750,000 to the state for that. Many speed limits are deliberately set well below the prevailing speed of safely-driven vehicles. Doing so does not slow traffic but it does make a greater number of motorists eligible for a speeding ticket they don't deserve. There is no connection between receiving an occasional traffic ticket and the likelihood of being in an accident. Therefore, there is no justification for charging a person more for auto insurance just because they were convicted for a traffic violation. [red]cont .. [/red]
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